Ecuador NT (Post-World Cup)

Discussion in 'Ecuador - National Team' started by LDU4ever, Nov 29, 2022.

  1. \^the king^/

    \^the king^/ Member

    Jul 4, 2007
    wherevr da action @
    Club:
    Liga de Quito
    This inflation is killing me man. Feels like everything increased by 35% since pre-covid.

    What a golazo by Enzo fernandez as I write this. Chelsea up 3-0.
     
  2. Primitive Ways

    Primitive Ways Member+

    Jan 30, 2009
    Florida
    Club:
    Barcelona Guayaquil
    Nat'l Team:
    Ecuador
    I’m listening at the moment. Did Moises get injured?


    Edit: I might be staying at my cousin’s place so that helps a lil but pricing is out of control.
     
  3. GPisco

    GPisco Member

    Jul 22, 2014
    Toronto, On
    Club:
    Barcelona Guayaquil
    Nat'l Team:
    Ecuador
    I agree with this on so many levels, I’ve said before that good tournament runs leads to more looks. The FEF is counting their chicks before the eggs have even hatched. Keep in mind If you take a look at how our youth teams have done this cycle across all competitions, the scenarios, and opponents we haven’t done anything special. Winning federations send their best regardless of restrictions.

    With that being said I have always been a firm believer that Kendry should’ve went to the U17WC and preolympic. Why because it builds character, leadership and the more times you are in finals the easier it becomes to play in one.
     
    LDU4ever repped this.
  4. \^the king^/

    \^the king^/ Member

    Jul 4, 2007
    wherevr da action @
    Club:
    Liga de Quito
    He looks like he picked up a knock, but he stood up and walked off the field on his own. He's actually still playing lol I thought he got subbed. Im watching in the background as I work
     
  5. GPisco

    GPisco Member

    Jul 22, 2014
    Toronto, On
    Club:
    Barcelona Guayaquil
    Nat'l Team:
    Ecuador
    I wanna see this game but the price is a hard turn off. Hope the tickets have a bad resale and they lower those prices, highly doubt it though. Has me worried about these Copa America prices
     
  6. The Machine

    The Machine Member

    Oct 19, 2009
    Club:
    Emelec Guayaquil
    Nat'l Team:
    Ecuador
    I don’t think he should have gone to the U17 WC. The senior NT comes first. As bad luck would have it the U17 WC and qualifiers overlapped. From a individualistic standpoint you can make the argument that Paez participating in the WC would have been better for his development. Short term and long term you can make the argument that Paez playing in the qualifiers was the better course of action. Would Ecuador have performed at the level they did without Paez? Who knows. He did help the team in the points that were obtained. This can be beneficial down the line when you take into account seeding and rankings.

    Keeping in mind a more long term perspective I’m okay with Paez not having gone to the Preolimpico. He’s only 16 years old. Mentally and physically he’s still developing. Look at what’s going on with Gavi. In the 2021/2022 and 2022/2023 seasons he played in over 50 games each between club and country. Not surprisingly he’s battled injuries this season. I think if this is the reason Bravo and FEF provided then I think most people would have understood. Instead the reason they provided generated more questions.
     
    GPisco repped this.
  7. Primitive Ways

    Primitive Ways Member+

    Jan 30, 2009
    Florida
    Club:
    Barcelona Guayaquil
    Nat'l Team:
    Ecuador
    I don’t get all the fuzz about not bringing Kendry. Let the other kids show their worth plus being too dependent on one guy is never good.
     
  8. GPisco

    GPisco Member

    Jul 22, 2014
    Toronto, On
    Club:
    Barcelona Guayaquil
    Nat'l Team:
    Ecuador
    I agree that the senior NT comes first, but I look it from the standpoint of do we really need to be starting Paez vs Venezuela and Chile. There will be many more games he will have an opportunity. Would Ecuador have played the same without him, the answer is we probably pick-up 2 draws that round. Would Ecuador still qualify, most likely. I am all for him on the senior NT but it feels like they are banking/depending on him to be the solution to all our problems.The NT needs to figure itself out while Paez develops and integrate him slowly, while he builds more and more connections with our other up and coming guys.

