Hitzfeld lost 0:4 to Zenit. Period! I'm really sick of all these stupid post in which the past gets idealized over and over again. Kahn wouldn't have won this game for Bayern and so wouldn't have Hitzfeld
Thank you DI. Maybe they'll get it coming from another Bayern fan. I get guys not wanting to believe I might know what I'm talking about seeing that I'm an "outsider......"
There is only one thing certain in football that the past won't bring you even a little bit forward. What use has this talk about the 'best defense' besides being totally nonsense? It serves only one thing and that is idealizing the past though and it should no be forgotten that in this very famed season the defense showed enough glimpses of failure in international games and the offensive was much more crippled at that time. Which leads to the decisive point that comparing Hitzfeld related with Klinsmann related things must lead to failure and wrong conclusions as there are two very distinct approaches to the game involved.
Yes and what is missing from that defense this year??? The stability of a COMPETENT goalkeeper!! How about the FACT that other teams went out and made themselves better since last season while Bayern stood pat?? Did you ever think about those things? DSF isn't going to tell you that shit. It doesn't sell. Getting you drooling about when Klinsmann might get the ax does. It's great to watch the shows on DSF. I do too when I can. However, what you need to realize is that they only give you food for thought and only what they want you to think about. The rest, you should do yourself. For example. Yes, KHR and Uli probably never have looked more deflated. But did you ever stop to think that might be because they are actually considering THEIR ROLE in this entire mess???
Beckenbauer said he can't remember a worse Bayern first half ever. How about when Bayern conceded 5 goals in Frankfurt in the first 45 minutes in 1975 when Beckenbauer was 'marshalling' the Bayern defense? I'm sure he remembers that. But then again, Barcelona today is not as sharp a side as Frankfurt was in the mid-1970s.
Mabye the Kaiser already forgot the crushing 3:0 defeat once in Lyon that made him do this 'famous' speech at the traditional feast after the game
My guess is he would defend that saying they were successful in Europe during those years. It is Beckenbauer though, he often is erratic in his responses.
Is it not funny when people here mention one 4-0 against Hizfeld in 8 years while we can mention at least 3 5 goals conceded in 9 Klinsmann months. How did the best defence in the league become so crappy under a year with same personel? Barca we played a 3rd rate line up? What of Bremen and Wolfsburg with lesser quality?
And we played denfensive compact football. Klismann needs the appropriate players Uli is not willing to spend, or he will continue to be a monumental failure.
When we had Oddo this year that should make for Jansen who hardly played. A coach should know how to adapt when u dont have the right quality of players. Every national coach can as well complain his country is not as talented as Brazil thats why they cant win. What are tactics for. When bayern starts getting drubbed by Wolfsburg 5-1 I feel like puking
And there is no proof he would have ever found his game at Bayern. I didn't like that Bayern sold Jansen, but the fact of the matter is that some players just don't fit at Bayern. I think this was the case with Jansen. HSV is a big club, but there isn't the pressure that comes with playing for Bayern there. He was bound to find his game there.
It certainly was the right decision for him to request the transfer after Klinsmann told him that he saw him only as backup for Lahm. It's the typical Bayern overestimation that his departure wasn't fixed properly
I just finally had the nerve to watch the CL review show ESPN puts out. They detailed the game. (I originally was at school listening to FCB web-radio) My god.... where do we begin.... a) Tactics This is easy to point to a day or two after, but even before the match, my thoughts were "we should attack this team". Again, Porto at ManU is the perfect example why. You simply cannot afford to let attacking teams have their own half of the field to opperate in and thus keep pounding the ball in the oppositions own half all game. This is what attacking teams live for, as attacking is their strength. These types of teams get used to the opposition's tactics of 'showing them too much respect' and thus giving them half a field to work in. Why do the hell you think Barca play with 3 forwards? Because no one defends them differently. If teams would attack their exposed back four due to the fact they have only 3 to protect them in midfield, they may be forced to change. So what would have been the solution? Well, it wasn't as if the news going into Barca was good for our defense, right? So why rely on defending when we clearly couldn't field our best defense, nor could we stop a shot if we had to the last week?!!! PLUS, AWAY GOALS COUNT FOR SOMETHING in this competition. Putting a few goals away would have made this deficit much more 'livable' than it currently is, and could have kept us in the tie. As it stands, our tactics have put us completely out of the competition altogether. Playing with two strikers would have been a start. At least provide one more player the opportunity to win a ball in the opposite half and get fouled or earn deadballs, thus providing SOME chances. b) Lineup I am not sure what much else 'could' have been done with regards to what we had available. Some unfortunate injuries and crisis (DVB) provided the death knoll of this tie. I love how in the post game interview how KHR claimed that "squad depth had nothing to do with this result". LMAO! You arrogant fecking c*nt! Wake up dude! Bayern's best XI was necessary and even THEN would have still struggled. The blind arrogance that comes