This is semi rewarding Mexico for losing in the Gold Cup semis. The US showed up in 2013 and 2017 to the final.
Don't mean to single out your post, since this is a common attitude around here, but I feel it's a bit of a naive perception of why we are losing this battle with some of these kids. Ochoa's piece was very insightful and people are still choosing to hand-wave it or not take many things he says at face value. It's one thing to hate your rival, but you must also have enough knowledge to respect them. Mexico has a much older football culture that has sustained a good level and had a quality league for years and produced internationally-recognized great players. So there is history, culture and a legacy there that fans love and want to be part; not just sheer patriotism or people loving the team because it's the best in the region, which is a very American way of perceiving and appreciating the game. Unlike craven American fans who can't even stand their own league and shit-talks its own legendary players, Mexicans will not desert the team they grew up watching with their families because it seems to be declining. If anything, players like Ochoa will support the team now more than ever if they felt the team they loved was truly declining in regional status. Isn't that what all of you would do with the USMNT? To really make inroads here, you'd have to infuse more Mexican / Latin football culture into the USMNT at every level. That may or may not be something the USSF decides to do (though it's not a bad idea to leverage some of the benefits I mentioned above). But it's not a simple undertaking.
Like, is it really that hard to put yourselves in the shoes of immigrants or first generation dual nationals? If you had to relocate to Canada, you wouldn't stop supporting the USMNT. You wouldn't stop hoping that your kid (if they show any talent) goes to play for the USMNT. So why would we expect Mexicans to behave differently? Also, can we stop conflating the USMNT with USA, the country? I know many proud Americans who passionately support Mexico because that's the soccer team they grew up watching and supporting. Not wanting to play for the USMNT is not a rejection of America, being American or patriotism.
I spent 30 years in corporate recruiting and there isn't any pushback to providing outreach to certain communities. This is mostly a recruitment effort, so I wouldn't have any concern about USSF providing some Spanish language assistance to those that need it. If players (or really in this conversation, the parents) need translation help, regardless of the language, USSF should provide it. But building in Spanish into the process, which is the 2nd most spoken language in the US (and one where the bulk of our "defectors" are coming) would be vital going forward.
Sorry but you don't get to tell me how I feel about this. I want players who are committed to the US. End of story.
If you read my other posts in the topic you would see that I'm very sympathetic to the dual nats but also think it's a waste to worry too much about kids who are cradle El Tri Fans. I say we need to be bilingual to better capture all the Spanish speaking folks and just win. Mexicans aren't the only Spanish speaking immigrants in the US.
US the country or US the soccer team? Those are different things. You can be a pretty good USMNT player without ever making any real meaningful commitment to US the country.
Old school. I think wearing the kit of the US (soccer or any other sport) is an honor to represent the USA. If you are doing it for some other reason then I'd just rather you didn't.
What proof do you have that USSF do not have translators or spanish-speaking leadership to communicate with the families of youth players?
Really, it will probably the 3rd generation Americans who feel detached enough from Junior to aspire to want to be like the US players of their youth rather than the Junior stars their grandparents talk about. There is no “solution” to the issue, and if the player wants to play for Mexico because of their cultural ties is that a problem for the US? I’d say there’s really not much that can be done in those circumstances. You just wish them luck.
I see many folks outlining the specifications of a problem that doesn’t seem to exist. Is there a problem? What are the components of the problem? If we say that there is no “outreach” to spanish speakers, but there is outreach to spanish speakers, then is that really the problem?
It's just a tough situation with no easy answers. Ochoa talks about how he liked being with the U-20s, since other Mexican-Americans, like Llanez and Mendez, were in the squad. And then says he didn't feel as comfortable at the NL camp, because he was the only Mexican-American there. But what are Berhalter and the USSF supposed to do there? You aren't going to call up undeserving Mexican-Americans just to make your 20-year-old 3rd GK feel more comfortable in camp. And you aren't going to make everything bilingual either for the sake of that one guy who also speaks perfectly good English. I think it will take a cultural shift at the younger levels to have more Hispanic players and coaches involved. At the USMNT level, I think we need a breakout Mexican-American star to pick the US and make it cool, or at least more acceptable, to do so. Not saying that he necessarily should be, but, say, if Pepi is our starting striker in Qatar, scores some goals, and gets a nice Euro move, I'd bet that goes a long way to making the guys at the U-15/U-17 level feel better about picking the US.
