Cristiano Ronaldo (-12/13) vs Van Basten

Discussion in 'The Beautiful Game' started by Tropeiro, Dec 24, 2019.

?

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  1. Van Basten

    17 vote(s)
    50.0%
  2. Cristiano Ronaldo

    17 vote(s)
    50.0%
  1. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    How many assists per game in those games? How great were the assists?

    I'm finished now here though, sorry (and I'm sticking to this now - again no offence intended).
     
  2. benficafan3

    benficafan3 Member+

    Nov 16, 2005
    The real question to ask is, how many Champions League trophies during that period? The answer is, more than any other player or team (outside of his teammates and actual team). The player who scored by far the most goals, and had the most assists in that long-range period of 5+ years, had the most Champions League trophies by far.

    How great the assists or goals is, at the end of the day, unimportant because the least and greatest assist and goal actually produce what they are intended to produce - a team winning games, and eventually winning the competition they are in.
     
  3. benficafan3

    benficafan3 Member+

    Nov 16, 2005
    And I didn't take any offense pal. I trust you didn't either. All just good discussion.
     
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  4. carlito86

    carlito86 Member+

    Jan 11, 2016
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    #104 carlito86, Jul 20, 2021
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2021
    Lets break this down once and for all

    Cristiano Ronaldo
    maxresdefault.jpg

    2004-2009(Manchester United era)
    189 dribbles completed
    4277 minutes played (47.5 matches)


    Ronaldinho gaucho
    ronaldinho-barcelona_1slsxexo4gn5z1m0cln77mlj3h.jpg

    2004-2008(Barcelona era)
    112 dribbles completed
    2993 CL minutes played (33.2 matches)
    En2grqBWMAwEAsq-1.jpg
    https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/ron...rein=131&liga=&wettbewerb=CL&pos=&trainer_id=


    Arjen robben
    arjen_robben_bayern_-1.jpg
    2009/10 - 2018/19(Bayern Munich era)
    157 dribbles completed
    5155 CL mins played(57.2 matches)
    https://www.whoscored.com/Players/4173/History/Arjen-Robben






    Dribbles completed per 90

    Cristiano Ronaldo
    Manchester United era
    3.97 CL completed dribbles per 90


    Ronaldinho
    Barcelona era
    3.37 CL completed dribbles per 90


    Arjen Robben
    Bayern Munich era
    2.74 CL completed dribbles per 90


    Open play Knockout stage goals+assists

    Ronaldinho gaucho
    2004/05 to 2007/08
    Barcelona era


    3 non penalty goals+2 assists
    1152 CL KO mins(12.8 matches)
    https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/ron...rein=131&liga=&wettbewerb=CL&pos=&trainer_id=
    https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/ron...er/3373/plus/0?saison_id=ges&wettbewerb_id=CL




    Arjen robben
    2009/10 to 2018/19
    Bayern Munich era


    13 non pen goals+6 assists
    3071 CL Ko stage mins(34.1 matches)
    https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/arj...iga/0/wettbewerb/CL/pos/0/trainer_id/0/plus/1
    https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/arjen-robben/elfmetertore/spieler/4360




    Cristiano Ronaldo
    2003/04 to 2008/09
    Manchester United era

    10 non penalty goals+3 assists
    1875 CL KO minutes(20.8 matches)
    https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/cri...rein=985&liga=&wettbewerb=CL&pos=&trainer_id=
    https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/cri...er/8198/plus/0?saison_id=ges&wettbewerb_id=CL


    Non penalty CL KO stage goals +assists Per 90

    Cristiano Ronaldo
    Manchester United era
    0.62 goals+assists per 90


    Arjen robben
    Bayern Munich era
    0.55 goals+assists per 90


    Ronaldinho
    Barcelona era
    0.39 goals+assists per 90


    Could Van basten outdribble arjen robben and ronaldinho while simultaneously maintaining a higher non pen goals+assists per 90 rate in the CL KO stage?

