El Diablo In the Post

Discussion in 'D.C. United' started by CHICO13, Sep 7, 2002.

  1. CHICO13

    CHICO13 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Oct 4, 2001
    SECTION 135
    Club:
    The Strongest La Paz
    Nat'l Team:
    Bolivia
  2. Mason16

    Mason16 Member

    Apr 11, 2001
    South Florida
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Alot can be done with $500k in salary room. That's all I'm gonna say.
     
  3. MarioKempes

    MarioKempes Member+

    Real Madrid, DC United, anywhere Pulisic plays
    Aug 3, 2000
    Raleigh, NC
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    He's simply not worth $500,000. He used to be, but he is a mere shadow of his former self. Surely he can see this. I'm afraid he has to go.
     
  4. DigitalTron

    DigitalTron New Member

    Apr 4, 2001
    Arlington, VA
    Actually it isn't so simple. The league maximum salary is only 265k, which is all of the salary cap relief that United would receive. The remaining 235k is a set of endorsement deals that would leave with Etcheverry, and doesn't apply to the cap.

    For example, it's kinda like when Michael Jordan played at Chicago for a low salary to help the Bulls against the salary cap, but he still had his huge multimillion dollar Nike endorsement deal. When Michael retired, Nike didn't just give that endorsement deal over to his replacement, it left with Jordan.

    Etch is an icon, and had a tremendous following in Central and South America, and he generated a lot of interest in MLS when he came. He brought fans and he brought an advertising opportunity. This is not something that translates to some new guy.

    I'm not saying that 265k isn't a lot of salary cap room to work with, because obviuously it is huge for MLS, but it's not 500k either. The salary cap is 1.7M and unlikely to rise significantly if at all.

    Also, we're only speculating that Marco is making 500k with endorsements and that he counts 265k against the cap. It's possible that he only makes 200k against the cap ... we just cannot be certain because MLS doesn't release this stuff, and the players are great at keeping it all a secret.

    Unless it's a young upcoming guy from Central or South America, or a past-his-prime player in Europe, we're not likely to get a high quality replacement with that money. All of the Americans are currently accounted for, so barring a trade we're not going to fill the slot that way.

    My personal preference would be to move Convey into the center of the park and let Mapp patrol the left flank. Have Eliseo help out in both positions and use the salary slot for finishers. Between those three we should be able to get good attacking play from two positions.

    I said it before and I'll say it again, Etch will be offered a significantly lower contract ... but I bet he stays.

    -Tron
     
  5. Mason16

    Mason16 Member

    Apr 11, 2001
    South Florida
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Thanks for the clarification Tron. I love Etch and his towering contributions to the team's development but I feel he's not the etch of old and that's understandable. I like Convey in the center, Mapp out wide and Q2 as the back up. The center and forward spots are where the work is needed, and where the money should be spent.
     
  6. DCU

    DCU Member

    Feb 15, 1999
    Bay Area, CA
    Tron, for someone who's pointing out that we don't know how much Etch makes against the cap, you're making some dicey assumptions yourself. Yes, MAE doesn't count 500k against the cap, but the most logical assumption seems to be that he counts 265k. Also, there's no reason to believe that the rest of MAE's 500k comes from endorsements and not the league. What he makes in endorsements may go over and above the 500k.

    That said, goodbye goodbye goodbye Marco. I've been waiting 3 years for your sorry a$$ to leave. Let the door hit your fat butt on the way out.
     
  7. McOwen

    McOwen Member

    Jun 13, 2000
    Retirement Community
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    Pigs fly...

    How long will it take for people here to realize that Bobby Convey CANNOT play the role of playmaker on this team. Its pure fantasy!! Its not going to happen. Love or hate Marco, thats fine but lets not f-ing delude ourselves that we have anyone on THIS roster that can replace him.
     
  8. GUTuna

    GUTuna Member

    Mar 23, 2000
    Washington, DC USA
    Re: Pigs fly...

