Clarification required here: I don't run nor am I officially part of Baseball San Jose. Though I have posted comments there when questions were asked. I run the new A's ballpark blog, from which I have maintained a neutral position about where the A's should go in the Bay Area. My only interest is in seeing the A's stay in the Bay Area. Now that I've gotten that out of the way, I should point out the real reason for all of this to occur should it actually happen: business. By that I don't mean sports teams. I mean all of the ancillary stuff that comes off the sports. Think of it this way: 1. Lew Wolff's angle is partly, I think, to get the real Downtown San Jose that he's always wanted since the 70's. But it's just as much to help out his other businesses in downtown: The Fairmont and Hilton with their related restaurants, Scott's Seafood, and other development ventures that may come down the pipe. If the A's and Quakes move downtown, other development in the area will be fast-tracked. That's exactly what Wolff and his partners want. 2. AEG's interest in the Quakes was always about getting a toehold in this market for venue management - their core business. SJSU/Spartan Shops always played hardball with AEG so AEG returned the cold shoulder. I found the deal with SVS+E curious because SVS+E would have been direct competitor to AEG in this market if AEG ever got that toehold. So moving the Quakes is more like AEG waving the white flag and giving up on the South Bay. SVS+E deserves credit for this because they're efficiently run like a Swiss watch (hence their rep for being cheap). Now that AEG is out of the picture, SVS+E is left free to partner with all comers, including the Quakes, A's, and Lew Wolff. Since Lew Wolff is already familiar with many of the players in SVS+E, there's already a sense of comfort and familiarity. I wouldn't read too much into AEG's relationship with Wolff. It's the substance of the deal that makes it work, and since AEG couldn't get it done, the relationship matters little. There's business down the road, and Wolff still needs to finish the hotel he's building near AEG's Staples Center. 3. SVS+E now gets to monopolize the South Bay with little worry about competition and then gets to reach into the rest of the Bay Area. I wouldn't be surprised to see the Wolff/Fisher group invest in SVS+E to get the ball rolling. SVS+E will also get a portfolio of venues that will make it very flexible in pursuing shows and concerts. It already has one of the best run arenas in the US. The ability to have three venues use many of the same staffing management resources (ex: a single groundskeeping crew for both stadiums' grass) allows them to lower costs and attract personnel. I doubt a shared stadium is in the works. I have to call the VP of Greentech, the company that made the grass pallets for Giants Stadium, to follow up on an inquiry I made in the summer. I think the expense required to make the field work for both MLS and MLB is going to be too costly. What I was thinking of was the baseball diamond on a hydraulic lift/platform. For soccer, the platform would be lowered below the field level and grass pallets would be put in its place. I've never seen this done before, but maybe it's possible. I'll find out. There are ways for two stadia to share infrastructure, so that could be a big factor. All that, and precious few words about either the A's or Quakes. That's how it works these days.
Good stuff, marinelayer. I guess it makes sense for Lew Wolff to partner with SVSE with the exclusion of AEG. What is the likelihood that he would see a soccer stadium alone as enough impetus for his downtown vision? Would he pursue the Quakes and a soccer stadium in San Jose while keeping the A's in Oakland? Also, does his vision preclude consideration of other locations such as the fairgrounds or Great America? - Paul
Ray Ratto is definitely a baseball guy. However, back in the 70's, he wrote extensively about the NASL Quakes. He even travelled on the road with them quite often. I met him in Chicago in 1979 while I was also travelling with the team.
I don't think a soccer stadium alone gets it done. It would help SVS+E, but not Wolff since he would have to struggle with two separate fundraising efforts and political deals in San Jose and Oakland. (Or San Jose/Fremont, Oakland/Fremont, etc.) It looks less appealing for potential stadium investors because only so many dates could be done for each venue. It would also be politically difficult for San Jose because it would be looked at as paying $80+ million (the price of the land) just to re-enter MLS, and that's without funding stadium construction. Wolff hasn't shown us his entire vision, but it appears to be very portable so it could be applied to many different places as long as land is available. In San Jose, however, there's one specific thing that puts it over the top for him: vested interest in downtown. It's funny, when I spoke at the open forum, I could have sworn that Vice Mayor Chavez was smirking as I said, "it can be both baseball and soccer."
Marinelayer's prediction of ties developing between SVS&E and Wolff make sense. We can only guess at this time where Wolff wants a stadium. I sincerely hope they do not try to play both sports in one stadium. You can guess who would get screwed on dates. I also think the changeover would be to costly and involved. I am hoping Santa Clara makes him an offer he can't refuse for a soccer stadium. San Jose will do anything for him in regards to a baseball stadium so I don't see why he has to tie an SSS into the deal. The next month or two will be very interesting.
The pitcher's mound at RFK Stadium is on a hydraulic lift. I don't think either MLB or MLS want to share a stadium with each other ever again. When the Giants played visited Washington this past season, I couldn't believe the amount of complaining from the announcers and intervied players about how soccer ruined the field quality.