    Never










    CF vs dynamic playmaker
    Van basten 1988/89 to 1992/93
    0001EHU9DYOKR6MJ-C125-F4.jpg
    Milan era(EC and CL)
    24 to 27 years old

    23 goals+7 assists in 2523 minutes(28 matches)

    Vs

    Cristiano Ronaldo
    real-madrid-s-portuguese-forward-cristia-5b45da69347a028c1e00001c.jpg
    2009/10 to 2011/12 Champions league
    24 to 27 years old

    26 goals+8 assists in 2371 minutes(26.3 matches)


    Goals per 90
    CR7=0.99
    MVB=0.82

    Assists per 90
    CR7=0.30
    MVB=0.25

    https://es.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marco_van_Basten
    https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/mar...verein=&liga=&wettbewerb=EPL&pos=&trainer_id=
    https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/cristiano-ronaldo/leistungsdatendetails/spieler/8198

     
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  5. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    Ok mate, thanks.

    I will stop now though, or I never will be able to lol (there are things I could say re: Carlito's post he just made, and also your one above this one I'm quoting, but I kind of already said them in both cases anyway, and people can make their own minds up and those that already agree with me will know why already too I guess).
     
  6. carlito86

    carlito86 Member+

    Jan 11, 2016
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    #106 carlito86, Jul 20, 2021
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2021
    Im making a claim

    Van basten has never at any stage of his career demonstrated this level of all round play/involvement/end product against any competitive opponent in the world cup/european championship/European cup/Champions league


    2018/19

    Juventus
    2183 points

    Vs

    Atletico madrid
    2164 points
    =19 points difference
    http://elofootball.com/index.php?season=2018-2019#club



    Cristiano Ronaldo
    3 goals
    13 dribbles completed
    3 key passes
    77 passes

    140 touches
    2 matches

    =34 years old

    https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/1...ons-League-2018-2019-Atletico-Madrid-Juventus
    https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/1...ons-League-2018-2019-Juventus-Atletico-Madrid



    For reference



    2014/15

    Barcelona
    2382 Elo point's

    Vs

    Bayern Munich
    2238 Elo points

    =144 points difference
    http://elofootball.com/index.php?season=2014-2015#club

    Lionel Messi
    2 goals+1 assist
    11 dribbles completed

    4 key passes
    85 passes
    135 touches

    2 matches

    https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/9...ions-League-2014-2015-Barcelona-Bayern-Munich
    https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/9...ions-League-2014-2015-Bayern-Munich-Barcelona

    2018/19

    Liverpool
    2332 Elo points

    Vs

    Barcelona
    2294 points

    =38 points difference
    http://elofootball.com/index.php?season=2018-2019#club

    Lionel Messi
    2 goals
    13 dribbles completed
    4 Key passes
    78 passes
    135 touches

    2 matches

    https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/1...hampions-League-2018-2019-Barcelona-Liverpool
    https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/1...hampions-League-2018-2019-Liverpool-Barcelona

     
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  7. carlito86

    carlito86 Member+

    Jan 11, 2016
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    #107 carlito86, Jul 23, 2021
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2021
    15 all round brilliant performances completely out of Marco van bastens reach

    I will post 4 to 5 per day


    2018/19

    Juventus
    2183 points

    Vs

    Atletico madrid
    2164 points
    =19 points difference
    http://elofootball.com/index.php?season=2018-2019#club



    deep stats
    3 goals out of 3 team goals(100% involvement)
    13 dribbles completed
    3 key passes
    77 passes
    140 touches

    2 matches

    Deep stats per 90

    6.5 dribbles per 90
    38.5 passes per 90
    70 touches per 90
    https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/1...ons-League-2018-2019-Atletico-Madrid-Juventus
    https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/1...ons-League-2018-2019-Juventus-Atletico-Madrid



    2012/13

    Real Madrid
    2263 elo points

    Manchester City
    2130 points

    =133 points difference
    http://elofootball.com/index.php?season=2012-2013#club

