Do the referees enforce the rules ?

Discussion in 'Columbus Crew SC' started by Raoul, Sep 23, 2003.

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Rules enforcement - more or less

  1. The game is just physical - no problem

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  2. If there were more cards the play wouldn't improve

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  3. American Refs can't be consistent enough to be a factor

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  4. Call all the fouls and card to speed up the game, too many hacks are playing.

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  1. Raoul

    Raoul New Member

    Sep 19, 1999
    Downtown Dublin
    The Richie Williams forearm shiver and Addu's 12' stretch of Buddle's jersey brought up a discussion on rule enforcement with a friend . We both watch EPL and Bundesliga etc. and have noted a decrease in both pace and scoring in MLS. Part of the problem appeared to us to be an unwillingness to enforce the rules with cards and expulsions. The persistent fouling and some clear intimidations (ala Richie) have reduced the pace and skill demonstrations by the more talented players. Anyone who thought McBride hasn't been being persistently fouled from behind when he receives the ball hasn't been paying attention.

    What's the general opinion?
     
  2. CrewToon

    CrewToon Member

    Jun 13, 1999
    Greenbrier Farm
    The only referee who seemed to actually know the rules was the one who officiated the Crew's last home match. He was the best I've seen in MLS in a long time.
     
  3. Raoul

    Raoul New Member

    Sep 19, 1999
    Downtown Dublin
    Mark Williams mentioned that MLS looked even more physical than the English 1st. Trash fouling knocked Perez out of the game and it's doing the same to Martino.

    Let's see how quickly trash fouls decrease when a team goes down a man for 20-70 mins.
     
  4. DGA57

    DGA57 Member

    Jun 17, 2002
    Dublin, OH
    I would say that the refs aren't consistent enough, therefore they DO affect the games. In what other league would you see BMB, Buddle and JC consistently being pulled down in the box and the result being mostly an "oops, missed that one again"? And then you get Ruiz and Serna in LA getting calls just for being near the ball inside the 18. I think the last time I checked we had 2 freaking PK's; LA had 7. We've never have received the calls for us throughout 7 years. Not even the great Stern John while getting hammered by 3 DC defenders late in a match that we ultimately lost against the evil empire at RFK a few years back. Last year (or two years ago), we got our first PK with 2 games to spare in the season.

    And lets not get started on Stott's All-Star performance at the LHUSOC match at Crew Stadium where the Hacks had none, zilch, zero fouls called against their 4 defenders over 90 minutes.
     
  5. Foosinho

    Foosinho New Member

    Jan 11, 1999
    New Albany, OH
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I voted that the refs are far too inconsistent - even within one game - to properly enforce the rules.

    For example, against the Metros the ref got - for the most part - the persistent fouling of McBride (but should've thrown a card or two for the persistent nature of it), but failed to, IMO, properly call ABMOD's intimidation hack of Martino.

    We need consistent officiating first. Then we can worry about proper enforcement. Which is a problem.
     
  6. Raoul

    Raoul New Member

    Sep 19, 1999
    Downtown Dublin
    Noel Kenny is, IMO, one of the worst at consistency and has no guts to pull the red. Most of the others are better, but there seems to be an allowance for the "professional hold" and Bradley's teams seem coached to pressure up from behind to allow no turns. How do you allow a defender to wrap his arms around an offensive forward on a corner with no foul?

    We seem too complacent about the "professional foul" which seems to occur every time someone get beat or could lead to a breakout pass. It can't be any secret and guys like Addu couldn't play without the foul to slow play. Part of the probelm could be the Crew's lack of ball movement or predictability of movement., but I've seen 3-5 games without the Crew devolve into foul fests as teams got tired.
     
  7. Eggy

    Eggy New Member

    May 28, 1999
    CBUS
    Throwing some reds might calm it down but are the players just dirty or are they told to play like this?

    Believe this if you want to but I knew a guy who was director of coaching for a club in Louisville. He would go help at camps at IU and was all over them. He talked with Kovalenko alot and Dema said that when he got to MLS, instead of being more a play maker like he was in college he was told to go out and whack people to disrupt the flow of play.

    If you watch Serie A, the Italians are masters of it. Purposely foul someone enough to give them a free kick so your team has enough time to reorganize.

    Anyone watch the match tonight? Bo should have gotten a yellow card before the play he actually got it in. By the time he got a red card it was too late and Beasley was limping off.
     
  8. Raoul

    Raoul New Member

    Sep 19, 1999
    Downtown Dublin
    Exactly my point. I think it's becoming obvious to even middle level fans like me.

