Democratic Failure Thread

Discussion in 'Politics & Current Events' started by MasterShake29, Mar 27, 2011.

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  1. Boandlkramer

    Boandlkramer Member+

    Apr 9, 2009
    Samma Weltmeister!
    Club:
    FC Bayern München
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    Agreed. #formerberniesupporter
     
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  2. Deadtigers

    Deadtigers Member+

    Jul 23, 2015
    Independent Republic of the Bronx, NY
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Ghana
    If you guys have been paying attention and I don't mean to be an ass but this is been an issue with repeated Republican Congress is where they hand over the information that the bills to be voted on at the absolute last minute. I remember when they had their tax cut and you could see scribbled handwriting on the side with a vote schedule for 11:00 and senators being given the 300 page bill at 10:00.

    Tbf, what Democrats do is they offer you a massive omnibus and incorporate everything from increasing money for cops, increasing money for social services to save the gay baby whales in one massive bill so that if you vote against it then you look bad.

    I would much rather prefer Republicans that would Democrats do and have a bill with tons of writer so Democrats at least have the opportunity to read it and decide what they're going to do I don't think she slamming something people's death last minute and not giving them time to read it is a proper report so you decide what is acceptable and what's not acceptable to you. I have told you what my line is.
     
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  3. taosjohn

    taosjohn Member+

    Dec 23, 2004
    taos,nm
    Of course neither is the right way to do it...:(
     
  4. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This is literally whataboutism.
     
  5. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    Agreed

    Tim Miller pointed out that if the GOP donors really want to stop trump they should stop giving 60m to the failed Tim Scott campaign and just spend all of it against Trump, even if that means helping Biden for one cycle.

    I think he is correct - Trump actually has to be defeated and not via pretend candidates
     
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  6. argentine soccer fan

    Staff Member

    Jan 18, 2001
    San Francisco Bay Area
    Club:
    CA Boca Juniors
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    That’s true, although it still doesn’t justify pulling a fire alarm.

    At least I do give you some credit for the attempt to morally defend/explain what he did. The man himself on the other hand has reduced himself to claiming it was an accident. Do you buy that?
     
  7. Bootsy Collins

    Bootsy Collins Player of the Year

    Oct 18, 2004
    Capitol Hill
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This is a maneuver that's been going on for as long as I can remember, and is probably older than the House of Representatives. It's bullshit no matter which party does it. But it still doesn't justify risking the lives of innocent uninvolved people.

    Yeah. Your line is that it's OK to kill me if it means reps get an extra hour to read a bill.
     
  8. argentine soccer fan

    Staff Member

    Jan 18, 2001
    San Francisco Bay Area
    Club:
    CA Boca Juniors
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    And it’s not like those “pretend candidates” are any better than Trump. Right now sadly there is no other choice, regardless of the extent to which we may like/dislike the incumbent and agree/disagree with him on any given issue.
     
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  9. Sounders78

    Sounders78 Member+

    Apr 20, 2009
    Olympia
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    France

    I suppose it depends on what the fire alarms are like, but I'm doubtful.

    More than anything else it is a sign that Congress is broken. And this is not a "both sides do it" scenario. The reason it is broken is because of Republicans.

    They are the ones who always create these budget deadline scenarios.
    They are the ones who could not agree on a budget within their own party.
    They are the ones who actively try to sabotage the basic functioning of the government.
    They are the ones who try to overthrow the government.
    They are the ones who try to use the government to attack their political opponents.

    They are corrupt.
     
  10. Deadtigers

    Deadtigers Member+

    Jul 23, 2015
    Independent Republic of the Bronx, NY
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Ghana
    No I'm saying the reason he pulled the fire alarm to buy Democrats more time is because of the little notice that they got to proofread the bill which has happened before. It's called motive I mean you can look that up professor.
     
  11. Deadtigers

    Deadtigers Member+

    Jul 23, 2015
    Independent Republic of the Bronx, NY
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Ghana
    #3111 Deadtigers, Oct 1, 2023
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2023
    It's ok the other side cheats and wins and we have fascism as long as we played by the rules.

    So if Thomas has a heart attack with 6 weeks to go before the 2024 election then the Dems shouldn't work to put in place a democratic Justice because that's not traditionally been the rules even though Republicans cheated to do it last time?
     
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  12. Deadtigers

    Deadtigers Member+

    Jul 23, 2015
    Independent Republic of the Bronx, NY
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Ghana
    Absolutely not.

    Quite frankly I would have loved the capital police to claim they had a scheduled deletion of video and they couldn't find out who did it just like how the secret service couldn't find the records for January 6th.

    I get what you're saying about rules and playing fair and if you use the tactics of your enemy then you become no better than them. In theory, this makes sense but as you look at what is happening to this country and how close we are to fascism and how we have rules that apparently don't matter, they don't seem to follow and we just went through a failed coup, I think you might want to change the rules of engagement.
     
  13. Bootsy Collins

    Bootsy Collins Player of the Year

    Oct 18, 2004
    Capitol Hill
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'm trying to figure out what any of the above has to do with pulling false fire alarms, but I just can't do it.
     
  14. Deadtigers

    Deadtigers Member+

    Jul 23, 2015
    Independent Republic of the Bronx, NY
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Ghana
    That it was wrong to pull the fire alarm but sometimes when the other side is doing wrong things then you have to also do wrong things and throw away the traditional rules of engagement and/or proper code of conduct.

    That's it. That's all. That's the counterpoint, I have been trying to make. You want to look at the fire alarm I'm trying to tell you it's part of a larger and greater issue.
     