I partially agree. I don't think the best recruiting effort will win over hard core El Tri fans. I also don't think USSF is doing the best job of expanding the pool. I personally feel that every skinny running back/slot receiver and short point guard is a cultural failing You miss 100% of the shots you don't take as the cliche goes.
If someone grows up idolizing El Tri and El Tri offers them a shot at the roster and they take it, is there anything that US Soccer can do? They are already doing all of that. They are inviting these players into national team camps and rosters for crying out loud. Several of these players are even given caps! They are already doing everything within their power to do. They are going above and beyond. Caps. National team caps. There is nothing higher they can give. Its the ultimate honor and respect. They are also holding back on predatory cap-tying players, which is even more respectful. When these guys get older they’ll understand all that. At some point you have to just say: “we literally rolled out the red carpet for you, but…good luck out there.” People keep saying its a problem with US Soccer, but its not. Its not even a problem at all. Some people would just prefer to play for Mexico, and that’s fine. We may wish they wanted to play for our team, but that’s their prerogative and their life and their family. It may be disappointing for us, but It’s not a problem that needs to be “fixed” even if USSF had the ability to “fix” a problem like that.
Yes…please excuse any tangential off-the-cuff diatribes at this time. I am just coming out of COVID isolation.
Completely agree with all of this. People genuinely like to get worked up about duals (I mean this is a message board) and in particular (given the rivalry) Mexican-American duals. If you asked me to grade 1-100 on how our fed is doing in terms of strategy and effort with duals, I’d give something like a 95. They’re really in touch with a huge amount of players and have uncovered kids under rocks and gotten them involved early. Could the USSF do *even more* here — I mean you always can improve anything. But this isn’t something I’m worried about whatsoever as they’ve proven to really care and go all out.
boooo That is silly, and this shouldn't be about the law, anyway. Speaking to someone in their language is not "providing a service," and it's not something that isn't offered to others, when possible. All people should feel welcome and have access to the game in the US. That's the bottom line. Do whatever it takes to make it happen, even at the top with the national teams.
If you hire someone with the intent of speaking a supplemental language, then it is providing a service. If the goal is to communicate with parents of youth players, then it is providing a service. A quick glance across the roster shows a need for multiple languages including German, Castilian Spanish, Dutch, Italian, Portuguese, Swahili, French, etc.
blah, blah, blah. There is no goal other than making people feel welcome and giving them access to the game. The game is the service, not the normal communication that happens between all people all the time.... If it were, they could be sued for having a twitter account because it would be "catering to those who have the app."
I dont fault anybody who wants to play for a different national team. Whether it's because they feel connected to that country or they see it as their best way to the World Cup. It's about how you handle things. I don't doubt Ochoa or Aruajo have strong connections to El Tri justice I don't doubt both see that they have easier paths to playing international soccer that way. I do think I'm different ways both have done little things that show a bit of entitlement... more so Ochoa than Aruajo... though I will admit that Aruajo and Uly's Dada both complaining when they were either on the reserves or just breaking into first team action about Berhalter not recruiting their kids did rub me the wrong way. But that's a different story. The issue I have is the narrative that the US is struggling to get Mexican Americans where we have gotten several to commit to us for the 2010, 2014, and 2018 cycles (even if they didn't pan out), and the fact that we are a nation filled with dual nationals. That's not a disrespect to the Mexican culture either as again if someone wants to play for Mexico they want to play for Mexico. I just think it's an unnecessary criticism of the USSF when there are more valid criticisms to be made
Looks like GGG is making a last ditch effort to keep JA in the program. Source is questionable, but they are correct that they were the first to report JA switching to Mexico. Will be interesting to see how this will play out.
I get it, which is why I make this distinction about team vs. country. For example, allow me to play devil's advocate: why should a player think it's an honor to represent the USA in soccer? Is it because the US has an impressive legacy of achievements, or a history of legendary players? We don't, frankly, even compared to NTs like Mexico let alone, say Germany or Netherlands where we have dual nationals. Or just because representing the USA is an honor in itself, more so than any other country?