Copa America Centenario 2016: General Discussion [R]

corruption

 

Same way the country is perpetually broke after being one of the richest at the start of the previous century.

 

That's right my friend

 

Grande Capita!

Lio will be back! hopefully

 

Money is the root of all EVIL MUAHAHAHAHA!

 

Wow apparently he posted that last year actually. Just as relevant today.

 

I understand Spanish enough that I can understand what he's saying, but somebody mind translating. Thanks in advance.

 

German fans wont sleep well as long Italy still alive in the tournament.

 

Well, Italy is my second favorite team, first because Maradona played there, and second because of Roberto Baggio.

I hope Italy does go all the way in the Euro, but the squad they have brought is the poorest in years, maybe the poorest ever in their history. I hope they don't embarrassed against Germany.

Maradona has just come out in support of Messi, saying Messi can't leave, that he will hopefully be Champion of the World in 2018, that the AFA abandoned Messi, and that people are not even letting Messi cry and grieve.

Maradona is such a complicated character; he has these opinion swings.

Despite everything, I do know Maradona was moved by Messi's tears.

First time I ever cried for a soccer match was seeing Maradona cry after the 1990 World Cup.

Heartbroken also for Baggio in 1994.

Then last few World Cups.... My wife says why do you follow such a game that gives you more heartbreak than happiness. I tell her there is a kind of strange happiness even when your heroes fall.

But please, Argentina, please win the next World Cup. Really don't want any more heartbreak.

 

Well, same here... Italy has always been the European team and I always support them in Euro tournament. Baggio is also one of my fav player ever. Diego off course has legion of fans there... They also somehow suffered the same fate as Argentina when it comes to Euro just like Argentina in Copa in past 2 decades.

They have only won the competition once like million years ago , yet they were 4 x World champion. They reached finals in 2000 and 2012 only to be beaten 2-1 and 4-0.

But unlike Argentina, they always get the better of Germany even at their worst... in 2006 and 2012 for intense, they never look like world beater... They needed penalty from a dive in 2006 second round and beat England via shootout in 2012... but when playing Germany, they look like the best team in the world. You cant explain that.

The fact that Germany has never beat them once in major tournaments is even more astounding.

Dont hold your breath for Argentina to win the next WC. This Copa seems like an end of a cycle... if we win this year Copa, imagine the team spirit and confidence entering Russia 2018 but that's not the case. For the better or worse... its time for the new blood to show what they got.

The Messi generation, I dont doubt their talent and ability but they're mentally weak when facing strong opponent or playing a final. After this final ... those miss chances cant be more obvious.

 

From what Ive heard, Macri promised Messi a reshuffling of AFA and asked him to continue with NT. Also Tata's resignation has been rumored but I havent seen or heard anything official yet.

I know I havent been around for a while but judging this team based on this tournament, Arg have hammered teams they should hammer with their B team. Tbh Tatas system and style of play is very outdated in today's football and his decision making of selecting injured players compiled with playing 3 DMs vs an inferior Chile squad is ridiculous. Arg should never ever give a team like Chile any breathing room in big games because that would boost their confidence which is exactly what happened.

I understand many of you guys are calling for younger players but the results will be the same if nothing happens to the AFA and their pathetic coaching selection.

 

Diego talking in sense now

 

You think result would be the same if Messi, Palacio, Aguero and especially Pipita chance goes in?

Remember that the team did reach a final and its not a small feat no matter how you see it. They're in 4 finals in less than 10 years. 2007, 2014, 2015, 2016 and in 2011 we lost in QF in a shootout against eventual winner.

But why... why those chances never goes in for once? the players decided not to score because they wanted AFA to fail? or because they're nervous? they second reason is more logical for sure.

Most team would be lucky enough to enter a final, Argentina did that multiple times in last 2 decades and just blew it there. If its because of AFA mess that they're losing .. they would have lost at group stage or second round but why only in final? its obviously the player themselves part of the blame.

Think about Icardi and Dybala or any of the younger guys missing a good chance for once... they will not be blame or crucified the way Messi and co did. They wont play a final with the same kind of preasure that Messi and his teammates has right now.

 

How good is the new generations that coming up..? this current crop of players won u-23 WC , olympics .
If we dump all these players at once and try to build completely out of new players , that will be nothing but disaster waiting.