    While I will concede preolympic is not that necessary, I’m not asking him to play 90 minutes. But a good 20 minutes when and if the team needs him. But I get the need for IDV or clubs in general for not wanting to release players for these tournaments.

    But from the NT standpoint imo is that if Kendry goes to the U17WC we make a deep run, the other players not only show their worth but play a better brand of futbol. More eyes, more offers less “rumours” for our other guys, essentially a win win for everyone. Ecuador still qualifies to the WC regardless or results and maybe we have a nice U17 trophy at the end of it.
     
  9. LDU4ever

    LDU4ever Moderator
    Staff Member

    Liga de Quito
    Ecuador
    Nov 21, 2004
    Miami, FL
    Club:
    Liga de Quito
    Nat'l Team:
    Ecuador
    Yes- indeed. Plus, when you weigh out how other squads enter the tournament, this is as much about winning as it is about the "vitrina". They go hand in hand.

    And with all due respect, the logic to not bring Kendry, when we know in hindsight that we fail to qualify to the next round, means that it was a mistake. We cut our exposure by 1-2 extra games...worst of all, an invitation to play at the Olympics in one of the most watched sports of the entire event (alongside the gymnastics, swimming, cycling, and track). When you lose and get eliminated, it's a zero sum game. Would he have made a difference? Maybe. But we know that without him, we miss out.

    As was stated previously, winning teams stack their squads and enter matches going for their opponent's throats. I'm not sure if it's the Ecuadorian mentality to settle or if there's just a pervasive culture of losing, but the NT, the coaches, and even the players, don't enter games with sharp minds. It's the same reason why we go to participate in Copa Americas to test out tactics and players instead of trying to make deep runs in the bracket. When it goes down to the preolimpico, or U-level mundiales, which I'll concede are secondary-level tournaments compared to the senior-level engagements, we stumble, too. Something has to give. Resting Kendry, if anything, sets a bad precedent- we CHOOSE to forego glory for pragmatism. Winners don't do that, and they shouldn't accept that. As fans, we should be clamoring for success.

    If by some fluke, god forbid, Kendry hits the pitch for IDV this year and picks up a nasty injury, that complicates his entire career, too. Then what? He might've only played 2 games in a season and his whole career goes bust. Look at Pervis Estupiñan this year- he had a full offseason of training and played a handful of games early in the season before taking a several month break because he got injured. Any player that goes out to play risks their health, in theory, to perform...they can't be protected forever. Players in Europe who play at the highest level, especially in England, might play 50+ matches per season, but their bodies are conditioned to do that- and at Kendry's age, he's possesses the energy and the miracle of youth to recover quicker than any senior player ever could. Plus, they're watched over like hawks...from their training sessions, to recovery, diet, sleep, and mental health. It's the reason why the young prodigious talents in the world are valued so highly- their theoretical work rate and durability is significantly higher than someone in their mid-to-late 30s.

    The biggest miss is for those fringe players on the squad who could have ridden the coattails of the guys who were already getting looks (Obando, Vite, etc.). All it took was scoring 1 goal fed by a caliber player, or giving a nice look to someone who has the skill or acumen to finish (or at least embellish the rest of the play) that could be enough to trigger a scout to consider further analysis of the player (and his club team) for a possible transfer. Now, we'll probably only see the guys who were already getting attention being the only "successes" of the upcoming transfer window, but we knew there was so much more potential. Even if they were sleepers, if they managed to get on a better team with better resources and in more competitive leagues, they maybe turn into something way different.

    We ran a string of 3 reasonably decent games to then crucially drop-off right when it matters most When we have the power to control our own destiny, we turn into shrinking violets. It happens with our senior squad, and it seeps down into the youth teams, too. If the team stumbles, at least you can rest easier knowing that someone with different experience is there to TRY and give you a boost. Look at Maradona in 86...1 man basically singlehandedly won the WC for Argentina.
     
