Re: Lazio player accused of Fascist salute It's nothing "official" or actually written down anywhere but the ultras codex is generally accepted to include rules such as: ∙ If a group's main banner is stolen in a fight that group must then dissolve. ∙ Stolen banners are only to be displayed if it was won in an acutal confrontation. ∙ Under no circumstances are ultras to cooperate or report anything to the police Violence is usually planned (to some degree) and weapons like knives are generally frowned upon (although used in plenty of cases). In groups that are centralized, the leaders give the orders. There's also a system of alliances and friendships between different groups which complicates things further...
Re: Lazio player accused of Fascist salute Well, he DID colonize Ethiopia, though ofcourse it wasn't called Ethiopia at the time. But Mussolini himself wasn't particularly anti-semitic. In the early years of fascism there wasn't much anti-semitism, it was only under the influence of Hitler that Mussolini began to adopt anti-semitic policies.
Re: Lazio player accused of Fascist salute Mussolini and the Italians were not anti-semitic. Italy was, until the Axis alliance, one of the most progressive nations in regards of its treatment of Jews; Jews were serving in the Piedmont armies for decades as officers. Nor did Mussolini actively ship Jews to Hitler. The worst, sadly, ocurred after Mussolini needed Hitler's military strength. I don't think the Venetian Jews were shipped off until 1943, but I could be wrong.
Re: Lazio player accused of Fascist salute Exactly. Mussolini was a huge nationalist and saw every Italian as Italian, and didn't care about religion. He actually stalled as much as possible to not send Italian Jews to camps; as you said, the first Italian Jews were sent very late, in 1943.
Re: Lazio player accused of Fascist salute But then the Jews were kinda suckered into trusting Mussolini. Which turned out worse for them in the end. Seriously, he's only not anti-semetic compared to the extreme of Hitler. http://www1.yadvashem.org/about_yad/departments/institute/nidam.html "When the official anti-Jewish policy began in the summer of 1938, Italian Jews considered themselves and were considered by others to be equal citizens who love their country. Yet, in September 1938, the first antisemitic laws were promulgated despite the fact that several thousand Italian Jews belonged to the Fascist Party. Considering the lack of antisemitism in Italian society, the new laws were a great shock. It is important to emphasize that both the non-Jewish and the Jewish population believed the antisemitic laws were promulgated against Mussolini’s will and only in order to appease the German ally. Italian Jews, therefore, assumed that the new laws were meant only as a temporary discriminatory measure. However, this was not the case. The antisemitic legislation in Italy originated solely with Mussolini and not as a result of any Nazi pressure. Yet, the Jews’ trust in Mussolini and in Italian society continued during the following months when Mussolini introduced into the Italian antisemitic legislation the confusing concept of Discriminazione (discrimination)."
http://www.channel4.com/sport/football_italia/dec18g.html here he is week after week posing the roman salute. yet he says he is not doing anything wrong and just playing his game. In fact, Euro 2012 has said that Italy will not host the Euro Cup if racism and violence continue. They said in other countries that this salute wouldn't be talerated... what are your thoughts? Would you band him from games?
Re: Lazio player accused of Fascist salute A little off topic but Mussolini's youngest son Romano (Alessandra's father) became a well-known jazz pianist. "In 1963, Mussolini, who has no formal jazz training, released the critically-acclaimed “Jazz a Studio 7,” which established him as a major musician on the Italian scene. He received crucial support from his prewar friend Ellington and also played with Dizzy Gillespie, Tony Scott and Chet Baker (who according to jazz legend told Romano, “Sorry about your Dad,” upon meeting him for the first time.)" http://www.theamericanmag.com/article.php?show_issue_id=3&show_article_id=13 Some of his recordings are available at Amazon.
figured I'd merge the threads together...we'll keep the Di Canio business in one thread. I have given up trying to explain the man. From a pure sporting end, I cant understand why Pandev isn't the starter in the second forward role.