 

Im not letting the players off the hook, I just look at coaching as critical and crucial as playing. Its a game of chess and Tata has proven time and time again that hes not a great game reader. Their road to WC 2014 final is completely different than the jokers they beat on their way to CA 2015/2016 finals.

My point is based upon my judgement of performance all the way and not a single game. Coaching is also mentally preparing your team and putting up good performances against Venz/USA is not the same as preparing ur team for the big moment. Its tactical and psychological and the guy failed in both.

The logical decision to make was drop Messi to CAM and bring in Aguero alongside Higuain to freeze both CBs from intercepting and disrypt the DMs from collapsing on Messi. However, how many timea did Tata make a tactical change/decision in a game? 0 which is exactly the problem with Dunga, their teams cant adapt because they havent trained playing different tactically and the coach never implemented anything other than relying heavily on a single formation and a single tactic. Just watch the likes of Simeone coach and youll know what I mean.

 

If Chile isnt one of those joker team, then explain why the only time they couldnt beat them would be in final itself. Just like why we easily beat Germany & Spain convincingly but only in friendlies.

They beat Chile home and away in 2014 qualifier, couldnt beat them in 2015 final. Beat them again in first CA game and in recent qualifier but couldnt score in final.

We need a coach who can install a winning mentallity, delivers in big game just like these generation of players does for their respective club.

 

U agreed on my point in your final statement. Besides it was Sabella who coached Arg in 2014 qualifiers and a group stage match being essentially the first match for the team is completely different than the final. You cant compare how Chile approached their first match with their final match. Preperations were different and the mentality heading into the final was also different. Back to my point, we need a coach that can handle a team tactically and mentally.

 

My point is , if those chances in last 3 finals goes in... one of them... we're winning those 3 tournaments and nobody would say Sabella and Tata made tactical error or couldnt adapt. Obviously the problem lies within the players mentality and those manager definetely couldnt change that... so yea, as you said.... we need a manager who can handle both... tactically and mentally. Again, if one of those chances goes in... nobody will say Tata and Sabella made tactical error, in fact there wouldnt be an extra time.

Here's some obvious example. A very obvious one.















If in last 3 finals the opponent beat Argentina by large margin and Argentina did not have any clear chances throughout the game, you could say its totally tactical error. But Chile couldnt score either in 120 minutes both in 2015 and 2016, Germany scored their only goal at 113 minutes. What can you say here? tactical error? if its another manager other than Tata and Sabella... can they organize such strong defence ? good defence was there in last 3 finals... goalscoring chances were there... its not being taken. Simply as that.

 

Another obvious one.

 

How am I going to say "pecho frio" to a guy that when he was 11 years old he was being injected with needles only to fight an illness. How am I going to say "pecho frio" to a guy that when he was 11 years old he left for Europe in order to carry his and his family's future on his back. How am I going to say "pecho frio" to a guy that said no to the country that gave him everything and chose the one that gave him nothing. How am I going to say "pecho frio" to a guy that could be calmly counting his money on a private beach but nevertheless is trying to take his country's team to the top. How am I going to say "pecho frio" to a guy that is compared to a man that they say is the greatest in history. How am I going to say "pecho frio" to Messi? "Pecho frio", pecho frio is you who treats Messi like a pecho frio.

And of course pecho frio literally means cold chest, referring to having no heart or passion for the team.

 

Like who?

All I can think of is Bielsa but maybe Pochettino might consider dual assignment. Berizzo worked under Bielsa can be a prospect. I really don't think Simeone footballing style suitable for Argentina.

Tata will probably resign after the summer olympics.

 

Just because we missed some chances, doesnt mean we played better. Watch Sundays final again and Chile clearly outplayed us for 120 mins. Thats what I call tactical errors when you give an underdog the space to gain confidence during a game. Idk what ppl would have said but I was saying all along that it would be difficult to win a title because Tata cant simply do it.

Im with you in 2014 but back then we clearly outplayed Germany and Sabella did a phenomenal job with what he had. Tata was outplayed two years in a row by two different coaches. Sabellas 2014 team outplayed Belguim, Netherlands, and Germany. Tatas team outplayed Venzuela, USA, and Bolivia.

 

I would think Bauza or Gallardo