Did Johan Cruijff cost Holland two World Cups?

1900AFCA1900 · May 1, 2005

I think they are both very fast, but Robben is faster with the ball on his feet.

Dominique Rocheteau · May 2, 2005

Who was the Netherlands keeper at the Euro 1976 finals in Yugoslavia? I can't remember off the top of my head? I'm pretty sure it wasn't Jan Jongbloed.

Jongbloed had a strange international career. In 1963, he came on as a sub against Denmark but didn't get another game for the Dutch until right before the 1974 finals. Then I think he was out of the picture a lot of the time again until 1978. He never played again for the Netherlands after those finals.

And I think Muller's winner in '74 was stoppable

minorthreat · May 2, 2005

Was van Beveren really good enough to make that big of a difference? To have an impact large enough as the difference between winning and losing the World Cup, he would have needed the talent of Yashin or Zamora.

Yes, you can say that Germany wouldn't have made the '02 final without Kahn, but I've always maintained, and always will, that Michael Ballack was really the key player in that team.

johan neeskens · May 2, 2005

Sempre_Italia434 said:

There is actually a long history of talented Dutch players
spurning the national team. Simon Kuper writes about it in
his book Football Against the Enemy.

There he says it is a trait of Holland, an opnionated Calvinist
country, to have much in-fighting and arguing on the NT.
In the words of Cruyff himself: "The Dutch are pig-headed."

So what has cost Holland so much glory, I think, is the
extreme individuality of the players, who seem to have
little interest in uniting for the sake of the country.
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You haven't read Kuper's book that well it seems. He also says it is precisely this pig-headedness that has made tiny Holland such a force in international football.

You have to take the good with the bad here. Holland produces a lot of talent for such a small country, and that's at least partly because in Dutch society in general, and in Dutch football in particular, pig-headed opinionated individualism rules. Dutch people would never stand for a figure of authority telling them what to do. Dutch footballers do not like a manager who doesn't allow them to influence decision-making. That's what makes Dutch football different, in both the good and bad sense of the word. Good because the Dutch, in terms of football and tactical intelligence, are superior to any other football nation in the world.

johan neeskens · May 2, 2005

As for the discussion on Johan Cruyff:

He was and still is the big inspiration behind Dutch football. He's the reason why the vast majority of amateur sides in Holland still play a 4-3-3 with two attacking wingers. He's inspired coaches at every level of Dutch football to teach their pupils that it doesn't matter how many goals you concede as long as you score more. The significance of Johan Cruyff for Dutch football goes way beyond world cups. Way, way beyond.

BongartzUndRivera · May 2, 2005

Dominique Rocheteau said:

Who was the Netherlands keeper at the Euro 1976 finals in Yugoslavia? I can't remember off the top of my head? I'm pretty sure it wasn't Jan Jongbloed.

Jongbloed had a strange international career. In 1963, he came on as a sub against Denmark but didn't get another game for the Dutch until right before the 1974 finals. Then I think he was out of the picture a lot of the time again until 1978. He never played again for the Netherlands after those finals.

And I think Muller's winner in '74 was stoppable
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I am pretty sure it was Pete Schrijvers at the Euro76 and also he was the number two behind van Beveren, but was often injured.

I can't believe people are talking about the sencond goal was stoppable as the goal was not really on how Der Bomber had "kicked", it was rather more about how he had "tricked" Jan and the Dutch defense by putting the ball behind him to make the opponent to loose their balance.