Cristiano Ronaldo ~ Your Favorite Player Is So Much Better!! Thread

While I agree that there is a luck factor in football, I believe that the recurrence of something cannot be just luck. Ronaldo has consistently scored difficult goals throughout his career and he proves to be an ATG in off the ball movement. There's no data for off ball movement but look at all his moves before his easy tap-ins and you'll see what I mean.

xG is misleading without context. We know Ronaldo has more xG and less goals scored than Messi in domestic league since 14/15 (9,47 more xG but 36 less goals scored). You would look at this stat and say Messi is more efficient without considering the context. Ronaldo's off the ball movement often generates high quality chances for him and that increases his xG numbers significantly in comparison to Messi. Although he doesn't have significantly more shots than Messi (has 17 more on that timeframe) let's say that 90% of his xG came from 50% of his shots and the rest were the sum of his difficult shots accumulated while Messi's xG came from 90% of his shots. We really don't have how to know it. What I know just by watching both player play for the last 15 years is that Messi isn't in the box on crowded corners, he doesn't shoots beyond 25 yards on set pieces, he doesn't shoot from distance or off angle with his weak foot, he doesn't attempt super long range shots and he definitely doesn't get on the end of crosses to attempt low percentage headers. Ronaldo does all that.

Come on man, Messi played most of his career in a well oiled machine playing from muscle memory where his teammates have a strict template that they stick to at all costs which is why the build-ups and attacking moves were mirror images of one another week in week out. We've all seen Messi replicate the same plays and attacking moves be it dribbling, shooting or passing thousand of times. I've laid out the constant 1-2's, the dribbles along the box shooting near or far post, the diagonal pass, the trailing run in the box, etc...

I agree that Ronaldo and the teams he played for have patterns but his counter attacking teams were much more chaotic and less pass oriented with individuals who attempted more singular attacks which produced a certain unorganized feel to their approach. When do you see Ronaldo get the ball with all the same movements and player patterns developing? He doesn't get to hit rewind and try again 10 times a game. That required him to be more versatile and spontaneous in nature which he is accostumed to. We see Ronaldo back heeling to his striker on the left flank, then scoring a diving header, then making a box to box sprint, then shooting from the right flank with his left foot, etc... It's day and night. This is why Ronaldo is so versatile, he must adapt to whatever opportunity arises organically.

 

🔎 Cristiano Ronaldo marcou 3 gols de fora da área em 45 minutos.

⚽️ Gol de falta aos 11'
⚽️ Gol de falta aos 21'
⚽️ Gol de cobertura aos 42'

Nenhum jogador da nossa base de dados marcou mais do que 3 gols em chutes de fora da área em uma partida completa.

🇵🇹🎯 pic.twitter.com/e5CVh2PAzW

— Sofascore Brasil (@SofascoreBR) April 2, 2024

 

UCL Knockout Goals (2007-2020):

🇵🇹 Cristiano Ronaldo: 67
🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿 Liverpool: 66
🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿 Chelsea: 57
🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿 Arsenal: 51
🇮🇹 Juventus: 44
🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿 Manchester City: 44

Competing with clubs 😭🐐 pic.twitter.com/h7gk0m5Y3h

— CristianoXtra (@CristianoXtra_) July 13, 2024

 

"If you remove the goals..."

If we remove the goals….

pic.twitter.com/QokC1rHbmE https://t.co/Fj1UTm0x9o

— W (@_common_W_) July 25, 2024

@carlito86 @SayWhatIWant and this is his Juve days. The first play is peak Maradona's level

 

Part 2: pic.twitter.com/t1jEOqj6Sn

— BERSERK (@RetroCristiano) May 14, 2020

 

If I had to cram everything at juventus into a 2~ minute video then alot of those side way passes would not even make the cut

they’d get replaced with these















Another trivela here





Dribbling past multiple players and creating a big chance here via a cross(too long for me to covert into gif form)

05:47
Was 34 years old here

 

And there are those who say that Ronaldo is a "very good player" but he is not a "genius" lol

 

Why Cronaldo should be called a genius? He is a machine, a tireless goalscorer, a excellent player, a determined figure with a underrated technique, but a genius is all the thing he isn't. Being a genius is someone who transcends the expectation, the common, the one who is above the rest in thinking, vision, in build up the games differently etc.. Cristiano isn't it and all the extrapolations, hyperboles and predicates an ordinary fanboy can say will not change what we saw consistently all these years.
You despise our intelligence here on Big Soccer with your childish arguments, overall.

