How many of you have had there Head Coach leave your club for another cross town rival club?? Sucks doesnt it? Iv seen it happen twice now with the same Director of Coaching and now with a Pro Team Coach. Left just prior to State Cup. Iv been hearing lot of rumors, contract problems, level of players etc etc. However, would you follow your coach to the other side of town at the end of the spring season and try out for the new club? Im a full believer that each club should put into writting on the contract that if any said coach leaves prior to the end of the contract, that this coach cannot coach at a said radius from the old club. This is also in favor of the coach to put pressure on the old club to get the contract written and signed as soon as poss. This could be a club buster, this Pro Head Coach had 2 teams, now word is, these 2 teams are going to follow Coach to the other side of town and tryout. This could be bad for the old club if they have a numbers probelm. Thoughts..
Hey Not allowed out east. State issues the coaches license. State has the peer review board and ethics review boards. The clubs should not have to spend what little money they have on lawyers and contract enforcement. If I were the existing club and its officer group, I would immediately ask for a state review board to interceed on behalf of the first club and enjoin the coach from recruiting from them for 12 months as well as enjoin the existing players from following that coach for the same period of time. I guess I question this coaches ethics. Thesoccerphantom
Hey Phantom, I agree with you, but on the player/families behalf, if you do not like the new coach of the old club, 2 or 3 players do not come back, what do you do? Now you are keeping these families from playing soccer? Tough one isnt it??
Alright, here are my thoughts. Please keep in mind that one of the teams just happens to be my daughter's, so I may be too close to the situation to have an objective view. Wounds are still pretty fresh, but I will do my best. I have two opinions on this. First, if a player tried to leave the team to go to another during the season- not only would it be tough to accomplish but it would be viewed as just plain wrong regardless of the reasons the player wanted to go. It could be said that "it is business and you have to go when there are openings", the same could be said for the player. Sometimes you have to go where there is a roster spot when it is open. That being said, it is still wrong. Teammates and coaches count on each other, when there is a loss of either it effects a whole lot of people. Right now, teammates are torn apart and it will be interesting to see how they react for the rest of the season. Second opinion- this particular coach was a good coach. I have spoken highly of him and will continue to do so. Some may not have appreciated his style, but my he was able to motivate my kid. I have always felt as though my loyalties lay with that coach, not with the uniform my daughter wears. We have run the gamit of feelings over the past couple days, but as shock wears off and cooler heads prevail I have begun to realize that my loyalties lie with my daughter. Period. Nothing else matters. Bottom line- At the end of this season, my daughter may wear the same uniform next year or she may not. We will do the wise thing and attend trials at multiple clubs (good suggestion for everyone out there with kids playing Select soccer). When the bids come in, we will make a smart decision based on what is best for her. What is important to me is my kid-- not her teammates, not Club A or B, or Coach A or B. We pay for our daughter to be trained, and thus far we have absolutely not been let down by any of her Select coaches or our Club. She has had 6 coaches over 3 years and they all have had thier strong points and weaknesses. But ALL have been quality, and we wouldn't change much that has taken place. Because we pay, we will hold the club accountable to give us the best value for our money. We will go for the best mixture of competitive team and coaching/development for our child. No one else will look out for our kids, we have to do it ourselves.
I think it would be wrong to keep players from moving about between clubs for 12 months. In Iowa, coaches cannot recruit from other Select programs. So, the ability to keep him from recruiting already exists. You CANNOT prevent players from leaving at the end of thier contracted period. Spring season ends our responsibility to her club and teammates, we are free to do/go where we want. The "old" club doesn't have to release palyers during the season, and is not willing to (nor should they be expected to). However, if a contract would have been in place I don't see how this situation would have happened. Could have potentially saved all of us a lot of headaches. So, if you run a club-- take note. Don't take anything for granted, get a contract signed and you won't find yourself in a very rough spot.