  10. javer

    javer Member

    Sep 11, 2012
    Club:
    Liga de Quito
    I think him missing the U17 WC was fine. The last games he played in the u20 he kinda hogged the ball at times. that team also got knocked out in r16. After debuting at senior level to go back to u17 I don't think would have sit well with him mentally. It's kinda a step back for him.




    The U23 though is a different story. I would have liked to see kendry there. This u23 should have weighted over any preseason friendlies. I was Kinda surprised Bravo was sent to coach too. I was kinda hoping Felix Sanchez would take the team. Would of been nice to see Felix play out a competitive tournament with the u23 nt since he has similar experience in Qatar and that helped him be successful there.
     
  11. The Machine

    The Machine Member

    Oct 19, 2009
    Club:
    Emelec Guayaquil
    Nat'l Team:
    Ecuador
    Marcelo Bielsa coached the Uruguay U23 squad. It would have been interesting to see Sanchez coach the squad. The tactics and formations would have been different. It would have looked something like this:

    Villa; Rangel, Garcia, Quińonez; Sanchez, Medina; Pluas, Ochoa, P. Mercado, Vite; Cuero
     
  12. Primitive Ways

    Primitive Ways Member+

    Jan 30, 2009
    Florida
    Club:
    Barcelona Guayaquil
    Nat'l Team:
    Ecuador
    You guys writing a book or something?
     
  13. The Machine

    The Machine Member

    Oct 19, 2009
    Club:
    Emelec Guayaquil
    Nat'l Team:
    Ecuador

    He’s the same agent that represents Moi, Estupińan, Paez, among others.
     
  14. LDU4ever

    LDU4ever Moderator
    Staff Member

    Liga de Quito
    Ecuador
    Nov 21, 2004
    Miami, FL
    Club:
    Liga de Quito
    Nat'l Team:
    Ecuador
    This is interesting. Good for him. Maybe this is enough of a push for Plata to shape up, sharpen his game, and move back to a competitive league where the best aspects of his talents can shine again. His talent is undeniable- it's the mindset, work ethic and durability which have always been my doubts.

    The kid also has an ego that is unfortunately so unbecoming...

    Quick anecdote- If you go watch the players train when they travel stateside, Moises Caicedo and Pervis Estupiñan will sign autographs all day. Enner, Arboleda, Dida, Mendez, Sarmiento, Ibarra (Renato), Mena, Estrada, Campana, Franco, Preciado, and some others will indulge the fans for as long as they're allowed or feel comfortable before getting absolutely swarmed. Plata and Hincapie, on the other hand, dash from the bus straight for the elevators. Not once have I ever seen them hang out with the fans. They barely make eye contact. Very similar to what Carlos Tenorio said about Plata at the casa de la seleccion. Evidence that Plata was mentally on the wrong path several years ago.
     
  15. The Machine

    The Machine Member

    Oct 19, 2009
    Club:
    Emelec Guayaquil
    Nat'l Team:
    Ecuador
    Plata is a very frustrating player. He’s one of the more talented players to have come out of Ecuador. He hasn’t gotten any better nor has his game evolved. He’s the same player we saw back in 2019. He also hasn’t worked on his physique. We always thought that his frame would fill out as he got older but that hasn’t happened. His work ethic is poor. If you look at his career there’s been red flags along the way. He had some problems when he was in Portugal. At that time we thought he was being treated unfairly and his coach had it out for him. He went to Spain and had some issues there as well. Then he chose to chase the money and went to Qatar. I don’t think he wants to get his career back on track. He’s probably miserable living in Qatar because it’s not the lifestyle he’s accustomed to living.

    As you said it’s all about mindset. That’s what separates Moi from other Ecuadorian players. Look at how he’s dealing with the adversity. He’s been heavily criticized this season. Other players would let the criticism crumble them. What did he choose to do though? He deleted his X account a week or two ago (probably to tune out the noise). He took the field and played well against Aston Villa. I have the utmost confidence he’ll turn it around and end being a good buy for Chelsea.

    Plata is still only 23 years old. He’s still very young. He has to figure it out though. There’s young players coming up that are looking to make a name for themselves.
     