    At this point I really agree with you. Convey is a good left wing, especially with Olsen drawing attention on the right, but he's really never shown he can be a playmaker.

    If Etch wants to leave, we'd have to spend that money on another playmaker, or else we'll be in for another tough year.
     
  9. CHICO13

    CHICO13 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Oct 4, 2001
    SECTION 135
    Club:
    The Strongest La Paz
    Nat'l Team:
    Bolivia
    The only player I see stepping into that role is Jaime Moreno. He could do a great job there and we could use the money on a Tyson Nunez type player.
     
  10. JoeW

    JoeW New Member

    Apr 19, 2001
    Northern Virginia, USA
    First, as DigitalTron pointed out, MAE doesn't give us $500K in cap space if gone--only $265.

    Second, a salary cut still doesn't free up cap room. My understanding is that he was cut to $350K plus endorsements. plus encentives that could bring the contract up to $500K (as reported in the Post when he was signed in the offseason). So another cut might still put him above the league max.

    Third, the point someone else made about needing to replace Marco with someone outside the roster is accurate. I"m not prepared to give up on Convey as a playmaker. But be clear--he hasn't shown he can last a season, he didn't impress the past 2 years when placed in that role.

    Fourth, our cap issues are far more complicated than just dumping Etcheverry and adding a great finisher. About the only thing in our favor is that the transfer market is depressed, no-one is buying players, teams were counting on TV money they aren't getting, and there will be bargains to be had on free transfers. Other than that, we owe guys some pay increases (b/c they are no longer P-40 or simply b/c it is not realistic to ask someone to make $40K in DC and live on that salary, let alone support a family, if you're going to be serious about soccer). It's one thing if you're 1y, living in the Manager's basement or commuting from home and you've never had money before. But if we're going to be a good team, that isn't a 40 hour a week commitment. And asking adults with families to commit to this team and only make $30k-$40K without a modest increase to reward hard work and loyalty--sorry, that is something we can't do. Some of these guys could quit MLS, and through a combination of A-league and soccer clinics/camps, make more than they make with United. So if United loses Etcheverry, that doesn't mean we have $265K suddenly open. That slot goes to another playmaker. And if we lose Moreno, that slot goes to another striker. And the Amman cap money plus probably another player we'll cut goes to handle salary increases of one sort or another.
     
  11. Hedbal

    Hedbal Member+

    Jul 31, 2000
    DC
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The first question should be will next season's Etch be the playmaker to bring DCU back to its previous glory. If the answer to that question is "probably not," then by all means let's save whatever he counts against the cap, whether it's 265k or less. And Joe W is correct, much of that cap saving can and probably should go towards needed (and possibly even deserved) raises for current players. As for scouring the planet for a new AMid, we might have the best replacement here already: Jaime Moreno was terrific filling in for Etch some years back. He seemed to understand the position well, and he was as happy laying it off to someone in a threatening position as he was taking it in himself. If we used Jaime, we would have to find another forward, but we ought to know the market better than most teams by now.
     
  12. DigitalTron

    DigitalTron New Member

    Apr 4, 2001
    Arlington, VA
    Frankly, if Moreno's our Amid, then we're in trouble. I think Convey and Eliseo can do almost as good a job at far less salary. If we're stuck with Moreno's contract and he doesn't produce as a forward and Etch moves on, then yeah, it's a consideration, but IMHO it should not be plan A. Can he be a Nowak type on offense? Maybe, but not close enough to merit that salary IMHO.

    We need at least 2 more finishers of the highest caliber, and I think we'll need the salary slots of Williams, Etch and either Moreno or Prideaux to get them.

    Santino graduates from p40 next season, while Rimando and McKinley get raises. At best we'll get a 3rd forward (Nate Jaqua? Knox Cameron?) with the top pick in the SuperDraft. We need someone to pair with Santino up top, and another veteran to round out our finishers' stable. Currently we will have 4 high picks that will likely make the roster, but who knows, Ray still has time to trade em away. :( The remainder of our SuperDraft picks (after a finisher) will likely be defensive depth. Our 4th forward will likely be another veteran (Dante Washington?).