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  15. Kazuma

    Kazuma Member+

    Chelsea
    Jul 30, 2007
    Detroit
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    One cycle is incredibly optimistic. GOP doesn't have anything to offer beyond culture wars and tax cuts. And if the post-Dobbs results offer anything, they're gonna keep losing long as abortion is an issue. One cycle isn't going to solve the GOP's issues if the Michigan GOP is anything to go by.

    I share Nichols's view that the GOP needs to be burned down to the ground all the way down to dog catcher.
     
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  16. Deadtigers

    Deadtigers Member+

    Jul 23, 2015
    Independent Republic of the Bronx, NY
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Ghana
    Just saw a TikTok and it looks like the pulling the fire alarm is Republican propaganda. He was in a different building. And it looked like McCarthy had called the house to order to debate the bill without notifying the Democrats. So Bowman was trying to rush out and the door wasn't working and there's assign to hit a button to open the door because the door is normally held open with some sort of jam apparently the button he hit was an actual fire alarm and that's what caused it.

    So you have McCarthy putting the bill on the floor with no Democrats there so the Democrats can take the blame and yet the Democrats approve it anyway because they went over to shut down. The damn should them finally keep Kevin in power I mean he's been so good to them right @Bootsy Collins.

    https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZT8MajUEF/
     
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  17. Bootsy Collins

    Bootsy Collins Player of the Year

    Oct 18, 2004
    Capitol Hill
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    OK. But to do so by endangering the lives of uninvolved, innocent third parties is beyond the pale.

    I mean, how far is OK to buy that extra hour to read the bill? 100,000 dead? 1,000 dead? 10 dead? You're saying the end justifies the means; so exactly how many do you think it's OK to kill to buy an extra hour to read the bill? I'm looking for a number, here.
     
  18. Bootsy Collins

    Bootsy Collins Player of the Year

    Oct 18, 2004
    Capitol Hill
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    A different building from what? Cannon? Because it's been reported from the very beginning, and is still being reported, that it was Cannon.
     
  19. bigredfutbol

    bigredfutbol Moderator
    Staff Member

    Sep 5, 2000
    Woodbridge, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It really isn’t.

    I’m not saying it’s a justifiable position, but it IS a position.
     
  20. Deadtigers

    Deadtigers Member+

    Jul 23, 2015
    Independent Republic of the Bronx, NY
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Ghana
    It was being flooded in social media that it was the capitol building.
     
  21. Deadtigers

    Deadtigers Member+

    Jul 23, 2015
    Independent Republic of the Bronx, NY
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Ghana
    I don't know. I can't remember the last time a false alarm was pulled and 100K died but you wanna play this game so let's say 1000.

    Now how much fascism and lives lost do it to it is acceptable to you? Because again by your rules of engagement you should never do anything that is beyond the pale. You don't get to say the fire alarm is wrong but other things needed to get the job done are okay? How many crappy laws getting through that lead to starving children or more children dying in horrible weather disasters that could have been prevented is okay?

    At this point it doesn't matter because it seems like the whole incident was blown out of proportion based on what I've been reading but I just fundamentally disagree with somebody like you who refuses to acknowledge The rules of engagement have changed.
     
  22. Bootsy Collins

    Bootsy Collins Player of the Year

    Oct 18, 2004
    Capitol Hill
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Another of the 1,000,000,000 strikes against social media then: I never once saw that in any news report.
     
  23. Cascarino's Pizzeria

    Apr 29, 2001
    New Jersey, USA
    That works for me! Not like he was planting bombs on 1/5 or anything
     
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  24. Bootsy Collins

    Bootsy Collins Player of the Year

    Oct 18, 2004
    Capitol Hill
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    To me, it's not a game. Both I and friends of mine have been injured during emergency responses. I was lucky to not be killed. Every year, someone gets killed in D.C. that way.

    Other things that don't involve threatening the lives of innocent uninvolved people, sure -- I do get to say that.

    No matter how the rules of engagement may have changed, you don't threaten the lives of innocent unrelated third parties. You just don't do that.

    I'm now remembering that six years ago, you posted how every single person in the South should have been exterminated after the Civil War. If memory serves, you made a similar argument about everyone in Germany after WW1, as well. So I'm just going to back away slowly and say "nice person, nice person."
     
  25. Deadtigers

    Deadtigers Member+

    Jul 23, 2015
    Independent Republic of the Bronx, NY
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Ghana
    I would have had more respect for you, if you would have just said I suffered a personal trauma through a false alarm. Because it wouldn't make your unwillingness on this matter much clearer and I would have at least understood that otherwise. I would know that even if I believe I am right, I can't change the mind of somebody who went through such a thing.

    But instead you make these arguments that deny reality and then have a misdirection so large that it looks like you should be the running back coach for the Commanders.

    You never answer my question as to how many lives lost. Innocent lives that you value so much due to a federal shutdown because McCarthy gave the Democrats in no time or the Democrats agreeing to a bill that could have possibly been flawed would have been acceptable to you because no fire alarm was pulled. You can't answer that and now I see why you can't answer that but it's very clear that rather than just say look I can't answer that because of all that I've been through so this is my stance and I would have been like well that's what you've been through so I'm going to leave it.

    You then want to drag up something I said 6 years ago, which is amazing because I didn't even realize I've been on this forum that long. You do this out of some sort of weird desperate attempt to avoid answering my point and now try to say well you know you're like some sort of psycho because you wish that the good guys would have annihilated the bad guys and saved us to trouble of repeating these battles again.

    So you can be happy with yourself and the comments and the manner you carried yourself just now. I won't put you on ignore because I don't believe in putting people on ignore but I've lost an incredible amount of respect for you and the way that you carry yourself in debate in this forum.
     
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