  16. Primitive Ways

    Primitive Ways Member+

    Jan 30, 2009
    Florida
    Club:
    Barcelona Guayaquil
    Nat'l Team:
    Ecuador
    I completely forgot he existed for a sec.
     
  17. Primitive Ways

    Primitive Ways Member+

    Jan 30, 2009
    Florida
    Club:
    Barcelona Guayaquil
    Nat'l Team:
    Ecuador
    Everyone is different. I don’t think that proves anything. Some people get overwhelmed by being around too many people.
     
  18. Primitive Ways

    Primitive Ways Member+

    Jan 30, 2009
    Florida
    Club:
    Barcelona Guayaquil
    Nat'l Team:
    Ecuador
    Qatar are Asian champs. lol
     
  19. Primitive Ways

    Primitive Ways Member+

    Jan 30, 2009
    Florida
    Club:
    Barcelona Guayaquil
    Nat'l Team:
    Ecuador
    Piero had a nice pass a la Xavi. Could have been a gol.
     
  20. LDU4ever

    LDU4ever Moderator
    Staff Member

    Liga de Quito
    Ecuador
    Nov 21, 2004
    Miami, FL
    Club:
    Liga de Quito
    Nat'l Team:
    Ecuador
    He played a solid game today. That team is something special. I doubt Xabi lasts as coach after this season, and odds are several elements of that team get transferred when the season closes out. Rumors are that Hincapie does, too.

    That said, IF he stays, and if things hold up, he'll be on a title defending squad that will be playing CL ball next season. If he makes a move elsewhere, it better be a lateral move to a team who is slotted to play CL ball and compete for titles.

    Great game today.

    As for Brighton today- a pity to drop points in stoppage. That's gutting. Luckily, Pervis seemed to finish strong and his rating sat in the mid 7s by the time the final whistle was blown.
     
    Cris 09 repped this.
  21. Primitive Ways

    Primitive Ways Member+

    Jan 30, 2009
    Florida
    Club:
    Barcelona Guayaquil
    Nat'l Team:
    Ecuador
    I hope both of them move onto CL teams. It’s time to make the jump. IMO
     
  22. LDU4ever

    LDU4ever Moderator
    Staff Member

    Liga de Quito
    Ecuador
    Nov 21, 2004
    Miami, FL
    Club:
    Liga de Quito
    Nat'l Team:
    Ecuador
    Leverkusen will probably make it to the CL with or without a Bundesliga title- they're on fire. Considering their current accumulated points, they'd qualify for a direct berth to the CL by winning 4 more games. Seems very feasible. If Hincapie leaves, he'd need to go to a top-4 PL, La Liga, or Serie A squad to get anything as remotely competitive to the quality of play and difficulty of competition in the Bundesliga. They can also win the Europa and qualify directly to the CL.

    Pervis, on the other hand has 1 realistic path toward CL ball (though it's marred in uncertainty) and 1 logical avenue (contingent on him getting scouted properly) - Brighton can win the Europa League and qualify directly through that win, or he can transfer into a CL-qualifying squad. With the World Cup 2-years away, I'd hope Brighton and his agent consider again the quality of the receiving squad if there's an option for transfer- the only competitive leagues where he'd be challenged/can develop would be staying in the PL, going back to La Liga, or going to the Serie A. I doubt they scrape up enough points to qualify for a direct berth. Losing Moises and Macallister hurts them big time. Plus, they've been plagued with injuries.
     
  23. LDU4ever

    LDU4ever Moderator
    Staff Member

    Liga de Quito
    Ecuador
    Nov 21, 2004
    Miami, FL
    Club:
    Liga de Quito
    Nat'l Team:
    Ecuador
  24. Cris 09

    Cris 09 Trololololo

    Nov 30, 2004
    Westfalenstadion
    Club:
    Borussia Dortmund
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    Leverkusen will win the title. They won't collapse like BVB did and Bayern under Tuchel are a mess. I do not think Bayern will fire a manager mid season for a second consecutive time.
     
    LDU4ever repped this.
  25. Primitive Ways

    Primitive Ways Member+

    Jan 30, 2009
    Florida
    Club:
    Barcelona Guayaquil
    Nat'l Team:
    Ecuador

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