    -Tron
     
  13. Cweedchop

    Cweedchop Member+

    Mar 6, 2000
    Ellicott City, Md
    With the emergence of Edson Buddle at Columbus now, they will have a surplus of forwards in Cowtown (McBride, Buddle, Cunny and Dante) and a trade for a draft pick would not be the worst deal in the world for United at this point..

    Of course, as soon as Washington would arrive here (he is from Columbia, Md), he would instantly turn into shite and become one of the worst deals we would ever make knowing our luck these past 3 seasons...

    Tron, I'm not nearly as confident as you are in that Hudson will use or even have the draft picks around by the time next season rolls around..

    If you think Hudson loves his veteren players now (as attested by McKinley still getting playing time), wait till next season when he can bring in a whole slew of over-the-hill veterans and take away valuable playing time from Mapp and other young players..

    Don't be suprised if we don't have the #1 pick come SuperDraft time next February.... Ray's insistence on having experienced players will continue to stifle the development of what younger players we have left on this team...
     
  14. albionroad

    albionroad Member

    Aug 26, 2002
    Washington, DC
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Mapp played approximately 15 minutes this season, coming on a sub in the friendly against Boca Juniors. He showed nothing in that game. And now you're proposing to start him next season? He would get eaten alive in MLS. He's nowhere near ready to be a starter.
     
  15. Knave

    Knave Member+

    May 25, 1999
    That's not true. He also played the final 15 or 20 minutes of the first San Jose match too and acquitted himself quite well. He was no worse than Convey was when he was first sent into the mix. Mapp won't be eaten alive. He should be given lots of time in the last few games this year and then if he does well he should be given role in next year's lineup.
     
  16. albionroad

    albionroad Member

    Aug 26, 2002
    Washington, DC
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I don't care if Ray trades away all the draft picks, nor do I care if he brings in lots of experienced players. I want this team to win championships, not be a developmental squad. We've got four players in their teens on the team - that is plenty for me.
     
  17. albionroad

    albionroad Member

    Aug 26, 2002
    Washington, DC
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You're right, I had forgotten about that appearance. And you're right, he didn't play badly. But I still don't think he's ready for MLS. I don't think he would be as good as Convey is at that position, and I don't think Convey would be as good as Etch in central midfield. I think we would be even weaker than we were this season. I just don't think he's ready.

    I would send him to Richmond for a season where he can play every game. I think he would come back in 2004 as a much better player. I think he would improve and develop a lot faster than he would getting occasional minutes with United.
     
  18. Hedbal

    Hedbal Member+

    Jul 31, 2000
    DC
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I don't think Convey would be nearly as effective in the middle as he is outside. More importantly, neither apparently does Ray Hudson. Can somone dig up those less than flattering quotes from Ray after he tried Convey inside? I still think Jaime could do the job - mainly because I've seen him do it before. Jaime coming forward carrying the ball with Quarana and (some other guy) ahead of him could make for some goals. Also, the game wouldn't come to a complete stop when the ball is played to Jaime, as often happens nowadays when it goes to Etch.
     
  19. NewRevsFan

    NewRevsFan New Member

    Jun 4, 2002
    Maybe DC should go for APC?

    He's filled that role fairly well on our team a couple times and I think he's still got a lot of good play left in him. He just doesn't fit in with the Revs for some reason, probably only known to Nicol.
     
  20. MikeLastort2

    MikeLastort2 Member

    Mar 28, 2002
    Takoma Park, MD
    I hope that Moreno and Etcheverry are both gone next season.

    They've been my favorite DC United players since they've been here, but it's time for them both to go.
     
  21. Th4119

    Th4119 Member

    Jul 26, 2001
    Annandale, VA
    Thank you! Let the rest of the league develop their own talent. If we can bring in mid-30s veterans every 2 years and we keep on winning because they know what to do, then I'm all for it.

    Until the league has a full blown reserve system, wasting time on developing your own players is a joke.
     

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