Discussion of 97’s-00’s

Discussion in 'Youth National Teams' started by ussoccer97531, Apr 17, 2021.

  1. ussoccer97531

    ussoccer97531 Member+

    Oct 12, 2012
    Club:
    --other--
    By popular demand.

    Discuss the 97’s-00’s that have aged out of YNT’s. Put all discussion of these players here. This includes MLS players, those playing abroad, USMNT performances, and players in this age range on foreign YNT’s/NT’s.
     
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  2. Dave Marino-Nachison

    Jun 9, 1999
    I'm a little confused. Don't we already have this thread? Can we clarify how this new one is different?

    https://www.bigsoccer.com/threads/ynt-post-mortem-u-s-players-born-97-00.2114430/

    I get that there was interest in something a bit different, though I confess I wasn't exactly sure what the purpose was apart from "I want to talk about '00s but I'd rather do it with the weirdos in the YNT forum than the weirdos in the MNT forum." ;)
     
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  3. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    I think of it as a "we'd like to continue to do updates on the players" rather than a "post-mortem" which is a judgement/root cause evaluation. But just tell me where to go.

    It just seems a bit bummer than 21 year olds are basically out even though they are still prospects.
     
  4. ussoccer97531

    ussoccer97531 Member+

    Oct 12, 2012
    Club:
    --other--
    My mistake. I didn’t see your thread. No one was using it.
     
  5. Dave Marino-Nachison

    Jun 9, 1999
    People wanted something else! That is fine. I just wanted to understand what it was.
     
  6. Mahtzo1

    Mahtzo1 Member+

    Jan 15, 2007
    So Cal
    I'm a little confused, are we not supposed to discuss U23 players? What about U22? U21? I understand that the next Olympics is four years away. Does that mean we cannot discuss U23 players, just because they cannot participate in the next Olympics? What is the reasoning?
     
  7. Kombucha

    Kombucha Member+

    Jul 1, 2016
    Club:
    --other--
    The rule appears to be that unless they are eligible to play for a Youth Team then they are not suppose to be discussed on this Forum, so when the US failed to qualify for the Olympics you went from being able to discuss U23 player (really U24) to only being able to discuss U20 player overnight.

    Personally, I would much rather be able to discuss all players up until the are no longer U23 regardless of Olympics. I get the semantics that the board is "Youth National Team," but the board at this point is more of a American U23 Board than a Youth National Team Board in my opinion.
     
  8. Mahtzo1

    Mahtzo1 Member+

    Jan 15, 2007
    So Cal
    Thanks, that is pretty much what I figured. I agree with you 100%. We didn't stop talking about USMNT players for 4 years when we failed to qualify. (I know that isn't quite the same thing but still)

    Second question...where can I find the actual rules of the forum? I am wondering if that is the actual rule (only players eligible for an upcoming ynt tournament?), or is that something that is implied by the title and some have taken it literally?

    If it is an actual rule, I don't like it because this forum does not focus only on ynt's per se but also on how they fit into the full national team through youth development. In order to compare and gauge the growth of youth soccer in USA, it is important to be consistent. The age groups can't be tracked intermittently if growth is to be compared. Add to that, the older age groups are very important because that is traditionally where we have had a big development gap. MLS academies and the youth system in general, have been successful preparing a few players for the higher levels, but a huge part of the debate has been and will continue to be how good is MLS for those 20-24 yr players. Will it hurt a top player to remain in MLS until 21? 22? or is Europe a better option regardless and should players go asap. Obviously, everything is actually a bit more nuanced.

    One more thing. Whether or not they do get together, there is nothing that would stop the U23's from getting together for a friendly match.....wouldn't that satisfy any requirements for being eligible for the U23 team....or does it really only count if it is a tournament?
     
  9. Pegasus

    Pegasus Member+

    Apr 20, 1999
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'm leaning towards keeping the U23's (not U24's) in youth discussion whether they made the Olympics or not. So many weird dynamics for not qualifying and those with promise not on the full team will disappear from discussion.
     
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  10. Kombucha

    Kombucha Member+

    Jul 1, 2016
    Club:
    --other--
    I don't know the exact rules.

    I know posters were discussing Dike's goals in here and then a week later during the middle the same season Dike scored again, but was now too old to be discussed since the US had not qualified for the Olympics...despite being 20. This was explained because he was no longer eligible for YNT after the U23 game and thus discussion on this forum.

    I get the semantics and the need for discussion rules, but it doesn't make sense that you can't discuss 2000 like Dike because they are too old at 20, but can discuss 2001 for another 3 years up until they are 23-24 simple due to Olympic cycles.

    Like you said you can't track prospects this way where some can be tracked until they are 23, but other only until they are 20. You need a consistent metric like U23 where a year of prospects ages out every year not U23 Olympic cycles where 4 years of prospects age out every 4 years and a consistent cut-off date like start of year for MLS and end of season for Europe.
     
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  11. Dave Marino-Nachison

    Jun 9, 1999
    Lotta people still having a hard time getting over the Honduras game, I see.

