Let me first preface my comments by saying I agree with you that the idea of bringing in UEFA, CONMEBOL, or Asian FC referees isn't going to happen. Politically, CONCACAF will never go for that. The issue is that we will always see issues where referees in countries without a decent domestic league is going to be in the middle of a US-Mexico game where all 46 players are MLS, Liga MX, South American, or European players. Then you add the madhouse of the Mexico fans to this mix. I'm sorry, but it's just not going to end in anything other than a mess. This would be like me jumping from my current level (upper-level high school, some ECNL games, and a handful of college games at the D2/D3/NAIA level) and being thrown into a USL Championship or USL League 1 game. Of course I'm going to be overmatched - I've never done a game at that level. Then you add the apparent lack of any sort of desire to want dissent and reckless physical challenges, and you have CONCACAF. So how do we get at least a few CONCACAF referees with the ability to handle a US-Mexico game? I thought Barton was going to be that guy, but he's fallen victim to CONCACAF-iness. I'll defer to @MassachusettsRef in his opinion that we really haven't seen a referee able to handle this game since Carlos Batres. Until that happens, I'd much rather see even second-tier UEFA or CONMEBOL referees on these games, as they would still work in higher-level leagues.
Isn't Irmatov the poster child for the CONCACAF referee work we see now? (You can come running at me with the palms down "settle down" gesture at any time . . . )
Again as a non-referee, my perception is that the problem is just as much with administrators making life difficult for referees as it is the quality of the referees themselves. 1) The "clear and obvious" language regarding VAR, which has caused more problems than it's solved, since "clear and obvious" is subjective. Just make it policy that all close calls get looked at by VAR, and life would be much simpler. 2) The refusal to do anything about player/coach/manager intimidation of referees. 3) The desire to avoid sending people off in an effort to avoid influencing the outcome. 4) Not placing the on-field monitor in a isolated/protected area.
about no.3….as we know, by not sending off deserved individuals, the referee is in fact influencing the outcome.
I think that cracking down on dissent and encouraging refs to actually give cards for cardable offenses would help. Remember the 2019 Gold Cup final with no cards whatsoever? There just never seem to be any consequences for anything on or off the pitch. Any of the fans who were throwing stuff onto the pitch should never be allowed as a spectator into a soccer stadium ever again. I think that some of the refs are certainly capable of doing a better job if they were adequately supported. But I don't know how you overcome the problem of the gulf in quality between a US-Mexico game and what they see domestically. I don't see how you can bring in non-CONCACAF refs. I don't know where you could send some of the CONCACAF refs to get more experience. I think it'd be very tough to do any sort of exchange between the bigger and smaller nations in CONCACAF (e.g. having someone from Central America work MLS games). PRO obviously is developing its own refs, and below that USSF wants to do the same thing (although they arguably have some incentive to improve the quality of refereeing throughout the rest of CONCACAF).
Imagine an exchange program where USL referees get experience refereeing Central American pro soccer, and the Central American referees get experience at the USL level. Sure, it's not on par with MLS, but USL is a step above many of the CONCACAF-member club leagues. If the non-US, Canada, or Mexico referees are exposed to better play, they will become better when it comes time for them to work international events. Who knows, the USL referees might learn good game management skills from working the more difficult Central American games.
Empower Field announced police arrested 5 people after the game, including the person who threw the object that hit Reyna. That's like 10% of the people that needed to be busted, but its a start.
Herein lies the dilemma of PRO wanting to develop its own referees compared to building the quality of referees to be able to handle a US-Mexico match. If I were running things, I'd have a sitdown with Howard Webb and Mark Geiger at PRO and raise the question about how can PRO, Liga MX/FMF, USSF, and MLS (good luck getting those groups together, but work with me) work together to develop 2-3 CONCACAF referees who can handle a US-Mexico game in Columbus and the Azteca. Maybe now FMF doesn't want this because we are seeing the US start to equal or surpass Mexico talent-wise, but I would imagine Mexico doesn't want Lozano, Lainez, or Jiminez (assuming he returns to international duty 100% healthy) hacked to death any more than US Soccer wants Pulisic, Reyna, and McKennie hacked to death. This "detente" would allow a small number of CONCACAF referees - I'd go with Barton, swallow hard with Escobar and hope he can actually learn to use his cards, and then a Jamaican referee crew to get some Caribbean representation - to work 4-6 matches across Liga MX and MLS per season so they can get that type of domestic experience. Between those matches and working CCL matches, hopefully you'd have three referees that could be in the middle of a US-Mexico game and have a prayer of controlling it. Again, I realize this is theoretical and would have to navigate a bunch of political minefields. But at some point, you have to draw a line before a marquee US or Mexico player suffers a devastating injury in one of these games.
I have had this conversation with a CONCACAF executive. His response was exactly what you guessed here.