 

@Isaías Silva Serafim

Transcending all expectations

“We can filter all of Zlatan’s most difficult chances over his last 10 seasons of domestic football by selecting those that had an Expected Goals (xG) value of less than 0.05, or 5%. By doing this, we can isolate his shots that, on average, had a lower than 5% chance of going in. Ibrahimovic has registered 380 shots of this difficulty.

His ability to score spectacular goals from difficult chances is evident. Ibra scored 22 goals from these situations, nearly nine more than Opta’s Expected Goals model would have expected him to.

To put this into perspective, over the same period in the top five European leagues, only two players – Ronaldo (38) and Messi (34) – scored more goals from chances of this difficulty. These figures are even more remarkable given that the next highest ranked player for goals from this chance difficulty only scored 7.
https://www.statsperform.com/resource/stats-performs-legends-series-part-two-zlatan-ibrahimovic/


From all time legendary dribbler to all time legendary goalscorer

































A transition like this has never been replicated in the history of football

from a top 2 dribbler 3 seasons consecutively to top scoring 6 times in a row
This is Europe’s premier competition

Adaptability

Cristiano Ronaldo is the first player to score 30+ league goals in a single season in three different big-five European divisions:

2000s: ✓ Premier League
2010s: ✓✓✓✓✓✓ LaLiga
2020s: ✓ Serie A

And he's done it across three different decades. pic.twitter.com/Evll5M3OOZ

— Squawka (@Squawka) July 20, 2020

Vision
I have no doubt that the one typing has never even seen 50% of his visionary passes
This is a common theme here anyways

 

such agenda can't win the argument. It will need much more than that.

 

An argument to prove someone is a genuis?

first quantify what a genuis is(correctly)
Then make your case for why cristiano doesn’t reach that bar according to your own standard.


Things like adaptability and the ability to transcend all expectations are characteristics that have defined his career

no need to go down the road of WC KO stage goals even though you probably should because it really all you have

your ‘Arch nemesis’ Sexybeast posted something interesting in his critic of Vinícius Jr

Diego Maradona is the one with 4 non penalty goals in World Cup KO stages

He is also the one with 0 non penalty goals in CL and UEFA Cup KO stages



And even if you didn’t call him a genuis explicitly you did so implicitly by saying he was a talent like Pele,Cruyff and Messi

Now just swapping the names
Isn’t it logical that the player who so consistently scores important goals in
World Cup KO stages would perform even better at a level of football that is below that?

That is not the case for Diego Maradona
Why is that?

Goals particularly important goals that win matches that win titles are the main currency of success and greatness in football

Nobody knew or cared whether Diego Maradona completed 12 dribbles in 90 minutes against England in WC 1986 before OPTA released the official data statistics

But everybody and their dog knew he scored against them both legally and illegally
The Fans with a TV set in the 1980s and the ones without.

in the cities,inner cities,favelas,hoods,Barrios,Slums,jungles etc
Everywhere

Someone like Neymar “your top 10
All time talent” and by further extension a “genuis” is what I would call a ‘Microsoft excel spreadsheet ATG’
In the real world where greatness is intrinsically linked with meaningful moments he doesn’t even exist

he doesn’t exist at all in fact


Whether Cristiano is a genuis or not is entirely subjective
That he is objectively greater than almost every single player that you think is a genuis isn’t

 

Why is Cristiano a genius? We all know what Cristiano will do in a game, he will running with the ball in his prime athletic version (in his post-peak version running without the ball, but anyway you can get) and he will shot whatever he has the chance, do you call it adaptability in build up the play, in the way of thinking, in overcoming expectation etc? Of course ocasionally he will have those flair touches, his backheels here and there, but enough to be called genius? He is a direct player and always has been, a direct player with one modus operandi, if he fails, he will try again and again and again. Most likely missing a new form to connect with other teammates or missing a more intelligent play in the process. That's a resume of Cristiano Ronaldo, an avid killer.

Now what Maradona will do, what Messi walking on the center of the pitch like a nobody, what he is thinking? Nobody knows. Ronaldinho in his prime at Barcelona. You always can feel something new is waiting to happening and the expectation were sky high. Improvisation skills and cognition were at another level. You can presencies those moments in some players more frequently than in others, a sombrero in a world cup final with 17 years old in a 1 second time? Here you have it, genius.

So, why Cristiano actually should be called a genius? I don't see the reasons for it. He has his moments like anyone, but not to be called of one of them. A competent, excellent player yes, a genius, not! But should be called a genius the ultimate goal for carlitos and his disciplines now? Isn't it enough to be called a excellent net-positive, durable and consistent player? I think it should. Even more with all the records (to be posted each day), a courtesy of the superteams era someone could also say tho.

 

Walking?
How about standing?

