How many assists per game in those games? How great were the assists? I'm finished now here though, sorry (and I'm sticking to this now - again no offence intended).
The real question to ask is, how many Champions League trophies during that period? The answer is, more than any other player or team (outside of his teammates and actual team). The player who scored by far the most goals, and had the most assists in that long-range period of 5+ years, had the most Champions League trophies by far. How great the assists or goals is, at the end of the day, unimportant because the least and greatest assist and goal actually produce what they are intended to produce - a team winning games, and eventually winning the competition they are in.
Lets break this down once and for all Cristiano Ronaldo 2004-2009(Manchester United era) 189 dribbles completed 4277 minutes played (47.5 matches) 189 - Cristiano Ronaldo completed 189 dribbles from 2003/04 season to 2008/09 (included) in Champions League. Break.— OptaJose (@OptaJose) May 7, 2020 Ronaldinho gaucho 2004-2008(Barcelona era) 112 dribbles completed 2993 CL minutes played (33.2 matches) https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/ron...rein=131&liga=&wettbewerb=CL&pos=&trainer_id= Arjen robben 2009/10 - 2018/19(Bayern Munich era) 157 dribbles completed 5155 CL mins played(57.2 matches) https://www.whoscored.com/Players/4173/History/Arjen-Robben Dribbles completed per 90 Cristiano Ronaldo Manchester United era 3.97 CL completed dribbles per 90 Ronaldinho Barcelona era 3.37 CL completed dribbles per 90 Arjen Robben Bayern Munich era 2.74 CL completed dribbles per 90 Open play Knockout stage goals+assists Ronaldinho gaucho 2004/05 to 2007/08 Barcelona era 3 non penalty goals+2 assists 1152 CL KO mins(12.8 matches) https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/ron...rein=131&liga=&wettbewerb=CL&pos=&trainer_id= https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/ron...er/3373/plus/0?saison_id=ges&wettbewerb_id=CL Arjen robben 2009/10 to 2018/19 Bayern Munich era 13 non pen goals+6 assists 3071 CL Ko stage mins(34.1 matches) https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/arj...iga/0/wettbewerb/CL/pos/0/trainer_id/0/plus/1 https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/arjen-robben/elfmetertore/spieler/4360 Cristiano Ronaldo 2003/04 to 2008/09 Manchester United era 10 non penalty goals+3 assists 1875 CL KO minutes(20.8 matches) https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/cri...rein=985&liga=&wettbewerb=CL&pos=&trainer_id= https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/cri...er/8198/plus/0?saison_id=ges&wettbewerb_id=CL Non penalty CL KO stage goals +assists Per 90 Cristiano Ronaldo Manchester United era 0.62 goals+assists per 90 Arjen robben Bayern Munich era 0.55 goals+assists per 90 Ronaldinho Barcelona era 0.39 goals+assists per 90 Could Van basten outdribble arjen robben and ronaldinho while simultaneously maintaining a higher non pen goals+assists per 90 rate in the CL KO stage? Never CF vs dynamic playmaker Van basten 1988/89 to 1992/93 Milan era(EC and CL) 24 to 27 years old 23 goals+7 assists in 2523 minutes(28 matches) Vs Cristiano Ronaldo 2009/10 to 2011/12 Champions league 24 to 27 years old 26 goals+8 assists in 2371 minutes(26.3 matches) Goals per 90 CR7=0.99 MVB=0.82 Assists per 90 CR7=0.30 MVB=0.25 https://es.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marco_van_Basten https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/mar...verein=&liga=&wettbewerb=EPL&pos=&trainer_id= https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/cristiano-ronaldo/leistungsdatendetails/spieler/8198
Ok mate, thanks. I will stop now though, or I never will be able to lol (there are things I could say re: Carlito's post he just made, and also your one above this one I'm quoting, but I kind of already said them in both cases anyway, and people can make their own minds up and those that already agree with me will know why already too I guess).