Nicephoras and RedskinUltra gave the correct picture. 1) Ultras are a quite vocal part of the fans but in terms of percentage they are a tiny fraction of the supporters of a team. And noone usually chooses his team because of politics. There are tons of left wing laziali, even laziali communists as you can imagine. 2) I am sure a good number of those laziali ultras who expose the swastikas belong to some neofascist organization such as Forza Nuova. So I wouldn't say all of them know little about history and politics. http://www.forzanuova.org/ Anyway neofascists are a tiny minority with no real influence in the country (apart from annoying ppl with their ideas, I know because I happened to fight a bit with them in political forums) and they will remain so. Imagine them as your american nazi parties. 3) Berlusconi is not a neofascist. I mean, he is not an admirer (or at least not publicly) of Mussolini nor he ever said he appreciates fascist policies. He is still a megalomaniac idiot. A danger for a sane democracy and he is in a certain way a figure similar to Mussolini. He could have become a dictator if circumstances were different. Alleanza Nazionale which is the big right party - Berlusconi's one is the party of opportunists who often have problems with justice, lawyers of the previously mentioned and ppl who likes to dream about fake plastic heavens (the ones berluska promises to them) - is not a neofascist even if they are someway the little nephews of fascism. They are similar to american republicans in their political views.
another article in germany about di canio... http://www.spiegel.de/sport/fussball/0,1518,391209,00.html if you ask me - he's a little bit freaky...
http://www.channel4.com/sport/football_italia/dec19l.html and the foolishness earns him a one-match ban with a hefty fine (not doubt to be paid by the fans)..In better news Lecce's GK is out for wed's match, I'll take that tradeoff.
He shouldnt of even got banned,why shouldn't he be allowed to have his own beliefs??? Paolo Di Canio is a legend
As is clear from the qualifications mentioned in previous lists (like 70% this 30% that) these political associations get all mixed up, especially as italian soccer becomes commercialized...I mean, Milan is "left" but its now owned by Beruisconi. If americans can imagine the Bush family owning the White Sox and using their victories to shine thier political image, would they still be considered the "working class" team of chicago? Another example is that Togliatti (the leader of the Italian communists from the 40s-60s) was a big Juve supporter, but when he spoke to the workers in Turin he had to play it down, since Turino was supposed to be the left team of Turin. Also, someone said its the fans and not the players who are political, but thats not completely true. Obviously its no coincidence that Di Canio is on Lazio and Luccarelli (whos leftist) is on Livorno.
http://sports.yahoo.com/sow/news;_y...0aA--?slug=reu-dicanio&prov=reuters&type=lgns Berluscione supports Di Canio, " a good lad".
Re: Lazio player accused of Fascist salute Additionally, that was after Mussolini had been overthrown by his generals and the Nazis had re-instated his power as a puppet.
I don't think his being "a legend" has anything to do with it. In the end, he has the right to communicate about his political beliefs and we have the right to label him a simpleton.
Doubt Di Canio really cares what anyone thinks of him except the Lazio fans!!!As long as they love him hes happy hes a legend and he has the right beliefs
Di Canio may have something else in common with his beloved fans. They will all be sitting in the stands at soccer games. We will see what FIFA decides.
Okok, i just read this post and signed up to answer. My name is Gianluca and I am an AS.ROMA fan. I go to see em every once in a while. I live in Italy and follow the extreme politics. In Italy there are "social centers" they are old buildings that are not used that extreme political parties like the facist party or the anarco-communists occupy. Each one has political orientation. There are 4 extreme right ones and like 50 extreme left ones. Many of the left ones are in livorno, and the livorno fans are communists. The Lazio Ultras have ties with fascist parties and it is a team that has a fascist following. Di Canio is a neo fascist (you can tell by his bald head aswell) In his interview he sais that his idol in life is B.Mussolini He saluted his fans with the roman salute. My opinion? My opinion is wahts written in the fascist banners: the communist crimes are always covered up and put in archives while fascists get locked away and the keys get thrown away.
Lmao bullshit. Berlusconi is not like mussonini and niether is alleanza mussolini, the right parties, im talking about extreme right are fiamma tricolore, forza nuova, fascismo e libertà and movimento nazionalsociale. They arent nazis or racists, they are fascists.