The "diving" issue. Vast debat, especially after this Wolrd Cup. I have been quite amazed by the amount of inaccurate reports, biaised views and odd reasonings relative to this issue. Let s try to point some facts : 1) There is a difference between "embelishing faults" and "diving" Embelishing faults happends when players want the referee to understand that they have been faulted. Diving happends when there is no fault and someone simulate one. Diving is shameful and should be sanctionnated. Embelishing fault is just unpleasant. 2) Every team has some divers Indeed. 3) Since every team has some divers, noone can complain ? NO Yes, some teams dives a lot more. And yes, it can be point out. There is a difference between a team in which a player or two dive time to time and a team in which 80% of their players dive 3 or 4 times a game, in EVERY SINGLE game.
There is no team in the world that has 80% of their players diving... That would be 8 out of 11 if you are just counting who is on the field... so don't just through out stats...once again that would be misleading... Is diving a problem...yes...but the ref yesterday did the right thing...just wave them up and it will stop... but no team does it more then anyone else as you are insinuating...
That's good.....and you do it in such a straight way as well. Then I noticed the avitar and country you support....good....very good.... Go back and count C Ronaldo's shameful exhibition from yesterdays match. Towards the end he was throwing himself down in front of the ref in desparation......when the ball was at the other end of the pitch. Yes I'd say those stats were good for one team..!!!
All teams dive but some get away with it whereas others don't, and some actually win games with it whereas other don't. In short, some are just better at it than others, and being Portuguese I guess you can be proud of that fact.
Ok, point taken. But everyone get the idea. You cant honestly think that. It is so obviously wrong. Between some teams, it's just not anywhere near on the same scale. Watching some teams, it becomes obvious that diving is their tactic which is what makes them different from most other countries.
Yea, he does. I cant remember him diving. Maybe did he, i just cant remember. Anyway, if you want me to say that french players never dive, i wont. We had (few) reccurent divers. Ginola was painful to watch because of those. Pires did some too, even if, most of the time, he was exagerating faults and not diving. Henry didnt dive in this World Cup. Neither versus Spain or versus Portugal. But he did embelish faults. I think he didnt had to. I m sad he did. But noone can compare those with some dives.
I love this logic--obviously all teams dive at exactly the same rate!! There can be no differentiation because JuveleoRules says so Try again, some teams clearly dive more than others, the worst in this tournament have been Ghana, Italy, Mexico, Ukraine...and yes, most definitely, Portugal. Pauleta, Figo, and C. Ronaldo may never win a Golden Boot, but they should definitely get Oscars for their performances. Then they could REALLY be a golden generation Teams that do not seem to dive much would be Germany (except maybe Ballack), Czech Rep., USA, Tunisia, Switzerland, Korea, Australia and I'm sure some others that I'm missing. The French, England, Brazil, and Argentina seem to be good at embellishing but *generally* stop at outright diving.
to me he dove and badly against spain in the whole Puyol incident.. he didnt dive against portugal, he did help sell the contact that was made, but there was contact and that means penalty
The difference as I pointed out on another thread is that while most people are embarrassed when their players dive, the Portuguese seem to have no problem whatsoever with it, and in fact continue to make excuses for it. It seems to be something deeply engrained in Portuguese football culture if it's that well accepted.
I wont speak for nor defend any other teams, so this statement may apply to them as well. For Italy, please give me an example of a player who WAS NOT TOUCHED by an opponent, yet fell on purpose to get a call from the ref (don't even go to grosso vs Australia becaus ei have picture proof that there was contact there). You have 6 games from which to choose. That's 570 minutes of soccer. Since you say that Italy are persistent divers, I'm sure you can find one example. If not, than please STFU you flaming a-hole!! Oh, and I can pinpoint the exact moment of 3 Michael Ballack clear dives from this tournament. One Joe Cole dive. One Mark Viduka dive. Several Brazil dives. Maxi Rodriguez from Argentina was carded in OT of the Germany game for an outright dive. I also saw at least 2 French dives during the 1st round. And please, don't add this *generally* bullshite to your comments about the countries that you state don't generally dive. It's a cowardly way of covering your arse when someone like me challenges your ridiculous assertion. All you do is rebut with "well I did say, generally". I say FU!!! Once again, dives are for players falling to the ground without any contact!
Czech Rep line up Nedved voted greatest diver of Serie A by the likes of the fans of 19 teams other than Juventus... ( still a terrific player but he once got a foul after a dive very similar to that of Ronaldo yesterday, the match being a Juve-Roma ). Poborski? Baros? USA: I remember a great dive from Beasley, Berdsley... I don't remember. Australia: Bresciano rolling, rolling, rolling come on ref pull that red ( done ). Podolski can be a good diver. No really ther is no exception. Each country has its divers. Some have more. I remember watching premiership 15 years ago and it was quite a fair play tournament, really not like mainland europe ones.. Now that's gone too. I think to stop this ( diving, but also embellishment, and fake injuries ) you have to prepare 1) more capable refs and tell em to 2) sanction less fouls by conceding a harder game to defenders. P.s.: yesterday you had to clear dives by Ribery abd Zidane, not embellishment of sort. You had a Adriano clear dive in the game against Ghana could go on but, really it's becoming a little tiring.