You know, I think I was even looking at your post when I wrote the OP. Sorry for not citing you. And while I'm on the apology kick . . . My bad. Anyhoo, the reason I started this thread was to collect all of the facts, assumptions, and conjecture out there regarding getting the team back on the field. So let me address a couple of notions that have arisen: --A shared, convertible field. Let me make clear that I have seen nothing about this outside this message board. I think we all agree that such a facility is not in the cards. (Although someone did have a link to a webpage about a Japanese stadium that had a moving baseball field with real grass that slid outside the stadium, and underneath that was a field turf soccer field, and the stands could be reconfigured for either sport. I saw that and thought, COOOOOOL . . . .) --AEG running the venue. This might have been a sticking point for other investors; I never saw this stated as fact, although it makes sense. Bright has a good point, in that this whole drama could have been manufactured by AEG to get them new venues in both San Jose and Houston. If Lew Wolff can live with that-and based on his history with AEG, it sure seems like it-I have no problem with this. But where does that leave SVSE? With another competitor for the Arena? --Public financing. Here's the white elephant sitting in the corner of the room. I think that AEG and Lew Wolff will only go for a new stadium if there is a significant public financing component. And this is why I'm not hopeful this whole thing can happen. The Bay Area is ground zero for the anti-public funding for sports facility movement. We invented it in the eighties, after the Giants lost four elections trying to get a replacement for the 'Stick. What is aggravating is that Wolff could avoid the hassles of an election if he were to go to the City of Santa Clara, but he seems to be hell-bent on the downtown San Jose site. And if he has to choose between financing the Quakes and the A's, guess who will win that fight.
A number of folks have said that AEG and Wolff have extensive connections. Where has this info come from?
Wolff is building a hotel at the Los Angeles Convention Center where AEG is developing a bunch of entertainment things. It is also right next to AEG headquarters and the Staples Center, AEG's crown jewel. I figure anybody rich enough to buy the team has probably done business somewhere with the likes of AEG, Lamar Hunt, etc., so I'm not worried about this.
The only dual use baseball/soccer stadium that has ever really worked for both sports is the Sapporo Dome and it cost $364m, not including land purchase.
Yeah, this is a gnawing problem. From an outsiders perspective it seems that SVS&E and Wolff are heavily focused on downtown area San Jose apparently due to their other existing interests there. And it seems like they (at least SVS&E) are counting on significant amounts of public financing. Whether or not you support that level of public funding, there would have to be a public vote. And that would be a tough one to win. A downtown stadium would be great but would be difficult to pull off. An alternative would be a stadium built in an area where there's some significant amount of space to enable youth fields, etc. to be incorporated into the project. Maybe this could happen on one of the Santa Clara sites or the fairgrounds. Also I'd like to see a proposal develop such that there is a much greater contribution of private financing. The numbers that have been reported seem to be out of whack in terms of what the city would need to offer (including operational subsidies, etc.).
Wolff's ballpark financing plan in Oakland was completely private, with the city providing entitlements and infrastructure. Wolff would even pay for the land. The project had to be enormous to pay for the ballpark and turn a profit, so that's why it was so large. He also knows that the climate in Oakland is not good for seat licenses and bonds, so he chose a very radical form of financing for the project. In San Jose it would be a different story. San Jose has plenty of potential suitors for naming rights and big stadium sponsorship deals. Fans are also more likely to pony up for a seat license (club seats). When it comes to numbers, he's pretty up front. His agenda is another story. The idea is that with a more favorable customer base in the South Bay, the ancillary development project would not need to be so large. I wouldn't be surprised to see Wolff push the idea of PSL's for both soccer and baseball facilities. The question is how many customers of that type exist? Would you buy a PSL to help finance a soccer stadium? How much would you pay assuming it's a one-time purchase for lifetime, fully transferable rights?
How much? I might do it, but I would be extremely skeptical that San Jose would be the place for MLS to make its first attempt to sell PSLs. That's not the way to win back fans in a community that has been burned.
I do not like the idea of PSL's. As we've seen in Oakland, it creates a feeling of inequity when non-PSL holders can get seats next to PSL holders if the stadium does not sell out. I'd rather pay the freight.
Why won't Wolfe look towards Alameda? The Alameda Naval Air Station would be a perfect location for both an A's ballpark and a soccer specific stadium. There is land. There is parking (runways). The ballpark could be facing PacBell/SBC/ATT Park. There is land, location, access, space, tax incentives, and above all, A's fans and within reach of this new facility.
But, on the other hand, access is a problem. Either drive the tube or crawl up from Oakland Airport from the south side. Ferries could help, but not immensely.
Well, if we are looking at former military installations, why not Moffett? Should be a lot of room there also.
I agree, but Mountain View and Sunnyvale are full of NIMBYs who would kill it. Anyway, Shoreline Amphitheater is right nearby so the concert venue angle is weak. Plus, Moffett is not closed - it's still used by NASA and occasionally by other fed agencies (Air Force One lands there when they visit the bay area for example). But I'd love it, speaking as a Mtn View resident...
Alameda has a pretty sizable NIMBY contingent too. Any big ticket item like a stadium will have residents asking about bridges, tunnels, anything to improve traffic flow. That makes it prohibitively expensive. A soccer stadium at Moffett is doable. BASOC was going to place its Olympic Village and training center at a revamped Moffett, so a SSS should not be a high strain. Land, however, is extremely valuable at Moffett. Google just announced a unique R&D/land deal with NASA that will swallow up a good portion of area land and the government (NASA or the Pentagon) will be looking for a fair market-type deal if it is going to give up or share land.
Just to give y'all an idea 'bout Alameda... Alameda Community College is literally a 3 minute drive from Laney College, and is a complete, full-service college. And it's not like most of the students are residents of Alameda, on the contrary. They're Oakland residents that want to get away from Oakland, so they think that going over a bridge/crossing a tunel will get them a better education. The waste is just sickening. But... nobody would EVER dare to try to close that campus (and you know... sell the land that is worth a fortune) b/c Alameda residents insist on having their own college. That truly serves Oakland. Inefficiently.