out of the Bayern camp for sake of saving face and protection to the media has always pissed me off. How about some frank honesty (thank you Franzie B!). Not having Lucio and/or DVB was detrimental. Demichelis is by far our worst performing of the 3 this season at CB, and Breno is clearly not on the same level as the other two. For the record, I think in all fairness Breno has been exposed as a young inexperienced CB in the past two matches, but given the circumstances, I don't think any CB with that little experience would have wanted their first major performances for their club to be against the best team in the world presently and the most dangerous team in the Bundesliga presently. c) Lahm, Lell, Oddo, and then who??? Much of the last page has been dedicated to the replacement situation for Philip Lahm. This to me has been the biggest obvious scenario Bayern management KNEW they potentially could face, and nothing was done to reinforce it. Philip Lahm is a massive key to our success and attack. He makes the left side tick. Without him Franck is, well, the Franck we have seen the past two matches. So why have Bayern not invested in a quality replacement who is capable of playing at RB or LB. This is a major concern to me going into the Transfer Market. At best, to plug the gaps this game, we could have used anyone besides Lell to cover Messi. Someone suggested ZeRoberto, but I suggested Ailtontop. But doing this only shows you just the lack of depth we have at LB/RB. But depth didn't kill us in this match, right KHR?!! d) Goalkeeper Sorry to say, but regardless of Rensing's 5 goal let in during the weekend, changing him last minute was (a) wrong and (b) made no difference regardless of opponent. It was wrong in that if you are going to say as management all season that this is our #1, then bench him for arguably the most important game of this man's career, it would call you a hypocrite. Now we ALL know I have had my fair share of criticism for Michael Rensing, but just like when the US Women's national team benched Hope Solo prior to facing Brazil in the World Cup years back, I think it was a BAD decision. You just don't shake up the goalkeeper situation like that. If anything, give the poor bastard a chance to remedy a situation, in this instance a 5 goal drubbing in Volkswagonland. e) Dream lineup vs. Barcelona Just for the helluvit, since the tie is OVER, let's think of what 'could have been'. If I was manager for a day and had a pick of currently rostered healthy players for a lineup to face the team currently playing the most exciting football on the planet, I would have gone with.... ..........................Rensing...................... Ailtontop........Lucio...........DVB............Lahm ...............Von Bommel....Demichelis......... Ribery........................................Ze Roberto ...................Toni...........Klose................. Compare that with what we fielded: .........................Butt.......................... Oddo.........Demichelis...Breno...........Lell ..............VonBommel....ZeRoberto......... Ailtontop..................................Ribery ......................Schweinsteiger............ ........................Toni......................... Need we say more about what was necessary to play this team in Nou Camp Stadium?! Oh, but KHR says there was not reason to point at the lack of depth, my apologies.
Have I actually posted about my dream about that match I had days before the game ? https://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showthread.php?p=17402774#post17402774
Yes Eiss. You're right. Putting Lukas Podolski out there would have given them so much more of a chance to at least score. Come on man. You write as if scoring against Barca would be easy. Dude, Barca may be known for offense, but they can play some defense and counter-attack too. I said Bayern should attack Barca before the match too. But that was before I knew Toni isn't fully fit and Lahm and Lucio wouldn't be in the back to defend against the Barcelona counter-attacks. Or do you really believe that Barcelona doesn't know how to counter-attack? Do you really believe that Barcelona wouldn't have adjusted quickly to anything that weak "C" team Bayern put out there would have done?? It's easy to sit and rant when you're PO'd man, but you should remember there are two sides to every story. You rant against the tactics. I say the guys out there gave a f#cking s#it effort. They looked defeated from the opening whistle. Six in one, half a dozen in the other. What I don't get is that below, you acknowledge the horses weren't there to effectively play with a full-strength Barcelona side, yet you still find a way to rant against "tactics...." You don't seem to consider lack of depth at all in ranting against the offensive tactics, but you do in defense below. Why is that?? Offensively, if you'd said putting Klose out there could have done something, then I might agree. But Podolski or Mueller? Again, come on man. Klinsmann may not be doing a bang-up job, but being offensively effective in this match wasn't as simple as putting another striker out there either. I don't think Barca would have allowed this Bayern team to play their own game at all, no matter who of the available players was out there. Just as you say below, even with a full squad, this was a difficult task. How was this "C" team of Bayern's supposed to pull off all this stuff you say they should have or could have just by putting on another striker?? And with the lack of effort that was displayed, there's no tactical formation that would have made things better. Again, here you recognize how lack of squad depth killed the tie, yet you rant about "tactics" above. I don't get it. The lack of depth isn't just in midfield and defense. For strikers, all you had on the bench were a punk who can't wait for the season to be over so he can run home to mommy