Hmmm, I don't know. I thought it was a pretty nice attack an a very nice over the ground cross from TFM. I saw him make 1 weird back pass that ended up totally behind a fellow player. Other than that, he was proper. It is great to see him make such big steps. Really waiting for some big talents in the Netherlands breaking through.
TFM did an awesome sliding clearance of a low-driven cross with his body face the empty net. If he missed, it would have been an easy tap-in for the opposing player, and it could have been easily an own-goal if he didn't control it right. I am really excited to see him progressing in the coming years, although too bad that the managerial uncertainty at M.U this summer may/can halt his progress.
No, you donot get what I mean. I'm not talking about Eriksen like playing experience, but about the things that are typical Dutch you learn from 12 years on to 23, the formative years and that isnot part of the culture of those foreign clubs. You are wrong about coaches settling for mediocre players when they can get better ones. Coaches like ten Hag and Jans donot have the luxury to pick the best, but manage to play the Dutch way with lower classified players.
I got what you mean, the Eriksen example was just to say it's useless to stay too long in the Eredivisie, but I answered your point on the dutch print at the beginning of my message. What's the dutch print today ? If we had to judge by Ajax, PSV, Jong Oranje and the NT, it would be that boring slow passing. I don't think Ajax or PSV or Feyenoord are teaching something sooo good in their formation centers and even after. Or at least I don't see it. Some sub eredivisie clubs trainers are trying to play good football, yeah, but they don't have any influence on dutch football in general. What the dutch federation wants is what we see at its elite. I know a lot of people worry everytime a dutch teenager (14-17) signs for a big european club but seriously...After all Bruma is one the dutch CB now (if not the best), Van Aanholt is a decent PL player, Rekik has some good potential, TFM is starting games with Manchester...You can even consider Ozyakup even if he didn't chose to reprezent Holland, he is doing absolutly great with Besiktas and might leave for a better club. How to know what these players would be if they stayed in the Eredivisie ? Maybe TFM would be on the bench watching Van der Hoorn playing... So yeah maybe they never learned the dutch spirit, but they're doing pretty good.
You either was dormant the last three years or ignored what I wrote about Bruma. A lot of stupid defending in Germany and the first two seasons in the Eredivisie, proving how highly talented kids gone early learned nothing abroad. Only after two years work by the PSV staff and the mature Mexican players Moreno and Guardado he finally shows why he was seen as a big talent when snatched up by Chelsea, I recently wrote I can stop mocking him. So donot come up with this kind of blatant shit that is simply untrue. Bruma learned nothing at Chelsea and Hamburg and it took him two years of Eredivisie grooming to teach him how to play. Remember Castaignos, who left for Italy at 18? Learned nothing there and came back worse than when he went abroad. Do you have any young Dutch player that went abroad at 18 that is a proof of your stance? We all here are very curious, because up till now we have seen none.
The attack was beautiful but Coleman shouldve defended Martial better and not let him get off a shot. Oh well, I'm not complaining though. Happy for Mensah he did something useful
You really believe that playing few months with Moreno and one season with Guardado made him to have the great season he is having ? You're really naive then. He also had some experienced players to learn from with HSV : Westermann, Janssen, Van der Vaart...Was training with a lot of great players with Chelsea... The reason why he suddenly became another player this season with PSV is because he gained experience, that's all. He was too young and not good enough for Chelsea, played in a terrible environnement with HSV where he would sit a lot on the bench, and then he came to PSV and was directly given a starting spot. After playing like 60 games with Rekik and Isimat and teaching them more than the opposite, he took a lot of confidence. He could play those 60 games in the belgian, turkish or portuguese league , he would probably progress as well. What about Vlaar that has been always considered shit until the season 2010/2011 ? Who did he suddenly learn from to become another defender ? No one. He just arrived at the age (25-26) where a lot of average CB's take another level thanks to their experience, playing constantly 30 games a season and being like bosses in a weak league. Bruma is having exactly the same and it's time for him to leave the Eredivisie again. Cause that's the whole point, none of Bruma or Vlaar are very talented players. If you're a very talented defender, you can start in a big club at the age of 19/20. Both are initially average defenders with a certain potential that progressed with experience, and there are a lot of players like those in every league. No because there are no real talent in the last dutch generations...That's what I agreed with Rinus about : If a dutch player is very talented, he will play with a big club even if he is only 18,19,20. No need to have a dutch print that doesn't even exist now. I can give you like 30 names of spanish, german, brazilian players that played with big clubs recently at that age. Castaignos failed because he plays like a horse. His ball control is just shit and he could stay 4 years more in the Eredivisie and learn as much as he could from the dutch spirit, he'll still have that shitty ball control. Some things don't really change with time and experience. That's why some people are concerned about Depay and his first poor touch.