“It’s 35 yards or more
Too far for Ronaldo to think about it

ooooo LOL
Absolutely sensational

cristiano has matched the scorcher he scored in Porto to leave Arsenal all but finished”


This is neither flair,nor backheels or anything else you mentioned

is this less “genuis” than Messi picking the ball up in the centre pitch and dribbling past 4 players?
I don’t think so


How many “avid killers” can you count who have scored goals from such in distance in games of such magnitude?
How many pacifists can you count who have scored goals from such a distance in games of such magnitude?

Ronaldo Nazario?
His genuis moments in big games?

produce them so we can laugh together



you may not be overly impressed by this ability but others are

Porto 2009


“You’re not thinking
no one is thinking he’s going to hit it from there

There’s very few players that would even attempt that
even Great players

40 yards!!!
It’s an absolutely ridiculous strike”
Graeme souness

Ruud gullit on the panel here too calling it a “perfect strike”
Also shitting on Hulk your compatriot

More?
the former Arsenal talisman maintains that the Red Devils' World Player of the Year - who scored an astounding 40-yard winner at Porto on Wednesday night - is better than the pocket-sized Argentine. “The greatness of a player is measured by the titles he has helped his team conquer," Thierry Henry told Record. "Therefore, I have to recognise that Cristiano Ronaldo is better than Leo Messi”
https://www.fourfourtwo.com/news/henry-ronaldo-better-messi


he has his moments like everyone and he has his moments like no one else either


as they say over here different strokes for different folks
But to me this is definitely genuis

And Isaías Silva Serafim is not my “disciple” FFS
Grow up mate

 

LoL (and the lol can't be emphasized enough) Ronaldo is repetitive? It's the other way around. I know exactly what Messi will do. Watching Messi, when I see he has the ball 30 yards from goal I know perfectly well a shot isn't coming. When I see a free-kick from an acute angle and a significant distance I know he is going to play a cross. When Messi gets the ball and a defender is between him and a teammate I know a 1-2 is coming. When he gets the ball at the edge of the box I know he is going to dribble along the box and shoot for either post. When Messi is in the middle I know a run is going to be made on the flank and he will make the diagonal pass. When I see Messi dribble down the wing and run out of room, I know he is not going to pass with his right, he is going to dribble back to his left....I know that Messi is going to follow up his diagonal passes by jogging into the box behind the play to hopefully get a rebound.....When Barca wins a corner, I know Messi is not going to score.... With Ronaldo anything can happen at any time, hence, unpredictable.

Ronaldo spontaneously adapts to a larger variety of situations throughout a game. You can't honestly without a clear agenda argue otherwise. Barcelona's build-ups are all repetitive and similar movements and patters manifest many times over every game. When do you see Ronaldo get the ball with all the same movements and player patterns developing? We've all seen Messi replicate the same plays and attacking moves be it dribbling, shooting or passing thousands of times. Ronaldo doesn't get to hit rewind and try again 10 times a game. I've laid out the constant 1-2's, the dribbles along the box shooting near or far post, the diagonal pass etc...etc, and Messi is on the ball over 100 times a game in deep positions where he can attempt the same build-ups. Most plays are slight variations on a theme. We see Ronaldo back-heeling to Benzema on the left flank, then scoring a diving header, then making a box to box sprint, then shooting from the right flank with his left foot....etc....A similar positioning and movement for the ball Ronaldo played to Nani against Hungary was never seen again in the rest of that match. That was a once in a game occurence and Ronaldo capitalized. 1 through ball, one goal. In reverse, Messi attempts that pass to Neymar 8-9 times a game as he comes into possession and his teammates make those runs repeatedly.....It's day and night. This is why ronaldo is so versatile, he must adapt to whatever opportunity arises organically. You must admit Barcelona contrives much of their play. This used to be Xavi picking out the runs of Messi, Eto.o etc...It's all the same flow. He built a late legacy on the back of those passes.

 

This is what chatGPT says about defintions of genius and greatness. I like it:

"The distinction between genius and greatness in football lies in the different aspects of exceptionalism they emphasize:

Genius in Football:

1. Intrinsic Skill and Creativity:
   • Definition: A genius in football demonstrates extraordinary skill, vision, and creativity on the field, often performing at a level that significantly surpasses their peers.
   • Characteristics: Exceptional technical ability, tactical intelligence, innovative playmaking, remarkable dribbling, and precise passing.
   • Recognition: Admired for moments of brilliance, unique style, and the ability to execute difficult maneuvers under pressure.
   • Impact: Known for decisive contributions that influence the outcome of matches, regardless of the overall team's success.

