After having watched last nights game in which we once again turned to Maurice Edu for some offensive spark, I think using Dempsey in the central midfield would be a good idea. Not as one of the dual 8s, but as a #10 in advance of Bradley that can drop as deep as an 8 to look for service or push as high as a nine to wait for it. That way, the shape switches between a 4-2-3-1, a 4-1-4-1/4-3-3, and a 4-1-3-2. As happy as I was to see Dempsey on the pitch, and, furthermore, to see him AND Donovan on the SAME pitch for the SAME team, I was frustrated that it was at the expense of Torres, who I think is really just starting to come into his own for the U.S.. That role on the left where he drifts all the way across the pitch, whether it be deep or higher, to create overloads to combine around the opponent was useful, more so against Scotland than Brazil. He constantly combined with Bradley and Jones to send them bursting forward into the attack against Scotland, and he worked his way out of some tight spaces with nifty footwork against Brazil. The two ( Dempsey and Torres) are unique talents and are pretty key in the search for not just possession, but possession with a purpose.
Any time we've moved Dempsey further from goal, we have scored less. He's the best pure scorer on the team (Donovan scores more goals but our system helps him more- Dempsey can make his own in a way Landon can't). Moving him back is a mistake IMO. Watch any of our first few games under JK. As we failed to score, Dempsey dropped further and further back to get the ball (out of frustration). The results were not good- we still didn't score goals. Torres, on the other hand, plays deeper in the midfield for his club. He just doesn't appear to have a lot of bite to his game. Still, if either of these two can be safely moved deeper away from goal and into a more linking role, it's JFT- that's what he does for his club.
But I'm not saying that Dempsey is moved further from goal. I'm saying that Dempsey plays as a number 10 with freedom to drop deep and receive or push further up and support the main striker. The thread's title is a bit misleading, I get that.
Dempsey was used as the 10 as you describe against Italy. That's a good spot for him. I agree it would be desirable to have both Dempsey and Torres in the lineup at the same time. We have two options to achieve this. The best option at the moment imo is this: Two forwards: Gomez and Altidore, with Boyd spelling Altidore until he gets back into shape 2 Attacking mids: Dempsey and Donovan Torres as the 8 Bradley as the 6 (Jones as the main substitute/alternative to Torres and Bradley) I like this option at the moment because Gomez is in good form and I want him in the lineup. If he cools off or a wide player gets hot, then I move Dempsey to the second forward slot and bring in someone to play attacking mid on the left side.
You lose to much defensively in your own half of the field in that kind of lineup. I love Torres but he is not a good defender centrally in his own half.
I want to see Torres and Bradley ad dual 8's first. Try Jones at dmid. Its essentially the same with both Donovan and Dempsey playing attacking mids that can switch, roam, and track back as needed. I hope Jones can lock down the dmid spot so that Torres can replace Edu.
I've been pimping a lineup similar to this for a while now. It's basically a 4 3 3, but Dempsey pinches in playing a sort of hybrid LW/#10/SS role in attack. Torres can slide out to the left a bit to cover the space Dempsey vacates, and Johnson of course can bomb down the left flank. The right side plays in a more standard manner, with Donovan tending to stay wider than Dempsey, and Bradley staying more central than Torres. Play it as a standard 4 3 3 / 4 5 1 in defense. Anyone disagree? Also wouldn't mind a standard 4 2 3 1 if we want to go a bit more direct.
Bingo. The only thing I'd say is that I don't want Torres moving forward to the LW. Let Johnson do that. Torres' arrow almost should be 180 degrees from yours, coming back centrally to collect the ball and distribute.
Yeah, Johnson, not Torres, is definitely the first option down the left flank when Dempsey drifts inside. It may be prudent at times for Torres to drift wide when the opportunity presents itself, but his role is primarily on the interior, so the arrow is probably inappropriate.
Until Holden recovers, this. Once he does, he's in for Torres and swaps with Bradley. The one augmentation I've considered is moving Dempsey up top to the "false #9" role, making Torres the tucked in left winger, and bringing on Edu/Beckerman/Holden/Spector into the midfield triangle. The problem I foresee with that though is lack of box penetration if Dempsey and Torres are both checking to the ball. Is it delusional to think that Beasley, inserted for Torres on the left flank, could be a useful option forming a forward triangle of Beasley-Dempsey-Donovan?
I like the idea, but I think someone has to lock down the dmid role. Hopefully Jones can do that soon.