Soccerphantom, this happens all the time in Massachusetts without recourse and as far as I know, there is no such thing as a peer/ethics review board to address the issue. There are legal issues regarding a club's ability to enforce contracts that are beyond my scope; however, the club that I have been involved with required that the coach sign a contract that stated that should he/she leave they would not coach the same gender age group for a certain period of time. This protects the club and it's team while still allowing the coach to coach elsewhere and seems a fair way of handling it. How it affects the team in question is another matter; however, this same club also keep coaches with an age group rather than having them move on with the team. It also has other club staff coaches working regularly with all the teams, so that the kids are use to working with other coaches than just their team coach. As a result, what I have seen is that teams make an easy transition to new coaches when there has been a mid-season change (or on those occasions when another coach might have to cover a game). It also seems to promote more of a true club environment rather than the more traditional "group of teams" environment where problems stemming from a coach's "ownership" of the team can arise.
Once again, Just stating the facts. In the state of NH you must have a signed release from the club that you are currently playing at. Parent, player signatures and the coach. Then a sig from the new club. Without that the state reistrar will not issue a player card. Without the card you cannot play and or be eligible for TOC. I am currently the team manager for the club, super y and ODP teams that my daughter plays for. Not necessarily saying this is the right thing but at least it keeps coaches from poaching players. All the responses to the post were all protecting the players from bailing out on their current obligation to chase some pre-madonna coach across town to another team. Sorry, I disagree. The Phantom.........
I think you will find that the signatures and pass protections on players leaving do not really amount to much. If the club and coach refuse to sign the paperwork the player can appeal to the state association who will almost always force the club / coach to release the player. The only exception is if the club can show that the player has significant unpaid bills, usually the state will force the player to pay unpaid bills before leaving.
I agree. Still wrong. Too much politics on both sides. Here is a twist for you... How about my ODP Player from NH coming down to MA and bumping one of the "good ole girls" off the ODP line up next year. What are your thoughts on trading teams on the ODP side of the nickel.
There are rules about this, ask Menace about it. I dont think they can do this mid season. A player can ONLY tryout for one State from the way I understand it. Menace can explain better. ps. They are coming out to Boston last w/end of this month.
I can tell you from first hand experience that an ODP player: 1) Can only try out for one State per year, and the State DOC is REQUIRED to sign a release for any player to play outside of a State in which they live for another State's ODP program to place him/her on a roster 2) Any player rostered on an ODP squad is REQUIRED to be rostered on a Club team in the State in which they are on the ODP squads. There are many other rules governing all of this, but I can tell you that I h ave experienced both of the above FIRST HAND and that most State DOCs take them pretty seriously. Are these rules commonly followed? Depends on your State DOC I suppose. Should they be? I don't know, but they are the rules and probably should be enforced. God knows I have seen them enforced only in certain situations. See, I always get baited into these discussions.........
One other point with regard to the specific situation this thread was started about. From what I understand, the State has stepped in (to some small degree) and has made a hard stand about players migrating at this point of the season between clubs. So, there you have it.....I have finally found something to praise our State Association about on this Board!! I do have to admit, the State Association will work very hard to try and facilitate the growth of soccer in our rural areas (that is if YOU apporach them and ask for thier help).
Our 90 team has a IL player, she is NOT rostered in Iowa. The 91's have a IL player, she is NOT rostered in Iowa. However the club team that these 2 girls play for does play in the Iowa/IL boarder league?? Quad Cities. Maybe this is the out?? 2 yrs ago we had a play from Sioux Falls, SD play on our ODP team. ???
I was going to make a similar point as RegionII on this issue. I know 2 kids who live in Mass., but are on the RI ODP teams. One goes to school in RI, so I at first thought that might be the out, but the other actually goes to school in Conn. I also know kids from outside Mass. who play on Mass. club teams, but could not get the necessary release from their states to play on Mass. ODP teams. It appears to me that if you are a really strong player, as were these out of state players, your state DOC is not going to release you to play for another state's ODP team, but if you would be unlikely to make your own state's ODP team, but could make another's state's, than they will.
I don't think there are any rules prohibiting players from choosing the club team in one state, and ODP in another state. Moreover, I don't believe that the player need live in either of those states. But the rules are one thing, politics are another. There was nothing preventing a girl from playing Eclipse in Illinois and doing Wisconsin ODP. Except for the Wisconsin coaching staff, who banded together in a show of Wisconsin solidarity, and who promptly cut the girl from the Wisconsin ODP program for having the temerity to play for a rival state's club.