Im making a claim Van basten has never at any stage of his career demonstrated this level of all round play/involvement/end product against any competitive opponent in the world cup/european championship/European cup/Champions league 2018/19 Juventus 2183 points Vs Atletico madrid 2164 points =19 points difference http://elofootball.com/index.php?season=2018-2019#club Cristiano Ronaldo 3 goals 13 dribbles completed 3 key passes 77 passes 140 touches 2 matches =34 years old https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/1...ons-League-2018-2019-Atletico-Madrid-Juventus https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/1...ons-League-2018-2019-Juventus-Atletico-Madrid For reference 2014/15 Barcelona 2382 Elo point's Vs Bayern Munich 2238 Elo points =144 points difference http://elofootball.com/index.php?season=2014-2015#club Lionel Messi 2 goals+1 assist 11 dribbles completed 4 key passes 85 passes 135 touches 2 matches https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/9...ions-League-2014-2015-Barcelona-Bayern-Munich https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/9...ions-League-2014-2015-Bayern-Munich-Barcelona 2018/19 Liverpool 2332 Elo points Vs Barcelona 2294 points =38 points difference http://elofootball.com/index.php?season=2018-2019#club Lionel Messi 2 goals 13 dribbles completed 4 Key passes 78 passes 135 touches 2 matches https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/1...hampions-League-2018-2019-Barcelona-Liverpool https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/1...hampions-League-2018-2019-Liverpool-Barcelona
15 all round brilliant performances completely out of Marco van bastens reach I will post 4 to 5 per day 2018/19 Juventus 2183 points Vs Atletico madrid 2164 points =19 points difference http://elofootball.com/index.php?season=2018-2019#club deep stats 3 goals out of 3 team goals(100% involvement) 13 dribbles completed 3 key passes 77 passes 140 touches 2 matches Deep stats per 90 6.5 dribbles per 90 38.5 passes per 90 70 touches per 90 https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/1...ons-League-2018-2019-Atletico-Madrid-Juventus https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/1...ons-League-2018-2019-Juventus-Atletico-Madrid 2012/13 Real Madrid 2263 elo points Manchester City 2130 points =133 points difference http://elofootball.com/index.php?season=2012-2013#club Scored the Match winning goal 12 completed dribbles 8 key passes 89 passes 146 touches 2 matches https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/6...-League-2012-2013-Real-Madrid-Manchester-City https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/6...-League-2012-2013-Manchester-City-Real-Madrid Deep stats per 90 6 dribbles per 90 4 key passes per 90 44.5 passes per 90 73 touches per 90 2011/12 3 non pen goals+1 assist out of 5 team goals vs 4th place la liga team Malaga(2 matches) This with 146 touches(73 touches 90) 102 passes(51 passes per 90) https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/523129/Preview/Spain-LaLiga-2011-2012-Malaga-Real-Madrid https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/523303/LiveStatistics/Spain-LaLiga-2011-2012-Real-Madrid-Malaga Touch map of a playmaker(away vs Malaga in October 2011) He scored a hattrick from open play with this heatmap against a periodic top 4 league team. Away vs Osasuna 2011/12 On par with Ronaldo nazario vs Valencia 1996/97 Or Messi vs real zaragoza 2009/10 As a 'one man army' performance' One of the best individual performances of all time IMO and probably if not definitely my favourite from him You can only laugh when someone has him rated 1/5 for playmaking (below Gerd muller) I dont say he was like this every other Matchday because if he was hed be an even better player then Lionel messi was but there are shades of Eusebio and Luis figo in this virtuoso performance of his. I dispute that Marco van basten could ever look like the best forward in the world and the best winger in the world at the same time and in the same match
Club Cristiano Ronaldo 02/03 to 12/13 2× European golden shoe 2007/08 and 2010/11 2×champions league top scorer 2007/08 and 2012/13 1× champions league top dribbler 2006/07 82 - Lionel Messi has completed more dribbles in the CL this season than any other player since his debut. Magician. pic.twitter.com/hAtSfV872M— OptaJohan (@OptaJohan) June 6, 2015 Most dribbles completed in the premier league 2004-2009 506 - @Cristiano completed 506 dribbles in the @premierleague, more than any other player in the competition between 2003 & 2009. Ability#AskOpta#AskOptaJosé#StayHome #StayAtHome https://t.co/mM8kPAkhrk pic.twitter.com/0NTToOpCjM— OptaJose (@OptaJose) May 14, 2020 Most fouls won in the premier league 2004-2009 727 - Kevin Davies is the most fouled player in the last 10 Premier League seasons, ahead of @Cristiano 500. Bruised. #AskOpta @dclark0— OptaJoe (@OptaJoe) October 5, 2012 CR 03/04 to 08/09 500 fouls won in 14541 minutes 3.09 fouls won per 90 https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/cri...etails/spieler/8198/wettbewerb/GB1/verein/985 