That is true. There is no need to put down C.Ronaldo in order to appreciate Messi's greatness. Ronaldo is also a great talent who's played at a high level, especially at ManU, but also at Real Madrid so far. It will also be interesting to see how high he takes his game at the World Cup and over the next few years. I think there's a lot of young talent now, more than we've had in the past few years. It should be a great World Cup. Lets enjoy it.
I'm in agreement with the sentiments that Messi doesn't NEED a great World Cup, but having a great tournament would certainly help make the case that he'll be legendary.
Well, he still have a Copa America. Despite not having a notable international record and career (worth to say though that he was not given the same amount of opportunities as many other all-time greats at that level), he was always considered the main competitor against Pele's greatness before the emergence of Maradona, because he was considered having something that no one else in the history of the game possessed in the same amount: being the total footballer. All that, besides, of course, his legendary successes for Real Madrid. Messi, on the other hand, will very likely have much more opportunities at NT level, and that's way his eventual failure at that level will not be tolerated, in my opinion, as it's the case with Alfredo, who for many years didn't have a NT to play at all.
The bold part is something I would agree with. The media is constantly putting Leo on hard pressure and is practically saying that winning a WC is a must for him. That's not fair. To me, it's much more important playing on a very high level in the WC and demonstrate the ability to carry on your shoulders your team, than just win the competition while having an average impact on the win. Cruyff is a good example of this. He didn't win the cup either, but he played at a immensely high level and his overall performance there is yet to be surpassed by the future players. Even by not having the trophy, the Dutch is for many part of the most elite pantheon of greats. The same goes with Messi, I would say.
I repeat. Legends take at least 3 World Cups (or NT continental tournaments) to establish themselves as such. Messi is for sure on the way to become a legend. He still needs though a very good World Cup for that (not necessarilly with the title), i.e., he needs to be brilliant at least up to a quarterfinal. If by any chance it doesn't happen now he'll have at least 2 other Cups & several Copa America's to prove it. But we'll have to wait to see the brilliance that we see in Barcelona happen at NT level. Something that hasn't happened yet. I don't know of legends who never excelled for their NT's (even without conquering titles). I think Messi has everything to at least start achieving that status right now in South Africa. But that still belongs to the future.
Do we produce legends anymore? According to the media, that is a big YES. apparently every player that is currently the best in the world these days will one day soon be as great as Pele, Garrincha, and Maradona
Best, Kubala, Spencer. Although it's fair to say that their NT sucked (or did not have any, in Kubala's case).
Precisely. We are dealing here mostly with traditional strong football nations. It wasn't the case of Best & Spencer. Kubala though played for Spain between 53 & 61. In general there is no way out. In order to be firmly established as 'legends' 99% of the candidates to world 'gods' have to shine in at least one or two (preferrably three) important international tournaments involving NTs. And in football they've traditionally been: the Copa America, the EuroCup & the World Cup.
Yeah, But either you suceed or not they are the most remembered. See Zico's case who successfully commanded the world's best football team of the late 70's/early 80's for hundreds of games & is despised to our days because 'didn't carry Brazil to victory' in the few games of 78, 82 & 86.
What did Ronaldinho accomplished with all his talent? An I am talking about World Cup, Euro or Americas, Champion Leagues, not beating 2nd rate teams in the Liga. Legend to me means also career accolades to justify it.
You just listed them. World Cup champion, check. Copa America champion, check. Champions League champion, check. Two time world player of the year, check.
Ronaldinho is the type of player that when says 'enough, I'm done' the whole world (haters included) will deeply regret. There will be for sure a void. Especially because of the impalpable. Merely because of the magic. A simple touch of his in a ball, a swerve, a dribble, an assist, a fk, a goal scored (99,999% invariably classy) are worthier to the game than whole careers of many well-known past & contemporary players. Notwithstanding his outstanding concrete achievements (titles, awards, etc).
True. And there's no doubt that he was at the top of his game and the key player at Barca when they won the CL. As far as the World Cup, my impression from 02 was that while Ronaldinho contributed to Brazil winning, he was more a young prospect with incredible future potential than an actual catalyst in that team. I love Ronnie's game at the time, but I thought Ronaldo and Rivaldo were more important for Brazil during that tournament. My thinking looking at Ronaldinho's game during that WC was that he was a brilliant kid and his best was yet to come, in terms of WC performance. Obviously in 06 he dissappointed, and now we're wondering if he'll even be considered for this next WC. I do think that even if he doesn't do much more -which he still might- he'll still be remember as a great one. But I don't think he'll be as high at the very top as he could have been, based on his talent and potential.
It's true. With Barca he was one of the main catalysts offensively speaking. He was the go to guy. With Brazil in 02 Rivaldo and Ronaldo were the go to guys. However Ronaldinho undeniably won us the England game and beautifully put Ronaldo in front of the goal twice in the 1st half of the final. Had Ronaldo scored those 2 goals we'd be giving Ronaldinho a lot more credit for 02.
Oh my, I can't believe Celito & I are agreeing em gênero, número & gráu. The two goals against England were absolutely key for us (the 1st was 99% his). Without those magic Ronaldinho's 70' until he was sent off - sorry Fenômeno, sorry Rivaldo - no penta nor greatest WC scorer's record for you. That'd mean 3 goals less in R9's WC career. Müller would still be reigning & both would be watching that final from Rio.