    Scored the Match winning goal
    12 completed dribbles
    8 key passes
    89 passes
    146 touches
    2 matches
    https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/6...-League-2012-2013-Real-Madrid-Manchester-City

    https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/6...-League-2012-2013-Manchester-City-Real-Madrid


    Deep stats per 90
    6 dribbles per 90
    4 key passes per 90
    44.5 passes per 90
    73 touches per 90


    2011/12
    3 non pen goals+1 assist out of 5 team goals vs 4th place la liga team Malaga(2 matches)



    This with
    146 touches(73 touches 90)
    102 passes(51 passes per 90)

    https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/523129/Preview/Spain-LaLiga-2011-2012-Malaga-Real-Madrid
    https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/523303/LiveStatistics/Spain-LaLiga-2011-2012-Real-Madrid-Malaga
    Touch map of a playmaker(away vs Malaga in October 2011)

    Screenshot_20210722-114310-1.jpg
    He scored a hattrick from open play with this heatmap against a periodic top 4 league team.




    Away vs Osasuna 2011/12


    On par with Ronaldo nazario vs Valencia 1996/97
    Or Messi vs real zaragoza 2009/10
    As a 'one man army' performance'

    One of the best individual performances of all time IMO and probably if not definitely my favourite from him
    You can only laugh when someone has him rated 1/5 for playmaking (below Gerd muller)

    I dont say he was like this every other Matchday because if he was hed be an even better player then Lionel messi was but there are shades of Eusebio and Luis figo in this virtuoso performance of his.

    I dispute that Marco van basten could ever look like the best forward in the world and the best winger in the world at the same time and in the same match


     
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  8. carlito86

    carlito86 Member+

    Jan 11, 2016
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Club

    Cristiano Ronaldo 02/03 to 12/13

    2× European golden shoe
    2007/08 and 2010/11

    2×champions league top scorer
    2007/08 and 2012/13

    1× champions league top dribbler
    2006/07


    Most dribbles completed in the premier league
    2004-2009


    Most fouls won in the premier league
    2004-2009


    CR 03/04 to 08/09
    500 fouls won in 14541 minutes
    3.09 fouls won per 90
    https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/cri...etails/spieler/8198/wettbewerb/GB1/verein/985

    Kevin Davis 02/03 to 08/09
    522 fouls won in 17991 PL minutes
    2.61 fouls won per 90
    https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/kevin-davies/leistungsdatendetails/spieler/4114/wettbewerb/GB1

    Kevin davis 09/10 to 11/12
    205 fouls won in 8573 PL minutes
    2.15 fouls won per 90
    https://www.whoscored.com/Players/233/History/Kevin-Davies









    Marco van basten
    1× European championship top scorer
    1988

    1× European golden shoe
    1985/86

    1× European cup top scorer
    1988/89



    International

    Van basten
    World cup/world cup qualification


    2 goals+3 assists in 1521 minutes(17~ matches)
    0.29 goals+assists per 90


    Cristiano Ronaldo 02/03 to 12/13
    World cup/world cup qualification


    10 goals+12 assists in 2896 minutes(32 matches)
    0.68 goals+assists per 90





    Van basten
    EURO/European championship qualification


    16 goals+2 assists in 2105 minutes(23~ matches)
    0.77 goals+assists per 90



    Cristiano Ronaldo 02/03 to 12/13
    Euro/Euro qualification


    19 goals+10 assists 2817 minutes(31~ matches)
    0.92 goals+assists per 90


    https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/cri...pieler/8198/hauptwettbewerb/WM/verein_id/3300
    https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/marco-van-basten/nationalmannschaft/spieler/74471

    2nd most goal involvements in European championship history
    2004,2008 and 2012


    World of difference
     
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  9. carlito86

    carlito86 Member+

    Jan 11, 2016
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Top 50 goals
    2003/04 to 2012/13
     
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  10. carlito86

    carlito86 Member+

    Jan 11, 2016
    Club:
    Real Madrid

    110+ great assists by Cristiano Ronaldo

    The first compilation of its type i think available on YouTube

    I couldn't say it better then someone did in the comment section
    I actually think his longevity has affected his legacy. We really are going to see an entire generation believe Ronaldo was a poacher. This was a player in his prime who absolutely excelled at everything. Crazy to think how long ago his prime was now. Going to be a sad day for the sport when he retires.
     