Yeah, not to pick on others here but some of the ideas thrown out in the past page or so amount not just to pipedreams, but ideas that have no consistuency and provide nearly zero motivation for those that would have to execute them. USL? USL doesn't want to pay for an AR to come from two states away. Who is flying Central American referees to Tacoma and Pittsburgh? And who is flying our non-MLS guys internationally? More importantly, why would those leagues want our guys and why would PRO want our officials developing on matches that are absolutely nothing like MLS? I mean, when you stop to think about it, a Costa Rican league match is more like CONCACAF than USL is so... why send those referees here to get better on matches that are less like the ones they are aspiring to? And Howard Webb and PRO have near zero incentive to develop referees to officiate US v Mexico.(how many current MLS players got on the field Sunday?). PSRA has even less. The clubs are paying for the best possible product and taking a middling international referee from Central America and throwing him in the middle of a league he is unfamiliar with for a few matches, just to get him ready for US v Mexico is... well, it's not going to happen. No one wants it. Plus, it could backfire pretty easily. Escobar or Barton or Bejarano flames out in an MLS match and then what? Also, the more they become familiar with MLS the less likely Mexico is going to want them on a US match. So Liga MX would have to be involved in this sort of scheme as well. I think there's one way this gets better from within CONCACAF and it is still years away. If the Liga MX-MLS merger/Super League ever happens, I could see a scenario where a few "elite" CONCACAF referees were invited to join that competition. But if that happens (I know there's debate among people far more knowledgable about the economics than me, but I am convinced it is at least plausible) it won't be until after WC2026.
It truly is a question of motivation. And I don't think people here should discount the pride that some of these smaller federations get when their officials are on the finals or the US-Mexico matches or selected for the World Cup. Those federations hold political power. They can't magically make their teams better. They can only force economic benefits for themselves to a certain extent. They aren't hosting the major tournaments. Referee accolades are one of the few things they have to compete for and win. It sounds a bit crazy, but it's real. You hand over the biggest CONCACAF matches to imports from Europe and South America and you've conceded one of the few potential sources of pride for your national association.
The $64,000 question is how these smaller federations can improve the level of their officials to match the level that you see at MLS or Liga MX games. Those officials are better than the rest of CONCACAF for good reason, so if the smaller federations can train their officials to the standards that PRO and FMF use for their officials, perhaps CONCACAF officiating would be less of a joke.
Training is one thing. I can be trained to referee a CONCACAF match. But, unless I REFEREE that level, I’m pretty useless.
I do readily admit that my idea was a pipe dream. Fortunately, I'm not afraid to offer up crazy ideas when I feel the need is there to propose an out of the box solution! For me, the objective is clear - How can we have two different referee crews that can competently officiate a US-Mexico competitive fixture? Right now, we don't have that. I do not want to see Christian Pulisic, Chucky Lozano, Zach Steffen, or Memo Ochoa (as much as I can't stand that guy ) suffer a serious injury because the officiating crew couldn't control the match. The suits at CONCACAF can whistle around the issue all they want, but it's clear they have a significant problem. If I avoided a problem like this in my job for this long, I'd have been fired a long time ago. If the current ways of fixing the problem aren't working, then figure out a new way.
Then the boss would need to be fired. Everyone outside of CONCACAF headquarters sees the issue. I fail to understand why those inside can't.
You need to understand how CONCACAF works. It is a patronage program masquerading as a football confederation. Competitive excellence in the playing or coaching or officiating side of things is secondary to making sure that all of the member nations get a slice of the pie, whether that means money or assignments, or World Cup slots.
On the assignment itself, it was pointed out elsewhere that Pitti got this Final but isn't even on the Gold Cup list. And he's only 42. Both semifinal referees from Thursday are attending the Gold Cup. So there's not some rule where you could only attend one or the other. So Pitti was left of the Gold Cup list and isn't a candidate for WC22. Yet he clearly was planned for this match. Very strange when you stop and think about it. Maybe a retirement "present?" But, even then, why not 1 or 2 more matches at the Gold Cup?
Curiouser and curiouser, I dare say. What would happen if the US, Canada, and Mexico refuse to send referees to CONCACAF events until the people in charge of refereeing get fired?
What? First of all, an American is in charge. And he's supported mostly by Americans. Second, how would that help? It would just mean even more appointments for referees from the Caribbean and Central America. The other national associations would love that. Why would anyone get fired? Nothing would happen. Absolutely nothing.
If no MLS refs work, then the remaining games are worked by inferior officials. Inferior officials lead to worse officiating lead to safety issues. If that continues for some time, the US and Mexico might pull their teams out of the CONCACAF tournaments. If those teams that are the big moneymakers don't participate because of safety issues, heads will roll. That said, this entire scenario is very far-fetched and won't happen. I wonder what it would take to clean house enough to get CONCACAF refereeing on par with the level seen at CONMEBOL or UEFA competitions.
I understand exactly how CONCACAF works, which is why I'm so fired up about this and why I wish someone who would actually change things gets put in charge. Just because corruption and patronage has always been present doesn't mean that it can't be reformed. You just need someone with the guts to do it.