Here are the four teams' groups: Group C Real Madrid Roma AEK Athens KRC Genk Group D Inter Olympique Lyon Ajax Rosenborg Group E Juventus Feyenoord Dynamo Kyiv Newcastle Group G Bayern Munich Deportivo La Coruna Milan Lens Milan definitely got the hardest draw, not surprising because they were a third seed, but for being a top seed, I think Juve's is a very difficult one. Roma will not be happy seeing Real again, but hopefully they learned last year, you just need to beat the OTHER two teams.
It's based on the teams' club coefficients, which are in turn based on their performance in European competition over the past five years. It's all explained at: http://www.xs4all.nl/~kassiesa/bert/uefa/index.html The top-ranked Italian team is actually LAZIO (5th), mainly on the strength of their Cup-Winners' Cup win in 1999, their trip to the UEFA Cup final in 1998, and their quarterfinal appearance in the CL in 2000. Other Italian teams' positions in the rankings: 7 - Juventus and Parma(!) tied 10 - Inter (winning the 98 UEFA Cup figures greatly in this high ranking) 16- Roma 23- Milan 35- Fiorentina (RIP) 41- Udinese and Bologna (tied) 86- Sampdoria (!) Sampdoria is ranked that high because the club coefficient starts from a number based on their league's "country coefficient". Just by participating in the 97-98 UEFA Cup (they lost their two matches), they get ranked! Next year, they'll be gone obviously, replaced by Chievo. Note that, barring another great run this year, Inter will drop quite a bit next year because the 98 season drops off the scale, replaced by this season's results.
Wow, thanks SueB! Just as complicated as the FIFA World Rankings, and I'm sure they generate just as much controversy. I hope this might teach some of the Italian teams to take these competitions seriously. The last two years I got the sense that many teams were basically ignoring things like the UEFA Cup to concentrate on the scudetto. Eventually that will hurt not only the teams coefficeint but also the country calculation.
Yes! EVERY game is important! Even supposedly meaningless group games after both teams have clinched or been ko'd. And yesterday's loss by Milan hurts their coefficient slightly (or rather, didn't help it) even though they still made it through the tie. And the club seeding is only the least of it. The most important part of coefficients is that it determines the number of spots available to each league for the Champions League, UEFA Cup, etc. A few years ago, Italy was comfortably on top of the standings. After last year, they were well behind Spain in second and are likely to slip behind England and maybe even Germany this year because the highly-successful 97/98 numbers will drop off the scale. If they do drop to fourth, they will lose one CL berth.
we had a discussion about this last january/february: Italy has already lost one spot in CL for the 2003-04 season; even if the italian clubs filled the brackets of the semifinals of Champions League and UEFA cup,those results will begin to count only from 2004-05 season (because clubs have to know in advance which place in the standings thay have to clinch to partecipate in the european competitions the following season)
Guess that was a period that I was working instead of posting. I know I was oversimplifying it, figuring anybody who was interested could go to that link. So please bear with me while I try to figure it out. Number of spots for the FOLLOWING season must already be known before play begins, so teams know what positions they are playing for. So, this year's number of spots was based on coefficients accumulated up to the end of the 2001 season, right? Which would be 96-97, 97-98, 98-99, 99-00, 00-01. Italy was 2nd. http://www.xs4all.nl/~kassiesa/bert/uefa/crank01.html And the spots for 2003-4 season would be based on 97-98 through 01-02. I still see Italy ranked 2nd. http://www.xs4all.nl/~kassiesa/bert/uefa/crank02.html I'm sure you're right, you always are, so what am I missing? Maybe somebody has calculated ahead and seen Italy cannot possibly make up the difference with England and Germany when 98-99 results fall away. but wouldn't this effect the 2004-5 season not 03-04?
sorry,i didn't do calculations,nor do i know the rules in details,but it was announced on italian media as a mathematically acquired fact. maybe the more recent results have a higher coefficient?
No, every year counts the same. Are you sure it was for 2003-4 and not 2004-5? Actually, I bet that's it. They probably meant that, for the 2003-4 season, only 3 teams will qualify for the 2004-5 champions league. No room for confusion there....
seems illogical though,that neither the results of 2002-03 nor 2003-04 count to determine the number of spots every federation will have in 2004-05 season
2003-4 does not count. But 2002-3 does count, and I'm just guessing that somebody has calculated that Italy cannot score enough coefficient points this season to make up for the loss of their superiority over England and Germany in 97-98, which will no longer count.
Bumping an old thread due to recent news... Soccer-Spain, Italy and England keep four Champions League spots