Consequences for Europe

Discussion in 'Elections' started by johan neeskens, Nov 3, 2004.

  1. johan neeskens

    Jan 14, 2004
    Well looks like Bush is going to win - congratulations, every nation gets the leader it deserves as they say.

    Now what does this mean for Europe? Political commentators over here agree on one thing: if Kerry had won, European nations would probably agree to let their troops stay in Iraq. Now that Bush is re-elected, it's a different story. Then there's also agreement on that the gap between the US and Europe will get wider. That means that the EU is forced to strengthen its efforts to strengthen a common foreign policy and army - this process has in fact already started. So while it seems that the US become more and more divided, Europe is uniting and getting stronger politically.
     
  2. afgrijselijkheid

    Dec 29, 2002
    mokum
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    well we're all gonna die now, so i'm not sure it makes a difference what europe does
     
  3. Nico Limmat

    Nico Limmat Member+

    Oct 24, 1999
    Dubai, UAE
    Club:
    Grasshopper Club Zürich
    Nat'l Team:
    Switzerland
    Exactly, a weak U.S. is an opportunity for Europe and the rest of the world.

    Now if only we could get rid of Blair...
     
  4. CrewDust

    CrewDust Member

    May 6, 1999
    Columbus, Ohio
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    For the EU: More of the same. I'll buy the EU building up a military force when I see it.
     
  5. BenReilly

    BenReilly New Member

    Apr 8, 2002
    Whoopee. One thing is for sure, whiney Europeans didn't do Kerry any favors.
     
  6. dfb547490

    dfb547490 New Member

    Feb 9, 2000
    The Heights
    Sucks to be you.
     
  7. Nico Limmat

    Nico Limmat Member+

    Oct 24, 1999
    Dubai, UAE
    Club:
    Grasshopper Club Zürich
    Nat'l Team:
    Switzerland
    Dear neocons,

    Nobody deserves four more years of Bush more than you.

    Enjoy.
     
  8. biggyv

    biggyv Member

    May 18, 2000
    PGH PA
    I still don't understand how the interests of Europe and those of the US are necessarily mutually exclusive.
     
  9. DoyleG

    DoyleG Member+

    CanPL
    Canada
    Jan 11, 2002
    YEG-->YYJ-->YWG-->YYB
    Club:
    FC Edmonton
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    The thread should be concerning the world, not just Europe.
     
  10. johan neeskens

    Jan 14, 2004
    Well yesterday I was consistently told off for having an opinion about the US so I decided to stick with Europe this time, hoping that I am allowed an opinion on that at least.
     
  11. johan neeskens

    Jan 14, 2004
    Well they're not, of course, but tell that to your men Bush and Cheney.
     
  12. afgrijselijkheid

    Dec 29, 2002
    mokum
    Club:
    AFC Ajax

    so what if you were told off? you are allowed every opinion you can muster - perhaps americans, especially bush voters, should just learn to stop telling everyone to shut the f*** up if they want to be such a "free country" interested in "spreading liberty"

    when a person decides that they can't ever learn anything from anybody else, it is time to call kevorkian... because what's the point?
     
  13. Nico Limmat

    Nico Limmat Member+

    Oct 24, 1999
    Dubai, UAE
    Club:
    Grasshopper Club Zürich
    Nat'l Team:
    Switzerland
    It's not about the military, it's about the economy. As I said on another thread:
     
  14. johan neeskens

    Jan 14, 2004
    I agree, I'm just not really in the mood for Anne Frank and Srebrenica references today. Yesterday was a pretty tough day for the Dutch news-wise as you know.
     
  15. 1953 4-2-4

    1953 4-2-4 Red Card

    Jan 11, 2004
    Cleveland
    I just can't wait to see how Europe handles it's "superior" social welfare system once it has to spend 1/2 it's budget to defend itself.

    This will be fun to watch.
     
  16. afgrijselijkheid

    Dec 29, 2002
    mokum
    Club:
    AFC Ajax

    yeah, i understand
     
  17. sendorange

    sendorange Member+

    Jun 7, 2003
    Bigsoccer.com
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Defend ourselves from what? We have no enemies. Also with the size of the EU and number of member states we can have a big enough army to protect us all without spending excessive amounts of money. It's a concept called "sharing", something I understand you right-wing freaks may have a hard time understanding.
     
  18. johan neeskens

    Jan 14, 2004
    Why would Europe want to do that seeing that we don't have any enemies? Unless you know something I don't: is Bush planning on invading us then?
     
  19. johan neeskens

    Jan 14, 2004
    Ha! Sorry hadn't seen your post. Makes my last irrelevant I guess.
     
  20. Mel Brennan

    Mel Brennan PLANITARCHIS' BANE

    Paris Saint Germain
    United States
    Apr 8, 2002
    Baltimore
    Club:
    Paris Saint Germain FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It means that we all gather our funds and by every European we know this book; only by demonstrating to the world that a different, powerful vision of how the world can be can thrive in terms of "the dream" as well as "the reality" will Democrats finally understand the template, the REAL shift they must undertake, to motivate - to INSPIRE - the American masses. They need an example, a template. If Europe, hesitating now with their own vision i nthe face of those that want the American model's front-end success (while ignoring it's back-end failures), abdicated their "dream," the world acquieseces to not just the American vision of how the world is, but the NEOCON expression of that vision, which is for others to be subjects to empire, economic, military or otherwise.

    Europe won't need to spend on the military other than taking what each member nation spends now and using 60% of it for a continental rapid reaction force. the myth that they need to spend as much as the US is in fact a myth; as long as they don't START to spend that much (and thus institutionalise that level of spending), they'll never have to do so, unless the world totally goes down the shitter and there's a war with like CHina, in which case the spending won't be the issue, will it?

    No, acknowledge that you've built the most ambitious trans-national / internal market experiment in history, out of the jaws of defeat and war, not out of imperial victory, that that "dream" instituionalises the waging of peace and expresses a new, counterbalancing vision of what freedom means; access and embeddedness in communities and quality of life, as opposed to an individualistic, exclusive notion of freedom that focuses on useless measures like GDP and commits to personal wealth accumulation without considerations of quality of life at all.

    It's not that you've lived up yet to this vision, that's not the issue; America doesn't live up to their "Dream." It's acknowledging that the EU is comprised of such a DIFFERENT dream than the US.
     
  21. argentine soccer fan

    Staff Member

    Jan 18, 2001
    San Francisco Bay Area
    Club:
    CA Boca Juniors
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    I am sure that now that the election is over, France and Germany will realize that it is in their best interest to reach out to the US. And viceversa.
     
  22. Mel Brennan

    Mel Brennan PLANITARCHIS' BANE

    Paris Saint Germain
    United States
    Apr 8, 2002
    Baltimore
    Club:
    Paris Saint Germain FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Interestingly, I think that this is true, but I don't think that "reaching out" will mean the same thing to France, Germany and the EU as it might mean to you, or to the US. Not even close.
     
  23. argentine soccer fan

    Staff Member

    Jan 18, 2001
    San Francisco Bay Area
    Club:
    CA Boca Juniors
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Hi Mel. Interesting point, as usual.

    What do you propose 'reaching out' means to France, Germany and the EU, and what do you propose it means to me personally, and to the US in general?
     
  24. johan neeskens

    Jan 14, 2004
    The political situation in both France and Germany is such that it is unlikely that their governments will go against public opinion, and public opinion is very much anti-US in both countries. So I can't envisage your scenario.
     
  25. Caesar

    Caesar Moderator
    Staff Member

    Mar 3, 2004
    Oztraya
    Cutting remark so, so tempting.
     

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