-----------------Dempsey---------------- Beasley------------------------Donovan -------------Torres---Bradley----------- -------------------Jones------------------ or -----------------Dempsey---------------- Beasley------------------------Donovan ------------Bradley---Holden----------- -------------------Jones------------------ Klinnsman's instructions: Beasley: "Do what you did at PSV." Bradley:"Do what you did at Heerenveen." Jones: "Do what you do at Schalke." Holden/Torres: "Do what you do at Bolton/Pachuca." Donovan: "Do what you did at Everton." Dempsey: "Do whatever the ******** you want."
I think that Bradley's best position is a 6. When he has the ball, he reminds me a lot of a basketball point guard. Always looking upfield, trying to play the most direct ball to a winger/striker. He loses effectiveness if he's playing upfield because there are fewer passing options. I'd like to see a midfield/forward lineup similar to what Maximum Optimal mentioned but we'll get burned in defense. I think we need to play Bradley and Jones as dual 6s with each going forward when the other has the ball.
Say what you will, but BB got us some fantastic results with crap players. JK is working with a better player pool and getting the same or worse results. Chalk it up to experimentation, but as it stands right now, I don't see a big improvement over BB in JK. If it were up to me, we would play some decent CBs who could actually play the ball out of the back (Ream) instead of the two ogres we have right now. Then you wouldn't need one or two DMs protecting the middle. Anyway, Bradley as an 8 means that he's playing at 75% of his capacity. It could still work, but it isn't the best use of our resources. Ideally, Bradley would play the 6 with Holden/Torres as 8s and Edu/Jones on the bench but with Holden's injury and JK's man crush on Jones, I don't see that happening in the next year.
Nope. Jones is a better 6 than Bradley. Plus, you are assuming Holden comes back to full form from his injuries (see Gooch). Bradley is a better two way player and should be higher up the field. At an 8, he has less of a tendency of getting into the "headless chicken" mode.
That's my A-Team. Also, last night, it looked like Torres had the freedom to roam horizontally. With Johnson holding down the left flank in attack, Torres can give us numbers in possession with the ball. However, it's critical that either he or another central midfielder track back in to the vacated space when dispossessed. Otherwise, that's a ton of room for Jones / Boca to cover.
I disagree on that assertion. Over the past two games, I think only the following were first capped by Klinsmann: Boyd Johnson Castillo Guys might have different roles or more playing time, but the vast majority of these players also played under Bradley at some point in time.
Johnson is a huge weapon that BB didn't have. Looking like he is on his way to world class, at least attacking wise.
I do like this lineup, and the comment about until Holden comes back makes sense to me because once he does, we can just flip this shape, have Dempsey move the exact same way, but have HOLDEN behind him moving out to that flank from central midfield swinging in those crosses. The only thing is that in the central midfield role here, Torres has a lot less freedom to roam than when he was a left midfielder drifting across the pitch. I just really liked the way he would make overloads all across the pitch and we could combine around players in different spots. He even combined with Landon on the right flank in a move that led to his shot that struck the post against Scotland. He was involved in the move that led to Bradley's screamer against Scotland as well. I really think if he had a Dempsey to combine with against Brazil rather than Edu we would have been tons more dangerous. Again, the shape suggested here isn't bad, and I'm pretty sure we ran something like it against Brazil with some success. I think we should try both, and we probably will.
I don't see why Torres couldn't also drift toward the right at times. I only put one arrow on there, but I don't mean it to define the entire possibilities of how he might move in this lineup. He and Bradley would certainly be able to interchange quite freely. I'm just saying that Dempsey would open up space on the left side when he drifts inside, and that Torres (or Bradley) and Johnson could take advantage of that when appropriate.
It's mostly because as a central midfielder, it might not be a good idea for you to be moving all over the place and leaving a hole in the center midfield, where as it's common to do that if you're a wide midfielder. I'm not saying it couldn't work of course, and Iniesta does that for Barcelona a lot actually, but I'm saying it's a risk.
I really am not trying to suggest that he do that. Obviously, CMs and fullbacks need to pick their spots to get forward. Just pointing out that there may be space left behind when Dempsey moves inside. It doesn't always have to be filled, and not exclusively by Torres. But just as I'm comfortable with Torres and Bradley switching fluidly between RCM and LCM, I'm comfortable with Torres drifting wide during attacking moves at times, especially when Dempsey moves centrally towards Torres' primary space.