Kevin Davis 02/03 to 08/09 522 fouls won in 17991 PL minutes 2.61 fouls won per 90 https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/kevin-davies/leistungsdatendetails/spieler/4114/wettbewerb/GB1 Kevin davis 09/10 to 11/12 205 fouls won in 8573 PL minutes 2.15 fouls won per 90 https://www.whoscored.com/Players/233/History/Kevin-Davies Marco van basten 1× European championship top scorer 1988 1× European golden shoe 1985/86 1× European cup top scorer 1988/89 International Van basten World cup/world cup qualification 2 goals+3 assists in 1521 minutes(17~ matches) 0.29 goals+assists per 90 Cristiano Ronaldo 02/03 to 12/13 World cup/world cup qualification 10 goals+12 assists in 2896 minutes(32 matches) 0.68 goals+assists per 90 Van basten EURO/European championship qualification 16 goals+2 assists in 2105 minutes(23~ matches) 0.77 goals+assists per 90 Cristiano Ronaldo 02/03 to 12/13 Euro/Euro qualification 19 goals+10 assists 2817 minutes(31~ matches) 0.92 goals+assists per 90 https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/cri...pieler/8198/hauptwettbewerb/WM/verein_id/3300 https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/marco-van-basten/nationalmannschaft/spieler/74471 2nd most goal involvements in European championship history 2004,2008 and 2012 5 - Top five goal involvement at Euros (Goals + Assists): 1. Platini 10, 2. Ronaldo 9, 3= Bergkamp, Klinsmann and Poborsky 8. Heroes— OptaJoe (@OptaJoe) June 27, 2012 World of difference
110+ great assists by Cristiano Ronaldo The first compilation of its type i think available on YouTube I couldn't say it better then someone did in the comment section I actually think his longevity has affected his legacy. We really are going to see an entire generation believe Ronaldo was a poacher. This was a player in his prime who absolutely excelled at everything. Crazy to think how long ago his prime was now. Going to be a sad day for the sport when he retires.
Marco van basten Serie A 1987/88 to 1990/91 39 non penalty goals 8568 minutes(95.2 matches) 0.40 non penalty league goals per 90 https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/marco-van-basten/leistungsdatendetails/spieler/74471 Cristiano Ronaldo La liga 2010/11 to 2012/13 22 left foot goals https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/cri...ewerb=ES1&pos=&minute=&pos=&torart=201&stand= 17 headers https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/cri...ewerb=ES1&pos=&minute=&pos=&torart=203&stand= 8983 league minutes(99.8 matches) 0.39 left foot goals/headers per 90
Legit Phenomenon vs super player Cristiano Ronaldo la liga 2014/15 Peak half season 25 goals+8 assists 7 penalties 55 team goals 1248 minutes(13.8 matches) 60% direct involvement with penalties 47% direct involvement without penalties https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/cri...sdaten/spieler/8198/saison/2014/wettbewerb/CL https://www.whoscored.com/Articles/...-Liga-201415-Winter-Break-Statistical-Roundup Marco van basten Serie A 1991/92 Peak full season 25 goals+11 assists 9 penalties 74 team goals 2665 minutes (29.6 matches) 49% direct involvement with penalties 36% direct involvement without penalties https://www.transfermarkt.com/marco...71/saison/1991/wettbewerb/IT1/sort/wettbewerb https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1991–92_Serie_A Its easy to talk about goal contribution stats and make it look close between a winger and striker The one time peak Cristiano played as a striker in la liga he matched Marco van basten best ever Serie A return playing in 16 less matches,taking 2 less penalties and on a team that scored 19 less goals This with a all round game that was still orders of magnitude superior to MVB(leading in key passes when peak Messi was in the league is something even Maradona could dream of let alone van basten) 11 MOTM awards in 14 matches says it all really
Dribbling extraordinaire 2003/04 to 2008/09 506 - @Cristiano completed 506 dribbles in the @premierleague, more than any other player in the competition between 2003 & 2009. Ability#AskOpta#AskOptaJosé#StayHome #StayAtHome https://t.co/mM8kPAkhrk pic.twitter.com/0NTToOpCjM— OptaJose (@OptaJose) May 14, 2020 https://www.goal.com/en/news/9/engl...stiano-ronaldo-reminds-me-of-george-best-pele Goalscoring extraordinaire Gerd muller bayern Munich 563 goals in 605 matches 0.93 goals per match https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerd_Müller Cristiano Ronaldo 2009/10 until today(16th December 2021) 564 goals in 590 matches 0.96 goals per match https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cristiano_Ronaldo Best European attacker bar non
....... Its so sad .... is missing or lacking ...so many many assists ...by Marco van basten ... in the him career ..... honestly .... i can't define ..who's the best between ...C.ronaldo vs Van Basten ... !! it's harder ... to define Why ??? is missing ... assists ... and pre-assists ... I saw once so many many games Van Basten ... in 1984/85 ... really amazing ... 20 assists ...in eredivisie !!!