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  11. carlito86

    carlito86 Member+

    Jan 11, 2016
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Marco van basten Serie A
    1987/88 to 1990/91

    39 non penalty goals

    8568 minutes(95.2 matches)
    0.40 non penalty league goals per 90
    https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/marco-van-basten/leistungsdatendetails/spieler/74471






    Cristiano Ronaldo La liga
    2010/11 to 2012/13

    22 left foot goals
    https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/cri...ewerb=ES1&pos=&minute=&pos=&torart=201&stand=

    17 headers
    https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/cri...ewerb=ES1&pos=&minute=&pos=&torart=203&stand=


    8983 league minutes(99.8 matches)
    0.39 left foot goals/headers per 90
     
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  12. carlito86

    carlito86 Member+

    Jan 11, 2016
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Legit Phenomenon vs super player


    Cristiano Ronaldo la liga 2014/15

    Peak half season
    2014_12_La-Liga-Season.jpg

    25 goals+8 assists
    7 penalties
    55 team goals
    1248 minutes(13.8 matches)

    60% direct involvement with penalties
    47% direct involvement without penalties

    https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/cri...sdaten/spieler/8198/saison/2014/wettbewerb/CL
    https://www.whoscored.com/Articles/...-Liga-201415-Winter-Break-Statistical-Roundup





    Marco van basten Serie A 1991/92
    Peak full season


    25 goals+11 assists
    9 penalties
    74 team goals
    2665 minutes (29.6 matches)

    49% direct involvement with penalties
    36% direct involvement without penalties

    https://www.transfermarkt.com/marco...71/saison/1991/wettbewerb/IT1/sort/wettbewerb
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1991–92_Serie_A





    Its easy to talk about goal contribution stats and make it look close between a winger and striker

    The one time peak Cristiano played as a striker in la liga he matched Marco van basten best ever Serie A return playing in 16 less matches,taking 2 less penalties and on a team that scored 19 less goals

    This with a all round game that was still orders of magnitude superior to MVB(leading in key passes when peak Messi was in the league is something even Maradona could dream of let alone van basten)

    11 MOTM awards in 14 matches says it all really
     
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  13. carlito86

    carlito86 Member+

    Jan 11, 2016
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    #113 carlito86, Dec 16, 2021
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2021
    Dribbling extraordinaire

    2003/04 to 2008/09


    https://www.goal.com/en/news/9/engl...stiano-ronaldo-reminds-me-of-george-best-pele






    Goalscoring extraordinaire

    Gerd muller bayern Munich
    563 goals in 605 matches
    0.93 goals per match
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerd_Müller


    Cristiano Ronaldo 2009/10 until today(16th December 2021)
    564 goals in 590 matches
    0.96 goals per match
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cristiano_Ronaldo

    Best European attacker bar non
     
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  14. deathgang12

    deathgang12 New Member

    A.C MILAN
    Italy
    Jun 7, 2021
    how can a guy make threads around here? i cant
     
  15. Wiliam Felipe Gracek

    Santos FC
    France
    Feb 3, 2024


    ....... Its so sad .... is missing or lacking ...so many many assists ...by Marco van basten ... in the him career ..... honestly .... i can't define ..who's the best between ...C.ronaldo vs Van Basten ... !! it's harder ... to define Why ??? is missing ... assists ... and pre-assists ... I saw once so many many games Van Basten ... in 1984/85 ... really amazing ... 20 assists ...in eredivisie !!!
     
