Maybe you should look at Romarios deeper stats in the 94 world cup An ATG centre forward he was but certainly not in the 94 world cup Not against the semi professional players of the USA and definitely not against Italy While you're at it you can look at the deeper stats of Sergio ramos https://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/spa...0-world-cup-castrol-index/blt799d421a96ba9a06 Brazil 94>Netherlands 12 is based on nothing Older isn't by default better then new (in fact most of the time it really isn't at all)
You didn't answer the question about the match in question. You just told me to look up stats. For sake of argument, ignore all things but the eye test and explain how this performance is on par with Baresi vs Brazil.Because it seems like a huge leap with no substantiation or reasoning.
How many defensive actions did baresi have according to your calculations Any last man tackles? I haven't watched it in a while but i seem to remember alot of clearances That Italian defence in 94 was a bit overrated tbh They were completely humiliated for 90 mins by a player who wasnt even shortlisted for the 94 ballon dor 15 - On this date in USA'94, Jay Jay Okocha 🇳🇬 (vs 🇮🇹) became the player with the most dribbles completed in a single @FIFAWorldCup match (15), overtaking Paul Gascoigne 🏴 (13 vs 🇨🇲 in 1990) and Jairzinho 🇧🇷 (13 vs 🇺🇾 in 1970). Opta collect this data from 1966.Jugglers. 🤹 pic.twitter.com/qB99JgnIlF— OptaJose (@OptaJose) July 5, 2022 Saved by roberto baggio many times in the KO stages against teams that were vastly inferior to them(on paper) There is also a context to the performance of Ramos He was part of a backline that conceded an all time low 2 goals in a single world cup edition He didnt just turnt up for a single game
I'm actually watching the 2010 WC Final over again now. Ramos starts brightly on the offensive end of the pitch with a good header saved by Stekelenberg and then beating Kuyt on the wing and crossing in a dangerous ball. He also made some mistakes like dribbling the ball straight out of bounds on a counter attack and picking up a needless caution. Defensively he just isn't asked to do too much. Robben is on the opposite flank and Van Persie is frustrated by Puyol and Pique in the middle. Sneijder not really in his vicinity and the Netherlands not managing to put together any great passing moves yet. TBH its a scrappy match without much flow. I'm not questioning Ramos' ability or status. Ramos at RB in 2010 I just don't think is comparable to Baresi as sweeper in the first place, but I will definitely double down on my statement that Baresi vs Brazil is the better performance and rightly deserving of its status as one of the all-time great defensive performances in a World Cup. Ramos' performance in 2010 is very good without being legendary. I reckon between 3 and 5 vital last-ditch defensive actions (tackle, block, or clearance). Expert reading of the game with many interceptions and counter attacks started. Above average distribution. Baresi didn't play the '94 World Cup apart from the first and last games due to an injury in the opening match which required surgery. He was never expected to return to the tournament but somehow managed to recover and was selected by Sacchi for the final despite this.
2009/10 the greatest year of the modern era Or at least incomprehensibly greater than what is on offer today Benzema was the best player in la liga 2021/22 but would’ve been 7th best in la liga 2009/10 and he would’ve been outside the top 10 highest rated players in Europe had he registered his 2021/22 statistics back in 2009/10 Virgil Van Dijk PL 2018/19 So called best defender of his generation is just another player who benefitted from playing a weak transitional era This guy would’ve been a regular WC defender in 2009/10 1.)Lucio 2009/10 Serie A Whoscored rating 7.76 https://www.whoscored.com/Players/460/History/Lúcio 2.)Sergio Ramos 2009/10 La Liga Whoscored rating 7.71 https://www.whoscored.com/Players/9909/History/Sergio-Ramos 3.)Maicon Serie A 2009/19 Whoscored rating 7.71 https://www.whoscored.com/Players/8007/History/Maicon 4.)Glen Johnson Premier league 2009/10 Whoscored rating 7.61 5.)Nemanja vidic 2009/10 PL Whoscored rating 7.59 https://www.whoscored.com/Players/9685/History/Nemanja-Vidic 6.)Naldo Bundesliga 2009/10 Whoscored rating 7.59 https://www.whoscored.com/Players/14172/History/Naldo 7.)Giorgio cheillini Serie A 2009/10 Whoscored rating 7.58 https://www.whoscored.com/Players/9991/History/Giorgio-Chiellini 8.)Micheal Dawson Premier league 2009/10 Whoscored rating 7.58 https://www.whoscored.com/Regions/2...erStatistics/England-Premier-League-2009-2010 9.)Koscielny Ligue 1 2009/10 Whoscored rating 7.57 https://www.whoscored.com/Regions/7...099/PlayerStatistics/France-Ligue-1-2009-2010 10.)Alessandro Nesta Serie A 2009/10 Whoscored rating 7.47 https://www.whoscored.com/Players/500/History/Alessandro-Nesta 11.)Branislav ivanovic Premier league 2009/10 Whoscored rating 7.47 https://www.whoscored.com/Players/15338/History/Branislav-Ivanovic 12.)Thiago Silva Serie A 2009/10 Whoscored rating 7.44 https://www.whoscored.com/Players/28550/History/Thiago-Silva 12.)Virgil Van Dijk Premier league 2018/19 Whoscored rating 7.44 https://www.whoscored.com/Players/95408/History/Virgil-van-Dijk Joint 12th highest rated defender if he registered his overrated and inflated 2018/19 performances back in 2009/10 Even Kylian Mbappe(any season) looks like a regular top 10 player back in those seasons instead of the ATG in the making he supposedly is Haaland back then would be looked at like Mario Gomez A little bit better but there is nothing in it
The highest rated CBs by the WS algorithm are those of the most defensively reliable teams because they tend to have a higher number of tackles, clearances and interceptions. VVD's game was like Maldini's. It involved much more anticipation and game reading. You're probably tired of hearing the Maldini's quote "if I have to go for a tackle, then I've already made a mistake". And he turned one of the best (if not the best) defender of all times this way. I think VvD 2019 has the best calendar year for a CB in this century. It's a shame his prime only lasted 3 seasons (17/18 to 19/20)
Whoscored is better and closer to the ‘truth’ than any and everybody on this forum combined saying “I think this and I think that”
So let's consider Pinnock and Schär the best CBs in the Premier League this season because they had the highest ws rating among CBs. Who am I to say that "I think" Stones and Dias were better.