Greatness in Football:

1. Sustained Excellence and Achievements:
   • Definition: Greatness in football is the quality of consistently excelling at the highest levels of the sport, achieving significant success and recognition through outstanding performances, leadership, and contributions to the team's victories.
   • Characteristics: Combination of exceptional talent, sustained excellence, leadership, resilience, and sportsmanship.
   • Recognition: Earns accolades such as championships, individual awards, and records, reflecting their impact on the sport over time.
   • Impact: Demonstrates the ability to inspire and elevate the performance of teammates, leaving a lasting legacy in the history of the game.

Key Differences:

• Focus: Genius is primarily about the extraordinary and often creative individual skill and moments of brilliance, while greatness encompasses sustained excellence, achievements, and leadership over time.
• Recognition: Genius is recognized through unique and exceptional on-field performances, whereas greatness is often recognized through accolades, awards, and long-term success.
• Impact: A football genius can influence the game significantly through individual moments, while a great player influences through consistent high-level performances, leadership, and contributions to team success."

Moments of genius, periods of greatness...

 

People who criticize Ronaldo's contributions and his qualities as a player have a fundamentally incomplete understanding of role/positions.
In a team playing with tactics necessitating classic center forward play - the idea that dropping to play cute passes with your DM is in any way more positive than stretching the field / occupying back line / dummy runs is fundamentally incorrect.
Cristiano is the supreme footballer. And he is capable of pretty much everything at a high level - and he molded his play for maximum efficiency.
He has top qualities as a passer. Top qualities as a dribbler. Top qualities in the air - whether defensively, second balls, first balls, goalscoring. Ambidextrous in his passing and shooting. Capable of hitting volleys. And of course, he is by far the modern player with the most goal contributions in clutch/difficult scenarios.

 

Ronaldo is capable of the impossible and has demonstrated time and time again moments of spontaneous genius. I cannot say the same of Messi who retained the same play templates for a whole career. He on the other hand has very few moments where he strays from his norm - some chip passes, a few scoops, a few cute new dribbles in 2007, a couple where he cut with his left instead of right. I am not even sure he has a single true volley goal.

 

@Tropeiro o gato comeu sua língua? Kkkjj

 

He is literally the best player in Champions League history, very arguably the toughest competition to ever exist - if that isn't considered transcending the common then I don't think you know the definitions of the words you use.

 

Funnily, you find similar references in the book about the 1992-93 season by James Dixon. It is really funny. Something like 'Van Basten scored x number of goals and that is more than these 14 Serie A teams'.

Cristiano Ronaldo had only three through-balls in 121 games for Juventus according to Whoscored. League plus CL.

For a dominant team that plays with a halfblock this aren't great figures.

 

He was still one of the best players in the league in Serie A, but not the clear-cut best attacker any more (Sofascore agrees) and people as Papu Gomez, Suso, Luis Alberto, Rodrigo de Paul, Insigne were maybe also not the same as 'rivals' (and ranked ahead of him) as what he had in the Premier League or La Liga.

 

What improvisation has Messi shown?

 

Why should he have more?

 

Hmm, maybe this ridiculous, gamewinning, flying volley kick from an awkward angle against Malaga in a game in which his teammates pissed their pants from a kick off (Barcelona won la liga by 1 point that season).



Maybe you will like this insane running volley with his right foot from a crazy angle after a near superhuman chest control in the air (that is not an exegarration) to win the game and complete a comeback against Racing in 81st minute. He came on as a substitute for 30 minutes and already scored the goal to tie the game 1-1.

"I think we said all about him in the past, but we are going to keep saying it anyway. I think only Lionel Messi can do this... and he is just easily the best player in the world for me." - the commentator said.
"Is there nothing this young man isn't capable of?" - the other one added.



Or maybe you will like the "bombasooooo" to tie the game against Sevilla and start one of the finest hattricks and performances the game has seen in a Barcelona season that can be found in Oxford's dictionary under the phrase "carry job."



How about a pre-assisted, diving, power volley in 88th minute to win the game and Spanish supercup against Real Madrid? That is a "cute" one.



Perhaps you like when ball is falling from the sky rather than being so close to the ground? Those are pretty difficult to hit with a proper techinque and with power, especially with perfect precision, right?



Bonus:

One of those "cute passes with DM" that Messi does all the time:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r9LlT1RYJq8&ab_channel=FootballPulp

 

To be honest, I see different figures according Fbref (who arguably uses OPTA as well)
In Fbref these are the figures for his full seasons at Juventus (18-19 - 20-21):

8 Through balls in Serie A (93.4 90s)
0 Through balls in UCL (22.5 90s)

Just for comparison:

Neymar his first three seasons at PSG (17-18 - 19-20)
119 Through balls in Ligue 1 (50.4 90s)
38 Through balls in UCL (19.4 90s)