I don't know about his assist totals in the Netherlands (I know you have a good memory about it and also look at as many Youtube videos as available as you were doing with Gullit), but you might be interested to know his ratings on DBS Calcio (recently updated with Ajax ones from the Eredivisie games) 1992/93 Serie A 15 6.57 C 0 6.31 1991/92 Serie A 31 6.44 C 1 6.06 1990/91 Serie A 31 6.03 C 10 5.85 1989/90 Serie A 26 6.42 C 1 6.21 1988/89 Serie A 33 6.33 C 5 6.11 1987/88 Serie A 10 5.80 C 0 5.44 1986/87 Eredivisie 26 6.98 C 1 6.49 1985/86 Eredivisie 26 6.83 C 1 6.39 1984/85 Eredivisie 31 6.39 C 1 6.20 1983/84 Eredivisie 24 6.46 C 1 6.14 1982/83 Eredivisie 12 5.58 C 0 5.67 1981/82 Eredivisie 1 6.00 C 0 5.88 I remember Puck saying that in 1984/85 he had a little spell of 'dodgy' form at some point, but I know he also had some exceptional goals and according to your estimations a very good tally of assists too. The ratings (according to the source used) being better in the next two seasons (of course for calendar year 1985 he was Dutch Player of the Year though).
Also for Cruyff: 983/84 Eredivisie 31 7.03 ACS 2 6.78 1982/83 Eredivisie 21 6.81 INC 1 6.90 dic 81 Eredivisie 15 7.03 ACS 0 6.92 lug 81 Major League Soccer 0 - 0 - gen 81 10 6.50 C 0 - 1980 Major League Soccer 0 - 0 - 1979 Major League Soccer 0 - 0 - 1977/78 Liga 25 7.28 C 1 6.67 1976/77 Liga 29 7.24 C 1 6.95 1975/76 Liga 29 6.62 C 1 6.72 1974/75 Liga 30 6.50 C 0 6.33 set 73 Liga 26 7.12 C 0 6.57 1973/74 Eredivisie 2 9.00 C 0 9.00 1972/73 Eredivisie 26 6.75 C 1 6.28 1971/72 Eredivisie 30 7.47 ACS 1 6.80 1970/71 Eredivisie 24 7.06 ACS 1 6.61 1969/70 Eredivisie 33 7.14 ACS 1 6.68 1968/69 Eredivisie 28 7.14 ACS 1 6.84 1967/68 Eredivisie 33 7.30 C 1 6.81 1966/67 Eredivisie 30 7.40 SP 1 6.88 Some of the Spanish ones at least must be converted from a different scale (not 1-10) I think - 73/74 will be anyway I guess, so I think it's not certain that that season is lower-rated than his final two Barcelona ones (all of the ratings are converted to meet the DBS Calcio standard as well).
