Cristiano Ronaldo ~ Your Favorite Player Is So Much Better!! Thread

I've changed my mind on this whole subject and Ronaldo after all.
I think @Sexy Beast and @lessthanjake are right.

Ronaldo should have spent more time slowing attacks and accumulating touches and passes, generate a higher "Whoscored rating" instead of ONLY making one pass and scoring:

 

His response will be:
Well, he can't do BOTH at the same time - score a ton, and be implicated in ball progression.
The problem is when we highlight that Messi didn't score, his answer will predictably be that
Messi is implicated in ball progression (and not scoring). Which one is it???

 

Yes. They are all worried if he is going to head the ball on the ground and are confused all the time.

Otherwise youve pointed out that they score at the same rate for both strong and weak foot so again, by that logic there is no advantage in that regard whatsoever.

Not that this analysis has any merit in the first place. You cant measure threat like that.

Yes, Ronaldo has more aerial threat but so does Messi have more passing and dribbling threat, much more, to the point he is often man marked all over the pitch and heavily tackled as soon as he enters 30 meters radius.



Teams are literally so obsessed with stopping Messi that other players can simply walk past lines of defense with the ball.

To suggest IN ANY WAY that Messi is not a huge threat is ridiculous. As pointed out so many times and demonstrated by the video and this one as well:



Other teams and managers are obsessed with doing anything possible to stop Messi and even with such attention and specialized tacitcs and defenses to stop him, he manages to shine majority of time over everybody else.

I would love to see other players in Messis position.

This is value that is not measured by any football algorithm or statistic that is ever present with Messi just standing there.





"Messi doesnt possess the same level of threat"

Yeah, nobody else seems to agree with that.

 

I have gone ahead and looked at these players’ output in club matches against teams that were in the top 10 in elo rating that season (as defined by www.elofootball.com), during their goalscoring primes:

Messi vs. Top 10 Elo Opponents (2008-2009 to 2020-2021)

Goals per 90 mins: 0.64
Non-PK Goals per 90 mins: 0.53
Assists per 90 mins: 0.21
G+A per 90: 0.853
Non-PK G+A per 90: 0.735
Avg. WhoScored Rating: 8.12

Ronaldo vs. Top 10 Elo Opponents (2007-2008 to 2020-2021)

Goals per 90 mins: 0.75
Non-PK Goals per 90 mins: 0.56
Assists per 90 mins: 0.10
G+A per 90: 0.847
Non-PK G+A per 90: 0.654
Avg. WhoScored Rating: 7.61

Messi is ahead in G+A output against Top 10 elo rating opponents. He is also ahead by a good deal in WhoScored rating (note: we don’t have ratings for every match, but we have the vast majority of them).

If we instead go a bit broader in the years we consider their primes, and include Messi at PSG + Messi in the 2007-2008 season, and include Ronaldo in the 2021-2022 season and 2006-2007 season, we get the following:

Messi vs. Top 10 Elo Opponents (2007-2008 to 2022-2023)

Goals per 90 mins: 0.60
Non-PK Goals per 90 mins: 0.49
Assists per 90 mins: 0.21
G+A per 90: 0.811
Non-PK G+A per 90: 0.705
Avg. WhoScored Rating: 8.06

Ronaldo vs. Top 10 Elo Opponents (2006-2007 to 2021-2022)

Goals per 90 mins: 0.70
Non-PK Goals per 90 mins: 0.53
Assists per 90 mins: 0.10
G+A per 90: 0.798
Non-PK G+A per 90: 0.622
Avg. WhoScored Rating: 7.56

Once again, Messi is ahead in G+A output against Top 10 elo rating opponents. He is also ahead by a good deal in WhoScored rating.

Messi is the superior performer against Top 10 elo rating opponents. When we add this to the analysis previously done showing that Messi is the superior performer against higher-elo opponents, it is clear that Messi is simply the superior performer overall against tough opponents.

 

What are you talking about?

Are you suggesting that Messi wpuld pass backwards at any point in this attack?

Yeah. This is enough of this nonsense for awhile.

 

Didn’t count, but..

 

Messi in 2010 is a completely different player to Messi in 2016. If you think his abilities and qualities remained constant, I don't know what to tell you.
The Messi Mourinho was facing was an explosive monster athlete with ridiculous technical capability, playing for the "best team of all time". Do you not see the difference?

 

Huh? Re-read what you're writing, it's impertinent.

 

That is absolutely not a “big chance created.” Like, not even close.

 

Data manipulation, not even worth explaining why.