and a kid with zero experience. You somehow expected this side to trouble a team like Barcelona? I would understand more if they at least had Lucio in the back, but why leave Oddo, Demi, Breno and Lell fully exposed to Barcelona counter-attacks?? Dude. Putting Rensing in that situation would have finished off whatever is left of his confidence. They knew this and they pretty much "sacrificed" Butt. Why? Butt has the experience and he can handle this better. Benching Rensing had nothing to do with Wolfsburg and everything to do about saving this kid's psyche and confidence. As a coach yourself you should understand this better than most! This isn't Hope Solo and Brazil man. That USA team wasn't coming off a hard and difficult defeat and facing Brazil with a "C" squad. I'm really surprised that you of all people would type some mess like that. Wait and see. Rensing will be right back in goal on Saturday. He was only benched to spare him from having to face another ordeal. They knew they couldn't compete with Barca with the team they fielded. And it showed...... Eiss, besides correctly lamenting the lack of depth, what are you saying here? I'm confused because you said: If I was manager for a day and had a pick of currently rostered healthy players for a lineup to face the team currently playing the most exciting football on the planet, I would have gone with.... And then you went on to post a lineup in which four players weren't available. I get it if you were comparing what would have been a full-strength lineup to the one that was fielded, but the four guys referenced are not "currently rostered healthy players." Again, Klinsmann is by no means a great coach, but in considering his fate, Uli and KHR should take a look in the mirror and realize that while they are two of the greatest at what they do, they failed this young coach. As I said in the Klinsmann countdown thread, Klinsmann will probably be fired. If they don't blow Frankfurt off the field, he'll be fired sooner rather than later. However, while it will be "understandable", it certainly won't be "fair." But life isn't fair either and both sides will move on.
I recall getting irritated when I read an interview with Philip Lahm. He clearly stated that we did not have wha it takes yet to win the Champion's league. Looking back he was right, his candor is JUST what the team needs. A voice of reason. Sure it's not easy to hear bu the sooner we ID the weanesses and not ignore them, the sooner we can address them. About Lahm, please PLEASE KHR, you need to do whatever it takes to keep him w/Bayern his whole career. He's on his way to being the CPT. BY far, he's my favorite player. For this upcoming Tuesday, I bet that we see members of the Junior team starting. 100% attention will be turned to the Bundesliga. What's the point of picking up an injury in a lost tournament?
Footy.... your read way to much into this post. You are taking my post as if I expected a Bayern win. LOL! Hell, no. I just wanted to escape so we had a shot left in the return leg. I am realistic, not a dreamer. I will do my best to better communicate my post. A) never did I ever expect scoring on Barcalona would be easy if possible. Adding the second striker would simply have put the possibility of having the opportunity to keep a ball in Barcelona's half of the field long enough to get more players involved. Luca Toni versus Barca's backline, no. Again, I was suggesting the possibility. This may not have been the reality. I am not sure you understood entirely my talk on Tactics, and perhaps it is in the wrong thread. My whole premise was that attacking teams need to be tested defensively, period. I have made a habit of taking this approach with the local Catholic juggernaut in my high school conferences, and since taking this approach, have not lost a conference match to them in 4 years (2-0-2). I am simply drawing on my own experiences as a coach on a much lower level. B) it should be stated that I immediately stated under my tactics "rant" that it is easy to be an armchair manager after the fact. Please note that. C) regarding the "in a perfect world" setting for a lineup, I did mean if we had an entirely healthy lineup of rostered players. I understand the confusion. I was in fact including everyone. My point was to show that even with the most dangerous and effective weapons and ball stoppers available we STILL may not have even matched up against Barca - we all knew this going in, including yourself - BUT had I been given the chance to put out a lineup that would play the way Jurgen wanted to play tactically on the road (minimize Barca's chances, escape 0-0 1-1 0-1) then this is the lineup that Eissman would have choosen. D) the acceptance of the FACT that we gave a sh*t effort is a given in this entire discussion. Bringing that up is not even in the equation in my book. Yet you dwell on it consistantly in your post. You are exactly right.... the effort was absolutely patheticly embarrassing for any fan of the game, most of all a Bayern fan. I think the announcers on ESPN stated it best in the recap show... If Real Madrid fielded their "B" lineup against Barcelona, Real would have NEVER given up 4 goals in the first 45 minutes!!" Last point about the response you had and I will be done with it... Keith, you know we have come to respect each other's posts and opinions, but please try to understand that the fact most of us in hear are licking our wounds after such a humbling experience. All many of us realistically wanted was a better showing; I don't think anyone in this forum honestly felt that after the draw was announced that we would have much of a chance to advance. The spanking is part of the game and fully deserved after our performances of recent weeks, and perhaps long overdue. I am gutted over the performance personally as you know I live for the CL glory-hunting. You read way too much into my post.