Cristiano Ronaldo ~ Your Favorite Player Is So Much Better!! Thread

This is Greatness. If he scores in the next Copa Final and wins it Game over.

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The weak foot chronicles part 2

 

Jesus, the 2nd one is extroardinary! Never seen it!
The first basically shows he could've done that repetitive Messi-Alba pass in his sleep.

 

This idea that the stuff that Messi does is easy and that Cristiano Ronaldo could easily do it just as well is completely delusional, to put it mildly. I don’t even think Ronaldo himself would say it. Just completely disrespectful to Messi and other players who contribute at an elite level in those sorts of ways. But it’s also missing the fact that even if Ronaldo could do the things Messi does just as well, he wouldn’t be able to do those things while also doing all the things he did in reality. If Ronaldo dropped deep like Messi, Ronaldo would certainly score a lot less. There’s just this constant desire/need to create a Frankenstein version of Ronaldo where he contributes goals/assists as he did as a pretty dedicated goalscorer, while also contributing to build-up and progression as he hypothetically might if he played a much deeper role. That obviously never happened and is not realistic. If we’re at the point where, in order to compare to Messi, people need to posit a completely speculative and logically nonsensical version of Ronaldo that never existed and could never have existed, then it obviously goes without saying which player has the upper hand in reality.

 

did Cristiano ever dribbled past someone in the World Cup and then either created a Big Chance or scored a Goal in the Sample Size of 22 WC Games ?

 

The mythical Messi of being the best goalscorer and playmaker for x number of years has also been thoroughly deconstructed so no point holding Ronaldo to a standard nobody reached.

This ignores the fact that Ronaldo received the ball much farther from the net than Messi on average throughout his career. So it's a whole joke. Messi playim 2m passes dilly dallying and walking is offering a huge bonus. It's crazy because Messi maintained production with lower touch volume which shows those touches are just playstyle / tactical not some immense value Ronaldo's teams were missing from him.

 

You said that Ronaldo is a complete player who can pass as good as anyone, move off the ball, even play as a central midfielder. With that being said, for such a complete player it would be absolutely all the same if he played in whatever role on the pitch. He would have no preferences. He can do all.

So he would be positioned on the pitch and put in whatever role that has the most value. And since he is deployed vast majority of time on a recieving end of the passes (further up the pitch) that implies you believe that is the most valuable role by a lot.

The only other explanation is that he is actually underutilized by most managers in his career because he was mostly limited to specific and restrictive roles while in reality he could have done much more if he was given the ball.

Now you say something different that waste of time and skills "FROM RONALDO" implying that Ronaldo has certain strengths and weaknesses. So he is not complete player that can do everything including 8-9 diagonal passes per game or what Kroos does, etc.

Why is he better served "anticipating movements and running through defenders into space to force direct play and threaten the opposition"?

1. Is it because he is great at that and not as good in other areas of the game like passing?

2. Or because anticipating movements is much more difficult and valuable than passing and all the other stuff so he can make a greater impact in that area strictly from the tactical perspective?

One of that must be true for that statement to hold water.

Based on all of what you said, you think 1st question is affirmitive.

 

Are you claiming Messi who ran half the KMs that Ronaldo did in his entire career can play as a CM?
Also, Ronaldo on average received the ball further from the net than Messi in his career. The years this does not hold true are essentially 16 to 18. This is a fact.

 

Other member provided data that Ronaldo scores non-strong foot goals at a higher rate than Messi in some sample size in ucl and concluded that that is the reason why Ronaldo has a gap in terms of ucl goals.

You've repped that so you agree with that interpretation of data?

If you agree with interpreting data in that way, then you also agree that Messi's right foot is as good in ucl as Ronaldo's left foot, because based on that data as well and the same interpretation, they score weak foot goals at a similar rate in the same ucl sample size.

Now you say that there is not debate that Ronaldo is better at weak foot goals which goes completely against the data and the interpretation the other member provided.

And I agree

So we can conclude that the original interpretation of data and its conclusion (bolded) was wrong because that interpretation can't be correct when looking at non-strong foot goals, but incorrect when looking at weak foot goals only.

Conclusion: Data is misleading.

Get it?

 

I've never claimed that. I am not deluded. Messi is not some God who can do everything and everybody else is just a clog in a universe compared to him.

Neither should one deploy Messi as a centra midfielder, because player with his abilities can be much better used in more suitable roles.. the ones he played (minus few periods of times and some managers)

 

Right answer.
Does Messi have the capabilities of being deployed in the zones of a classic center forward?