 

We have never seen Ronaldo do the precise things that Messi does (at remotely the same elite level and frequency), which is what you were positing he could do. He might’ve had a more midfield-like role in his early years, but he wasn’t doing the same stuff as Messi that you’re positing he absolutely could do at a similar level to Messi. And he also wasn’t scoring virtually at all, nor was he even remotely as good in those years as Messi anyways (the latter of which kind of defeats your point entirely—Ronaldo wasn’t nearly as good in a more midfield-like role as he was in a more dedicated goalscorer role, which is evidence he wasn’t as good at a more midfield-like role as Messi).

 

But Messi was never a midfielder! Make it make sense!

 

Weak foot chronicles part 4(passing continued)









Will return to this tomorrow

 

What? Ronaldo used to dominate and influence seemingly every single attack at United. He would get the ball deep in his own half and dribble the entire field repeatedly throughout a game and distribute the ball to shape attacks. For you to say otherwise is a sign that you didn't watch him enough at that time.

 

What? That is literally an 1v1 situation with the goalkeeper like 7 yards from the goal although at an acute angle. The finish were poor but the play were entirely created by Ronaldo

 

@SayWhatIWant
This(below)is not part of the ‘series’ and I already know how you “feel” about statistics/goals/assists/performances in America/Saudi but I will just make the point that what I have provided thus far is nothing

Yesterday we received confirmation that not only can cristiano score goals without even seeing where the goal is
He can score goals with his left foot without even seeing where the goal is.







Will return to the weak foot passing tomorrow.

 

Was he as good as prime Messi back then? No. And did he actually do a ton of the precise stuff that Messi does that you specifically talked about being easy and that Ronaldo could do just as well as Messi? No, not really, because he had a different role (more of a winger). All you’re saying is that there was a period of time in which Ronaldo was a really good player and not as a dedicated goalscorer. We all know that. It doesn’t actually demonstrate the point you were trying to make, though—which is that Ronaldo could do all the stuff Messi does just as well as Messi did them. In the time period you’re referring to, he didn’t do all the stuff Messi does, and he wasn’t as good as Messi anyways. Frankly, I don’t think Ronaldo himself would even make the claim that he can do all the stuff Messi does as well as Messi. It’s just a disrespectful and ridiculous claim.

 

Sorry, but no.



That is not even remotely close to “like 7 yards from the goal.” It is not a “big chance.” I mean, I guess the term “big chance created” is apparently subjective, but the angle and length from the goal makes it just like obviously not a “big chance.” Moreover, Simao himself obviously didn’t think it was a big chance, since he didn’t even go for a shot—he went for a cross. Maybe you were led astray by the weirdly zoomed angle from the video you’d linked to, where it was hard to actually see where the player got the ball, but surely you can concede now that your perception of that play was incorrect, given that your description of it above was just completely wrong.

 

@Sexy Beast bro I know reading is apparently hard but I put a comma and said " is it going to be a heading attempt or bicycle/acrobatic attempt"

+ then you mention Messi having more dribbling and passing threat in conversation about goal scoring really? the rest you’re only arguing with yourself bcz no one is saying Messi doesn’t have any threat lmaoo he just doesn’t have as much goal scoring threat as Ronaldo.

 

As we already know, Ronaldo spent most of his career deeper than Messi. There's this myth perptuated on this forum that Ronaldo played closer to the net. It's patently false and in fact a huge disservice to the work he had to put in.


There's a myth that Ronaldo is not a capable passer of the ball:


There's a myth that Ronaldo cannot advance the ball with ball at his feet:


There's a myth that Ronaldo can't produce through balls at an appreciable through-put:


There are many, many myths. Most of them involve projecting his playstyle of his last Madrid years 16-18 approx, to his entire career.

 

I'm watching old footage of Ronaldo and I'm coming out with the impression that this player may well have been the best of all time (best, not greatest).

 

What a find huh. This only proves what we have seen with our own eyes all these years. Most of Ronaldo's received passes are between zones 10 and 13. This is completely different from what @Sexy Beast has been preaching on that forum that Ronaldo just camped in the box. More evidence that he didn't watch Ronaldo and only knows him from YouTube clips

 

In his CL finals with Man Utd, he was lined up as a midfielder. But they "count" toward his Goal production analysis in finals. It's one big joke man.

 

Messi as a Right Forward. Ronaldo as Right Midfielder.

Ronaldo's journey is insane.
To go from a midfielder with no dedicated goalscoring training, to become history's greatest goalscorer is maybe the craziest transformation I have ever seen.

 

Weak foot chronicles part 5(passing continued)