    Good flow to the game tonight though, IMO. Did you see Suarez grab both of Razov's arms from behind and pull him down? Trashy at a minimum and cardable arguably.
     
  9. ZipSix

    ZipSix BigSoccer Supporter

    Mar 20, 2000
    Boston, MA
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Alex Prus gave two straight reds, one to Beckerman and one to Kamler, in Thursday's COL v. NE game. Both of which I thought were well deserved. Beckerman took someone down in a pretty nasty from behind hack job, and Kamler cleated his opponent in the thigh.

    Both cards were well warranted, despite what Hollywood Harkes and Wynalda had to say afterward.
     
  10. myshap

    myshap Member

    Jun 19, 2002
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    I know we're Crew fans and all, but lets not forget to throw in to the mix Martino's two footed tackle on Guerava. In what other league in the world is that not a cardable offense? Of course, I don't think Oughton should have gotten a yellow. It was a fair challenge, IMO. He got all ball, watch the rerun. Noel Kenney is a compleate tool and he unable to call a consistant game. The sad thing is all the refs in MLS are like that, except about two or three decent ones.
     
  11. Flyer Fan

    Flyer Fan Member+

    Apr 18, 1999
    Columbus, OH
    The inconsistency within a match, let alone from match-to-match, is what bothers me the most. I think every player and fan realizes that the officials aren't robots, so variations between the officials are expected. After a few matches officiated by a specific ref, the players should be able to have a feel for how the ref handles the match, the lines he draws, etc. Unfortunately, I think it's difficult for players to do that because it seems officials aren't consistent within the match. Fouls at certain points of the match go uncalled at other points. That's why you see so much frustration. And it affects all teams.
     
  12. Grouchy

    Grouchy Member+

    turkey bacon with swiss
    Apr 18, 1999
    Canal Winchester
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Definitely inconsistency...

    Watching the Fire/LA LHUSOC match last night, Bo should have been gone earlier, and as mentioned the result was Beasley limping off the field subbed in to avoid further hack/injury. Beas' goal wasn't offside (let's not forget some linesmen don't get it)...

    What sad is there are teams and players that know exactly how to use this inconsistency to play teams. The Crew when playing DC always looked to disrupt Etcheverry by putting people like Rob Smith on him. Historically, the Metros and Rapids have always played the Crew rough.

    That and MLS/Fifa have passed rules like the persistent foul, slide tackles from behind, and modified existing rules like the offsides rule to benefit the attacker. Yet they either go unenforced or enforced occasionally.
     
  13. Raoul

    Raoul New Member

    Sep 19, 1999
    Downtown Dublin
    Agreed to all, but is there a forum where ALL fans can make it clear to MLS that this is an aspect of the game which is unacceptable and is ruining the ENTERTAINMENT value of the game (OK, the calls are somewhat funny, but they subtract from the game to a net negative result).

    This is obviously not a Crew limited problem. Is the answer learn how to play around it, or develop a more physical team?

    BTW, zipsix, I'm glad I wasn't the only one who felt those were two obvious reds. WTF were those guys thinking? The EPL had a guy's leg broken on exactly the same type play (Blackburn offender). I thought Prus did a pretty credible job in that game and the teams just never figured out 10 v 10. What's so bad about 10 v 10 or even 10 v 9. Those #s might open the game up similar to what iy would be without the hacking. Ever watch 4v4 Hockey?
     
  14. Eggy

    Eggy New Member

    May 28, 1999
    CBUS
    And Etcheverry would take a dive knowing his chance to actually get a penalty was more probably with an MLS referee.
     
  15. Raoul

    Raoul New Member

    Sep 19, 1999
    Downtown Dublin
    This weekends games appear to me to be more closely called on the grabs and pulls. The way over the hill Alexis Flawless got a card for an obvios pull on a breakaway and Leitch got called for a PK on a poor foul (otherwise good game) in the box.

    Still way too many consistent "professional" fouls to break up the game and timewasting arguments with the ref for my taste. We'll see in the Crew/Revs game, but Kennedy seemed to have better control and be more willing to call the DC/Metro game. The cards are adding up for the hacks - will ant ref have the cajhones to give a 2nd yellow for a red?

    Mathis - 2nd yellow for a RED on an obvious elbow to the back of Convey's head.
     
  16. CrewToon

    CrewToon Member

    Jun 13, 1999
    Greenbrier Farm
    I think the ref in last night's Crew-Revs match had no concept of the rules. If he did, the Revs would have won in regulation.
     

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