For Gullit only the 1983/84 season is there from his Eredivisie time at the moment: 1997/98 Premier League (EN) 3 6.50 ACS 0 6.39 1996/97 Premier League (EN) 10 6.50 ACS 0 6.42 1995/96 Premier League (EN) 30 6.95 LCD 1 6.84 nov 94 Serie A 22 6.25 C 5 6.11 1994/95 Serie A 8 6.44 C 5 6.24 1993/94 Serie A 30 6.92 C 1 6.68 1992/93 Serie A 15 6.67 SP 0 6.41 1991/92 Serie A 25 6.50 ACD 2 6.12 1990/91 Serie A 26 6.31 SP 5 6.13 1989/90 Serie A 2 6.50 SP 0 6.28 1988/89 Serie A 19 6.39 SP 4 6.17 1987/88 Serie A 27 6.76 SP 1 6.40 1986/87 Eredivisie 0 - 0 - 1985/86 Eredivisie 0 - 0 - 1984/85 Eredivisie 0 - 0 - 1983/84 Eredivisie 31 6.58 INC 2 6.32
As a final bonus, Johan the 2nd (Neeskens): 1978/79 Liga 30 6.58 ACS 4 6.35 1977/78 Liga 17 7.32 INC 1 6.72 1976/77 Liga 33 6.80 MCC 1 6.51 1975/76 Liga 31 6.84 MCC 1 6.93 1974/75 Liga 26 6.62 MCC 0 6.45 1972/73 Eredivisie 32 6.59 MCC 1 6.12 1971/72 Eredivisie 27 6.80 MCC 1 6.13 1970/71 Eredivisie 32 6.47 MCC 1 6.02
Puck van Heel .. he's still alive on earth ???? well i hope so ... yes .... i liked the him posts ... so much .... almost like a him fan ... hahaha !!! but Marco van Basten ... 1984/85 .... i saw so many many games from this season ... really amazing ...in my view ... 20 assists and 22 goals ... !! without injuries ...so much agility ...technique ...dribbling ...etc,...!!!
.... on Ruud Gullit .... 1983/84 ... were .. 45 matches ... 25 goals .... 27 assists ....10 pre-assists or key plays and played as a goalkeeper in the Uefa Cup 1983/84 ... 22 assists in the eredivisie ... confirmed.. 5 assists KNVb Cup from Holland .... against Ajax rematch ...for Houtman ...in the final Houtman .. again .. and more 3 assists .. on a game that was .. 7 x 1 ... also confirmed ...!! really amazing .... Gullit ...Eredivisie 1982/83 .. 15 assists .... 1983/84 22 assists .... 1984/85 .. 8 assists .... 1985/86 ... 19 assists .... 1986/87 ... 17 assists ...
they are considering What ???? what's the criterios ... to the notes ... ???? really ... i don't understood this !
I think it is the media ratings from the league games (for example it could be from Voetbal International for the Netherlands....but maybe not, I don't know) combined into an average, and then converted to the DBS Calcio standard (akin to typical ratings in Italian football, and depending on how generous the ratings are for all players with each source - the original ratings are reduced by more if the ratings tend to be more generous). I hope that I explained it as well as I can! For example, here the DBS Calcio results for English league 1991/92, derived from ratings given by Shoot magazine: https://www.bigsoccer.com/threads/p...ivision-ratings.2037606/page-35#post-41784092 Here was the original list of top average ratings as awarded by Shoot (before conversion for DBS Calcio): https://www.bigsoccer.com/threads/p...ivision-ratings.2037606/page-34#post-41722414
...... well I liked much more the criterios ...of the Football Manager simulators as a coach ... for example .... matches ... goals .... assists .... pre-assists ....tacklings won .... headers won .... covers to the team ... duels won .... passing accuracy ... chances created ... ( clear chances ) ... attack set pieces ... defending set pices ... ( near post ... far post ... six yards ... penalty area ... zone 14 etc.. ) ... attack movements ..the most importants ..into the game ( overlapping movements ... underlapping movements ... ) work ethic ... fouls received ... etc .... so after all ..... they have one note !! into the game .... 7.93 ... higher notes til 10 !
........ also ... dribbles completed ... for example Messi 110 dribbles ..... Garrincha 109 dribbles .... Diego Armando Maradona ... 106 dribbles .... Jairzinho 79 dribbles ..... Edson Arantes Pelé ... 78 dribbles completed ...in all World Cups etc.... But ... is lesser important than ..all the others before !!!