Because you can hack him down without any risk for punishment. See also Hazard in recent times or what Tyrone Mings did to Gakpo (an assault worse than Nigel on Xabi Alonso). Carlito86 is not taking his highest rated season in WhoScored. That is 7.56 in 2015-16. That bumps him up to the podium for EPL. As an aside, for 2022-23 (!!!) we have the 'wins above replacement' estimates (with thanks to the link Tropeiro posted). That is 7.61 wins above replacement. A gap of 1.30 above the 2nd best Premier League defender with at least 2000 minutes played. I have said this so many times but Maldini actually made about 4 tackles per game. And had (also) his seasons where his team finished 11th and e.g. Desailly played clearly better than him (with all due respect for his entire career).
"...the one-club man, 47 — who spent his entire career at AC Milan — averaged only 0.56 challenges per game during his career." https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/foot...-so-good-he-didnt-even-need-to-make-a-tackle/
Almost certainly false. Based on the World Cup where we have reliable numbers from Opta, Puck is right.
Well, that's not verifiable (at Milan). But I doubt a journalist from TheSun would base his entire article on a false statistic.
Are you familiar with the Sun? It is known in this country to be the undisputed king of fake news and sensationalist headlines
Given no one was even collecting data during large parts of Maldini's career, this is one of those made up stats like Zidane never being caught offside.FWIW, at World Cup (23 games) he averaged 3.9 tackles/match.In Serie A from 2004 to 2009, it was 2.5 per game. https://t.co/Jup0EVlllz— Orbinho (@Orbinho) May 25, 2019 As for the seasons (closer to) his prime; that takes more than 30 seconds to search but I'm sure it was about 4 per game. After all, the 2004 to 2009 period also includes 15 *prematurely* ended league games (of 112 in total). It is per game, not per 90. The sport was in general more 'tackle heavy' for defenders than it was closer to the end of his career (which can be proven). edit: I mean 4 attempted tackles, not the successful ones (and yes, his competence was above the average for that level of the sport).
Well, I'm Brazilian so I'm not familiar with TheSun. All I know is that it's a very well-known British newspaper. But my point still stands. VvD is not rated as high because he uses a proactive approach in his anticipation game which causes his number of tackles to decrease considerably compared to other types of CBs. And as I've illustrated (Compared to Stones and Dias with the two highest Premier League CB ratings), the highest rated CBs are almost always the ones from teams that are weaker defensively because they tend to have an even higher number of tackles. The arrival of VVD completely raised Liverpool's level defensively and made the full-backs rise much higher for the confidence he gave back there.
Yet his WS rating is perenially among the better Liverpool players (or well into top 10 of the entire league, like in 2015-16). Even in 2022-23 it is 4th of his team, behind Salah, TAA and Gakpo (excluding Luis Diaz, who didn't play as much). And was one of the few defenders to get the better of Haaland in a single game. Same for the often maligned FDJ at Barcelona (2nd of his team in 2022-23). Anyway, he is almost 32 now, certainly too often used and past some injuries. His best window was 2017-2022 it seems (esp. in a team not sitting back, even though Liverpool was never consistently on the front foot). With really a tiny bit more luck he had three league medals and 3 CLs by now.
+ (In addition) On a per 90 minutes rate Thiago Silva is slightly ahead, but not cumulative. Somehow Silva his quality/value on the ball is not rated as such.
I could be wrong, but didn't WS change the way their ratings are calculated a couple of times in the past 10 years?
DP: Has the WS method been updated based on stat trends, and are these changes reflected retroactively? CA: We have, and will plan a new update for next season https://medium.com/@dannypage/q-a-about-whoscored-ratings-160eebbbbccf As an aside, in carlito his heralded 2009-10 a certain Van Persie was 3rd (almost 2nd) of the Premier League (until 2013 always in the top three of WS algorithm). But that is something the usual suspects (carlito, the contemptious alliance) will gloss over when it seems fit. See also my Makaay example in the other thread (no other chart topper is rated anywhere near as low, except... other compatriots who came close). Anyway, it is indeed true that Benzema his (league!!) score cannot be directly compared to 2009-10. And just by his league form it is also doubtful whether he had ran away with the Ballon d'Or.
I've literally always been Pro Robin Van persie this is hilarious What alliance am I part of Puckvanheel remains undefeated as the king of conspiracy theories
The only player you have always been 'pro' of is Cristiano. But back to the main point: 1) the WS algorithm did change more than once 2) Benzema his league form was sufficient rather than by itself enough for the Ballon d’Or (it is not like the Golden Boot wins you the BdO by default). We are an easy target and scapegoat for something like The Athletic. That's almost a fact. They will not pick and alienate a big market for their villianization purposes. Stories need (credible; 'overperforming relative to fanbase'?) bad guys or something to mock about. Hence the wokist lhbt-clowns as Crafton and Robertson perenially sniping at us.