Show me a big club that did play with a talented CB at 18 years old? The point you donot get or stubbournly want to ignore is that the big clubs are in a title race and not in the development/getting talents get experience mode. So talents donot get playing time, hence the waste of Bruma being at Chelsea. If he learned so much from training against top strikers like Drogba, why was he for years shit? And donot come with the "Bruma wasnot talented at all shit" ( the same goes for Vlaar, who was at 18 hailed as a big defensive talent), unless you claim Chelsea and other EPL clubs did send their scouts over to watch our academy players just for window dressing. But you dop the bomb on your way of reasoning yourself by claiming Bruma got better because of added experience. Where did he get that added experience? Over here plus proper coaching. So you yourself provide the main reason why a young player must stay here and gain experience instead of rotting away on a bench (if he gets there anyway). With every extra post on this matter you fall flat on your face.
John Terry got his first Chelsea start as an 18 year old but it was as a 20 year old that he established himself. Paolo Maldini started at Milan as a 16 year old but as a left back. He didn't move into the middle of the defense for some years. Heitinga was 18 years old when he broke into Ajax and was on the NT for several international competitions. I'm sure there are other examples.
Bruma has never been considered a great talent with the Chelsea youth team, there were players above him. I didn't say he wasn't talented at all, I sad he was average with a good potential, but in any case not good enough to make it with Chelsea at the age of 18,19,20...The fact Chelsea signs a foreign teenager doesn't mean they see a super talented player in him, don't forget they sign 37 young players every year. CB's that started games with big clubs while being 18,19,20 last years... : Varane, Nastasic, Marquinhos, Zouma, Gimenez...Those come to my mind now, but there are problably more. Anyway playing 30 games a season for a CB at that age is very hard in a big club, I give you this point, but starting 10/15 games at that age and 30 games the years after is very possible and is better than staying in the Eredivisie. Plus this is true for CB's, cause that spot require experience, now if you want midfielders or strikers that start 20/30 games a season while being 18,19,20, I can give you a long list. That's where you don't see the shade. Playing 30 games with PSV is a way better than starting 0 game with Chelsea and rotting on a bench or with the B team like Bruma was doing, I think we all agree on this. But a CB playing 15 games with a big club or 30 with PSV, what do you chose ? I go for the first one, if a guy is able to start 15 games with a big club at that age, you're almost certain to have a guarantee on his talent and progression. For the Eredivisie there's no guarantee even when a youngster play 30 games, Van Beek might sign for Watford it wouldn't even surprise me. And once again, I give you the number of 15 games for CB's. A young talented full back, midfielder or striker can start 25 or 30 games with a big club.
PSV and Ajax play 6 to 12 European games a year which largely offsets the advantage of a club in one of the top leagues. Also the better teams in top leagues rarely use young players in the more important games if they don't have to. I doubt a young player will learn that much going up against the likes of Watford, Grenada or Hannover with a vastly superior team.
Have you seen the performance of Ziyech last Saturday ? Unbelievable. This is the original sin of Blind , an unpardonable sin. I may be exaggerating , but Ziyech seems better than Sneijder and Van der Vaart . He is much more creative and unpredictable. I hope that this scenario will not be repeated with Ake and Fosu -Mensah . It would be tragic . They should be called to the national team to avoid unpleasant surprises. Germans, Spaniards or the French would have done so. That's a real problem for the Dutch soccer : Most of our young talents have dual nationality. Better to appoint a technical director of the national team as Oliver Bierhoff in Germany. Mo Allach seems to be an ideal profile to fill this role .
I was very upset with how they handled the whole Ziyech situation -- especially since it was clear he was already ready to step in and be our most creative midfielder.
Very happy Blind outed a traitor. Rather not qualify for 5 next tournaments than playing with such a fake. Next.
Ziyech didn't play with Morocco last games cause the coach prefered Belhanda and Boussoufa... Ziyech will never reach the heights of Sneijder's career and he won't be as good as VDV neither. The best he can reach is a starting spot in a club like Schalke, Valencia or Tottenham I guess.
Hmm we'll see. He struggled to adapt to the African play. But Yaya Toure has the same problems , Feghouli and Brahimi also . There are a lot of African players who perform feats in Europe and are ghostly in Africa. Even George Weah . The Algerians , for example, played better in the last World Cup that at the last Can. This is an important parameter to be reckoned with . Personally, I see Ziyech evolve at the highest level .
I'm kinda excited for Blind and TFM at ManU, no idea what will happen next season or if LVG stays there, but both of them actually have played really well in that system. Blind has been solid throughout, never i dont think below average. He handles strength based opponents really well, but struggles against pace in my opinion. But then again, which defender doesnt? And for the seemingly obligatory mention of Ziyech in this thread which he doesnt even qualify to be mentioned here, hope he does well, good player, lets move on now... Had long enough a mourning period, now you are just being drama queens imo.
Hopefully by this time next year we will all be talking about someone other than ziyech. TFM is looking like an interesting prospect he already plays a t a higher level than bazoer so it will be interesting to see when he is considered for inclusion in the main squad as well as how he progresses next season
Just curious here how can this be when he has has been scoring at every level. Have you watched any of his games at Eintracht Frankfurt
He only scored in Eredivisie He is a mediocre striker but I've always said he could be a NT material in the current mediocre team. If you call Narsingh, Castaignos should be called as well.