I know who you are talking about, she is a great player, going to Univ of Minnesota if Im thinking of the same girl. Iv heard about this same story. Somthing to think about huh?? Which comes into play, is it Development or is it selfishness? What can your player do for me?
We are heading down the same path -- live in WI, play club in IL -- and she is doing IL ODP...so far, I have only been told that she can only try out for "1 state team" and there is no "release" policy in place. But, I have heard that different states handle that differently.
What age was that girl? Being right smack in between the two states -- I am not familiar with who that is...there was one girl that played FCM, went to the Eclipse for 1 year -- and returned to FCM this year -- she has played WI ODP and R2 ODP for the past few years....
This was a few years back, the girl would be about a U20 by now. It's no myth. The guy who told me the story knew the situation well. (I believe that the girl was a high school classmate of his daughter.) The girl was good enough to tempt the relentless poachers at Eclipse , and good enough to be a star on a nationally ranked team, but according to the Wisconsin ODP staff no longer good enough to make the State ODP squad. They must make some very good players in Green Bay and Appleton, since they are better than the Eclipse's stars ...
Yeah, I don't doubt it happened -- I just thought of the girl R2 was talking about -- and I knew that did not happen to her....but things are heavy with the ol' politics in both WI and IL -- and I am lucky enough to live right on the border and have been around each side for a number of years....
I can't say with 100% confidence I know who R2 is talking about, but an educated guess leads to: KW - plays for FC Milwaukee, is an 87 or 88 -won't post the full name for the sake of the kid still being in high school. If someone else wants to, that is their call. R2, can you confirm?
That is who I believe R2 is talking about as well -- but it sounds like John had a different person in mind....
I knew there would be questions about my statements, so...here is the supporting documentation. "Rule 201- Player Registration Section 1 A youth player must register each seasonal year in the State Association in which he/she resides with his/her parents or guardian or guardians, or, for a student in residence at a boarding school, college or university, or division of college or university is located. Any other question of residency may be determined by the State Association in which the player is registered to vote or holds a current driver's license. Section 2 a Any youth player wishing to play on a team of a member of a State Association other than the State Association where the player is registered must recieve writeen permission from- 1) the State Association where the player is registered and 2) the other State Association of the team on which the player wishes to play. b Permission must be obtained each seasonal year. Rule 203 Olympic Development Player Tryouts Section 1 Except as provided in section 2 of this rule, a player wishing to try out for the Olympic Development Program may only try out and be selected for the Program through the State Association in which the player may be registered under Rule 201 of this policy. Section 2 A player given permission under section 2 of Rule 201 of this Policy in a State Association other than where the player is registered, may request written permission to try out for the other Olympic Development Program of that other State Association. to be eligible to try out for that other State Association, the player must obtain written permission from-\ 1) the State Association where the player is registered and, 2) the other State Association where the player wishes to try out. Section 3 A player may only try out for the Olympic Develoopment Program in one State Association. A player is responsible for all Olympic Development Program fees in the State Association where the player tries out " We were burned by use of these rules against us, our daughter was asked to become a part of another State's ODP in Region 2. Our State DOC refused to sign a release for her even though he did not want to select her for our State's squad. It really seemed quite silly at the time because I know that these rules aren't enforced when they BENEFIT out State Association by bringing in players from other States. I AM NOT WHINING, LET ME MAKE THAT CLEAR. I am stating facts that I know to be true in response to questions/comments on this topic. My kid will continue to work hard and her accomplishments will speak for themselves, or they won't. That is up to her and what level she can attain, not "politics" or my whining. The full policy can be found at the link below. I apologize for any mis-spellings or accidental transposition of words and such. Since it is a PDF file, I couldn't copy and paste-- I had to transpose them. http://usyouthsoccer.org/doc_lib/Players%20and%20Playing%20Rules%20Policy%209-1-05.pdf Now, these policies and thier correct application/usage/abuse is going to be an explosive topic. I can just foresee that now...... I'll grab some popcorn and sit and watch.......
i didn't take it as whining....just explaining how things can work. good for those that have more than one state as an option. that is just not right. she's not "good enough" to be on your resident state's team but she's a threat if she's on another state's team? great sportsmanship attitude there.
wouldn't it depend on why the coach left the club? i've been involved in a bunch of riding associations. politics sometimes have nothing to do with the sport.