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  16. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    I don't know about his assist totals in the Netherlands (I know you have a good memory about it and also look at as many Youtube videos as available as you were doing with Gullit), but you might be interested to know his ratings on DBS Calcio (recently updated with Ajax ones from the Eredivisie games)

    1992/93 Serie A 15 6.57 C 0 6.31
    1991/92 Serie A 31 6.44 C 1 6.06
    1990/91 Serie A 31 6.03 C 10 5.85
    1989/90 Serie A 26 6.42 C 1 6.21
    1988/89 Serie A 33 6.33 C 5 6.11
    1987/88 Serie A 10 5.80 C 0 5.44
    1986/87 Eredivisie 26 6.98 C 1 6.49
    1985/86 Eredivisie 26 6.83 C 1 6.39
    1984/85 Eredivisie 31 6.39 C 1 6.20
    1983/84 Eredivisie 24 6.46 C 1 6.14
    1982/83 Eredivisie 12 5.58 C 0 5.67
    1981/82 Eredivisie 1 6.00 C 0 5.88

    I remember Puck saying that in 1984/85 he had a little spell of 'dodgy' form at some point, but I know he also had some exceptional goals and according to your estimations a very good tally of assists too. The ratings (according to the source used) being better in the next two seasons (of course for calendar year 1985 he was Dutch Player of the Year though).
     
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  17. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    Also for Cruyff:

    983/84 Eredivisie 31 7.03 ACS 2 6.78
    1982/83 Eredivisie 21 6.81 INC 1 6.90
    dic 81 Eredivisie 15 7.03 ACS 0 6.92
    lug 81 Major League Soccer 0 - 0 -
    gen 81 10 6.50 C 0 -
    1980 Major League Soccer 0 - 0 -
    1979 Major League Soccer 0 - 0 -
    1977/78 Liga 25 7.28 C 1 6.67
    1976/77 Liga 29 7.24 C 1 6.95
    1975/76 Liga 29 6.62 C 1 6.72
    1974/75 Liga 30 6.50 C 0 6.33
    set 73 Liga 26 7.12 C 0 6.57
    1973/74 Eredivisie 2 9.00 C 0 9.00
    1972/73 Eredivisie 26 6.75 C 1 6.28
    1971/72 Eredivisie 30 7.47 ACS 1 6.80
    1970/71 Eredivisie 24 7.06 ACS 1 6.61
    1969/70 Eredivisie 33 7.14 ACS 1 6.68
    1968/69 Eredivisie 28 7.14 ACS 1 6.84
    1967/68 Eredivisie 33 7.30 C 1 6.81
    1966/67 Eredivisie 30 7.40 SP 1 6.88

    Some of the Spanish ones at least must be converted from a different scale (not 1-10) I think - 73/74 will be anyway I guess, so I think it's not certain that that season is lower-rated than his final two Barcelona ones (all of the ratings are converted to meet the DBS Calcio standard as well).
     
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  18. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    For Gullit only the 1983/84 season is there from his Eredivisie time at the moment:

    1997/98 Premier League (EN) 3 6.50 ACS 0 6.39
    1996/97 Premier League (EN) 10 6.50 ACS 0 6.42
    1995/96 Premier League (EN) 30 6.95 LCD 1 6.84
    nov 94 Serie A 22 6.25 C 5 6.11
    1994/95 Serie A 8 6.44 C 5 6.24
    1993/94 Serie A 30 6.92 C 1 6.68
    1992/93 Serie A 15 6.67 SP 0 6.41
    1991/92 Serie A 25 6.50 ACD 2 6.12
    1990/91 Serie A 26 6.31 SP 5 6.13
    1989/90 Serie A 2 6.50 SP 0 6.28
    1988/89 Serie A 19 6.39 SP 4 6.17
    1987/88 Serie A 27 6.76 SP 1 6.40
    1986/87 Eredivisie 0 - 0 -
    1985/86 Eredivisie 0 - 0 -
    1984/85 Eredivisie 0 - 0 -
    1983/84 Eredivisie 31 6.58 INC 2 6.32
     
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  19. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    As a final bonus, Johan the 2nd (Neeskens):