 

I didn't say he couldn't. I've said that I had never claimed that, but will now. Yes, Messi could play as a central midfielder without a problem. He has all skills and talents necessary to do so, but he would have to drastically change his mentality and approach to the game which would actually take away so much of what made him great in the first place, plus he would be heavily underutilized.

He couldn't have played as a classic centre forward in million years if by that you mean truly classic and not Aguero type striker.

 

That's crazy to think that Messi could play as a CM. Absolutely crazy. The delusions of Messiphiles are endless.

 

The weak foot chronicles part 3

 

Another Messiphile who also just happens to be one of the best managers in history and one of the most influential football figures period.

Messi would have to run a lot more and press to play as a central midfielder, but it is not like Messi is physically incapable of covering 12k km per game, he just doesn't waste energy doing so because he plays in a different role and delegates his energy differently.

 

I'm going to take a statement that calls Messi the best number 4, number 5 a serious statement?
If this is the best evidence you can summon to support, I concede the discussion to you as I find us in silly waters.

That Messi is one of the best players of all time was never a question. It is an inarguable fact - that's not the subject of discussion.

First, yes, Messi is physically incapable of covering 12km in a game. This is not an opinion, it is a fact.

If your discussion is to attribute make-believe attributes to Messi. Then yes, he could be a CM
IF x, y, z attributes (that he doesn't have are fulfilled).

Could Benzema be a CM? No. Because CM is more than just passing quality. You seem to have a reductive view of a CM as a player with passing quality who runs a lot?

 

This is coming from the guy who said:

"The idea that Messi couldn’t score that way is silly. What happened is their midfield needed more help and at the same time they also got an elite striker (Suarez) who could make those runs extremely well, so it made sense for Messi to position deeper."

 

why do you copy arguments that are thrown your way? lol

Pep doesn't mean that literally. The point of his was that Messi is intelligent and versatile so he can do everything on the pitch (and by that he meant attacking-wise)

How should one respond to statement that Messi is physically incapable of covering 12 km in a match? That doesn't merits are response.

There is nothing to believe here. His role has overlapped with that of central midfielders attacking-wise for a very long time. There is actually proof he can do everything that Iniesta and Xavi did offensively. He would just need to put effort in defense and viola, he is a central midfielder with attacking tendencies.

 

0:30

 

The day you can demonstrate that Messi can run 12km in a match, is the day I can take what you said seriously.
Messi was literally puking on the field from exhaustion, and his father was complaining about his son's physical fatigue in the 2014 WC.
Do you think Messi could have sustained 60 game seasons with a higher work-rate? He would have picked up injuries and overloads along the way.

This is how I know you never played football at a good level.

 

The weak foot chronicles part 4




@SayWhatIWant
Stay with passes or move onto shots?

Goals will be last

 

You curiously cut off the sentence before that where I said “we’ve seen that countless times.” I wasn’t positing that Messi could do something we’ve not seen him do quite often, but rather was pointing out that the thing being discussed was something we’ve seen Messi do an absolute ton of times. Saying Messi can get on the end of through-balls at a high level is really not the same as saying that Ronaldo can build-up play and progress the ball from midfield at a high level. We’ve seen one a bunch, and we haven’t seen the other a bunch. That’s the whole point!

Now, if you want to posit that Messi can’t be getting on the end of through-balls a ton at an elite level while also building up play and progressing the ball from midfield a ton at an elite level, then I absolutely agree with you and, in fact, that’s been the whole premise of arguments I’ve been making in this thread (including the very post you just quoted), so it is impossible for me to understand how you’d think I was applying a different standard here. My arguments explicitly were based on the fact that a Frankenstein version of Messi can’t exist and that that fact explains certain changes in his output, while your argument is based on creating a Frankenstein version of Ronaldo.

 

Passes please. I will supplement your videos with analysis.

 

no and you’re missing the point is all about the threat that’s created from having such diverse weapons in your offensive arsenal a player like Cristiano will always make defenders guess is he going to shoot with his weak foot is he going to cut inside and shoot with right? is it gonna be header a bicycle attempt? that’s what makes him harder to stop hence more goals in UCL KOs.

Messi 8 weak foot goals in 77 matches: 0.104
+1 header

Ronaldo 9 weak foot goals in 85 matches: 0.106
+ 17 headers

 

The bolded part is "something we’ve seen Ronaldo do an absolute ton of times" when he were a right midfielder at ManU