I am sorry, but i have to disagree. I dont think the question is to know if someone was touched or not, contact was made or not. Football is a contact game. Contacts are made all the time. But sometimes the contact is irregular. Diving happends when there is a regular contact or no contact and someone simulate an irregular one. Can you please elaborate ? But can you ? Seriously ...
He still intentionally fell. He could have easily jumped over him. Just because you fall into a defender doesn't make it a 'foul'. By that logic, Totti falling on a Korean's legs shouldn't have been a second yellow card
Except Portugal. Then they get away from it. A video panel should review every game, and each dive should carry a five-game suspension. But then the Portuguese league would have to close down due to lack of players.
First of all, yes there was contact on the Aussie dive...because Grosso ran over a player that was already on the ground, that's still a dive in my book. He was not trying to get to the ball, or he would have jumped. Rather he was deliberately trying to draw a foul so he DRAGS HIS FEET OVER THE AUSSIE PLAYER, and that, again in my opinion, is a dive because he initiated the contact--so Grosso was not touched BY the Aussie player, rather Grosso touched him. I realize that most Italy fans think this was a "great play" (the words of Lippi). I respectfully disagree. Secondly, Totti had a heck of a dive to set up the kick that resulted in their goal against the US. He's good at it, I'll give him that, but the second angle showed no contact.
if you actually believe that a "dive" requires no contact whatsover, then you are a pathetic embodyment of an Italian stereotype. simple as that.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QPVOBrbqQXo&search=portugal dive abosutley no bias in the commentary whatsoever... but still amusing.
The 1st one was Ribery vs Switzerland where he beat a player on the right wing, cut it back and fell throwing his arms up when the ref waved the play to go on. It happened in the 1st half and the replay showed absolutely no contact. Sorry I don't have a picture of it. The second one was Henry acting like he had been shot in the face and got Puyol carded in the 1st half vs Spain. Video showed Puyol did not come close to touching Henry's face. This may jog your memory a bit. The caption for this picture on ESPNNET was "Carles Puyol is the victim of some unseemly acting from Thierry Henry." View attachment 2275 Now I repeat my question. What Italian player, with absoltely no contact whatsoever fell to the ground or faked an injury to have an opponent booked? You have 6 games, 570 minutes to choose from. SInce they are such cheating hacks, then clearly you can think of one. I mean you challenged me on the 2 French cheats and I responded with the situation and even included a picture!!
I know even pictures won't convince you because you want to believe whatever conclusion you've already come to. But take a look at the follwing 3 photos that clearly show Grosso cuts the ball back to the corner of the six, Neil is beaten and the Neil extends his body into Grosso's path to the ball. View attachment 2276 View attachment 2277 View attachment 2278 The second photo clearly shows that when Grosso makes him cut to the inside, Neil is sitting - NOT LAYING and is not in Grosso's path to he ball. The 3rd photo has Neil completely sprawled in a laying down position. The correct debate is whether Grosso did everything humany possible to not fall. I don't think he did. But this idiotic idea that Neil was just laying there having a sip of tea and Grosso dribbled to him is ridiculous!
And yet another, this time Deco: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wW7J0OIXCro&search=world cup diving Here's some embellishment by Henry...it's funny to see the French coach livid here while in the Portugal match he kept calling for diving...I guess it's never diving when it's your guy? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iuazzL28bxc&search=world cup diving And Shevchenko... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mEl01GM0mAQ&search=world cup diving It's kind of interesting, perhaps diving works against you in the long run? Clearly in a tournament like the WC where refs are watching the other games they'll see who is diving and thus these players/teams get a reputation. It certainly seemed to work against Portugal. Sadly, for the US, Ghana came into the US-Ghana game without much of a reputation but then they showed their true colors
Actually if anything your photos show that Neill was not in Grosso's path, the ball is clearly to the right of where Neill is, and Grosso easilycould have avoided him. If you watch the video, Grosso definitely drags his left foot over Neill on purpose. It's pointless to argue about this, I doubt we're going to convince eachother. I've played a lot of soccer in my life and I know how strikers often drag their feet, especially in the box. They're fishing for fouls, it's cheating. The last two angles in this clip make it most obvious: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uXNc-4To80c&search=neill grosso EDIT: As to your demand for another Italian dive, see Totti diving against the USA, as I said: And just to stir the pot a bit more: The Italians are indisputably the world's greatest shirt-pullers No, but seriously...
England say they are disgusted about diving. Not true. They pass this "no diving here" message but here are some facts : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zAoe1MheTU4 Rooney. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Prcxxr4bJ3E Gerrard.