    1978/79 Liga 30 6.58 ACS 4 6.35
    1977/78 Liga 17 7.32 INC 1 6.72
    1976/77 Liga 33 6.80 MCC 1 6.51
    1975/76 Liga 31 6.84 MCC 1 6.93
    1974/75 Liga 26 6.62 MCC 0 6.45
    1972/73 Eredivisie 32 6.59 MCC 1 6.12
    1971/72 Eredivisie 27 6.80 MCC 1 6.13
    1970/71 Eredivisie 32 6.47 MCC 1 6.02
     
  20. Wiliam Felipe Gracek

    Santos FC
    France
    Feb 3, 2024
    Puck van Heel .. he's still alive on earth ???? well i hope so ... yes .... i liked the him posts ... so much .... almost like a him fan ... hahaha !!! but Marco van Basten ... 1984/85 .... i saw so many many games from this season ... really amazing ...in my view ... 20 assists and 22 goals ... !! without injuries ...so much agility ...technique ...dribbling ...etc,...!!!
     
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  21. Wiliam Felipe Gracek

    Santos FC
    France
    Feb 3, 2024
    .... on Ruud Gullit .... 1983/84 ... were .. 45 matches ... 25 goals .... 27 assists ....10 pre-assists or key plays and played as a goalkeeper in the Uefa Cup 1983/84 ... 22 assists in the eredivisie ... confirmed.. 5 assists KNVb Cup from Holland .... against Ajax rematch ...for Houtman ...in the final Houtman .. again .. and more 3 assists .. on a game that was .. 7 x 1 ... also confirmed ...!! really amazing .... Gullit ...Eredivisie 1982/83 .. 15 assists .... 1983/84 22 assists .... 1984/85 .. 8 assists .... 1985/86 ... 19 assists .... 1986/87 ... 17 assists ...
     
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  22. Wiliam Felipe Gracek

    Santos FC
    France
    Feb 3, 2024
    they are considering What ???? what's the criterios ... to the notes ... ???? really ... i don't understood this !
     
  23. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    I think it is the media ratings from the league games (for example it could be from Voetbal International for the Netherlands....but maybe not, I don't know) combined into an average, and then converted to the DBS Calcio standard (akin to typical ratings in Italian football, and depending on how generous the ratings are for all players with each source - the original ratings are reduced by more if the ratings tend to be more generous).

    I hope that I explained it as well as I can!
    For example, here the DBS Calcio results for English league 1991/92, derived from ratings given by Shoot magazine:
    https://www.bigsoccer.com/threads/p...ivision-ratings.2037606/page-35#post-41784092
    Here was the original list of top average ratings as awarded by Shoot (before conversion for DBS Calcio):
    https://www.bigsoccer.com/threads/p...ivision-ratings.2037606/page-34#post-41722414
     
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  24. Wiliam Felipe Gracek

    Santos FC
    France
    Feb 3, 2024
    ...... well I liked much more the criterios ...of the Football Manager simulators as a coach ... for example .... matches ... goals .... assists .... pre-assists ....tacklings won .... headers won .... covers to the team ... duels won .... passing accuracy ... chances created ... ( clear chances ) ... attack set pieces ... defending set pices ... ( near post ... far post ... six yards ... penalty area ... zone 14 etc.. ) ... attack movements ..the most importants ..into the game ( overlapping movements ... underlapping movements ... ) work ethic ... fouls received ... etc .... so after all ..... they have one note !! into the game .... 7.93 ... higher notes til 10 !
     
  25. Wiliam Felipe Gracek

    Santos FC
    France
    Feb 3, 2024
    ........ also ... dribbles completed ... for example Messi 110 dribbles ..... Garrincha 109 dribbles .... Diego Armando Maradona ... 106 dribbles .... Jairzinho 79 dribbles ..... Edson Arantes Pelé ... 78 dribbles completed ...in all World Cups etc.... But ... is lesser important than ..all the others before !!!
     

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