    ;)
     
  12. David Kerr

    David Kerr Member+

    Liverpool
    United States
    Oct 18, 2019
    Tbh I don’t think we need to talk about 97/98’s anymore because at this point they’re 23/24 year olds who are no longer prospects. But the 99’s and younger still are growing in their careers at this point and I’m okay with discussing them
     
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  13. Mahtzo1

    Mahtzo1 Member+

    Jan 15, 2007
    So Cal
    I'm absolutely fine with this because I believe this forum is as much about development as it is about ynt. a 24 year old player is at the beginning of what should be his prime years. 23 year old is still young but no longer really fits this forum (IMO). That being said, any U23 is eligible for the U23 team (when we have one) and for consistency's sake, I think there is a strong argument for their inclusion. age groups shouldn't be added or subtracted if a youth national team fails to qualify (unless this forum is only about the youth national teams performance)
     
  14. WheezingUSASupport

    Dortmund
    United States
    Aug 28, 2017
    Could we just have one combined thread where we can talk about US players in MLS who are under 22?

    I get the reason for the change to the other thread in terms of the age groups that qualify as US YNT players but to have two separate threads for 70-90 players in MLS under 22/23 seems silly.

    It’s easier if we can go to one thread to talk about young US MLS players who did something significant.
     
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  15. Mahtzo1

    Mahtzo1 Member+

    Jan 15, 2007
    So Cal
    I think that is a good suggestion.

    Basically:
    the forum is for US eligible U-23 players.
    Obviously no 00 would be discussed in a U17 thread etc.
    any U23 player could be discussed in:
    a) his own thread ie Cole Basset or the player that won't be mentioned here for fear of retaliation.
    b) the thread to which his team belongs (Dallas, Philly, or some future addition}
    c) the appropriate professional league ie MLS, USL (or if someone ever starts a B2 or B1 thread....) etc
     
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  16. Balerion

    Balerion Member+

    Aug 5, 2006
    Roslindale, MA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yes, fundamentally everybody here is interested in not just YNTs, but in youth development and the progress of young players. Because Olympic cycles are fours years long, the YNT eligibility of players in different birth years is totally arbitrary. We talk about 97s until they are 23 (or really, 24 because of COVID delays!) but 00s "expire" at age 20/21.

    Likewise 01s will be eligible forever, but the 04s will age out rather "fast".

    I think it makes sense to have a place to talk about "U23 but no longer YNT-eligible" players who are IMO still within the spirit of the scope of the forum.
     
  17. Balerion

    Balerion Member+

    Aug 5, 2006
    Roslindale, MA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Anyway, after some rumors of overseas interest, Sam Rogers '99 has signed with OKC Energy.
     
  18. ChuckMe92

    ChuckMe92 Member+

    Jun 23, 2016
    Columbus, OH
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It's worth noting that from a youth Euro perspective, '00s will remain youth-eligible through the summer of 2023. If Gioacchini, no longer US youth-eligible, were hypothetically recruited by Italy then he could play for them at the 2023 U21 Euros and all qualifying matches.

    European '98s remain youth-eligible through this current summer, even without the Olympics that were delayed by a year. Which is how a January '98 like Odsonne Edouard (would be good enough for most senior national teams, but is not yet for France's and may never be a regular for them) can keep clinging to his France YNT eligibility.

    On my Twitter account that promotes US young players I'm still posting about '98s, '99s, and '00s. Not US youth-eligible any more but they fall within the spirit of our interest. And from a European perspective their birth years are youth-eligible.
     
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  19. Thundering165

    Thundering165 Member+

    North Carolina FC
    United States
    May 1, 2017
    Raleigh
    ‘99 and former YNT Member Manny Perez has signed with the Timbers and loaned to Austin in a very MLS move.

    This should be a good chance to prove himself. He had a couple of bad injuries with NCFC.
     
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  20. NoHammiesAltidore

    United States
    Jun 28, 2019
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
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  21. David Kerr

    David Kerr Member+

    Liverpool
    United States
    Oct 18, 2019
    Severely disappointing for a player who at one point was the highest regarded 2000 by many
     
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  22. NoHammiesAltidore

    United States
    Jun 28, 2019
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
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  23. David Kerr

    David Kerr Member+

    Liverpool
    United States
    Oct 18, 2019
    Ben Ofeimu is an an 01 and doesn’t belong on this thread. He could be a dark horse for an Olympic qualifying roster, he’s severely underrated. Because of Dante Huckaby, Brandan Craig, and Sam Jones Philly passed on Ben but I seriously doubt he wouldn’t have been signed as a homegrown by quite a few other clubs
     
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  24. Balerion

    Balerion Member+

    Aug 5, 2006
    Roslindale, MA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Ofeimu is a 2000.
     
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  25. David Kerr

    David Kerr Member+

    Liverpool
    United States
    Oct 18, 2019
    *takes the L and updates the spreadsheet*
     
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