Okay, this cuts against what I have wanted in a coach in the past, but if the alternative really is Carlos for another year, let's dump his ass and hire CJ. Yes, I think he should get some coaching experience first, but he WANTS to coach. He lives and breathes the Fire. He has the respect of nearly every player in the clubhouse and would get rid of those who don't respect him and the shirt. He get's it. More than any player in our history, he get's what it means to be a part of this team and what the relationship between supporters and players should be. So, there would be growing pains for sure. There were in Salt Lake when Kreis took over, but he moved straight from the field to the bench and CJ is every bit as intelligent and skilled when it comes to relationships with players as Jason is. CJ knows the league inside and out. He knows the Fire organization inside and out. He knows the American player and how to deal with them. Get him a good experienced top assistant to help run training and be another set of eyes and ears on the bench, and I think he could be a massive upgrade on what we have NEXT year. If this was the same team as three years ago, I would say, "no way." That was a ready made contender. This team is not. We will be building up again and can afford a rookie coach making rookie mistakes. He is already making noise at his retirement press call that he WANTS to coach. Can we simply throw him into the fire as a head coach now? Why not? I think that most of us would take Jesse Marsch in a heartbeat but he only has minimal experience over CJ as an assistant. Both are really bright and both could potentially get players to run through a wall for them. I think it merits consideration right now.
I am on board with this. My slogan for the offseason is A-B-C (ANYONE BUT CARLOS). It will never happen though.
I think CJ would make a fine coach. He's been coaching CFJ for years at the older ages, and clearly loves it. My feeling, though, is that they should hire him as an assistant and have him in the wings. I spoke to him this past Monday at one of his practices and he's pure class. The word I have is that Los Lobos isn't going anywhere and meetings are already happening (with Los Lobos involved) about where the team is going. I kind of think the Cubs should have done the same thing with Ryno--put him in as bench coach for a season or two until the inevitable firing of the manager, then bump him up. I think this would be the best approach for CJ. But I'd support him no matter what. He loves the game and this team.
worked well for RSL. While there was some growing pains with Kreis's early tenure, it was all building up into what it is today. IMO, i want to see more MLS players in the thick of managing.
Yep. Two questions. 1) would you take Kreis NOW as a coach?; and 2) are we competitive for a championship next year regardless of who is coach. I have heard two different refrains now from people who seem to have inside info with the team. One claims that cdlc has one foot out the door to El Salvador and will leave soon after the game this weekend. The second, far more depressing theme is the one above, that cdlc is already planning on next year with the Fire. If we take him at his word, he will be building around Nery and he will employ the same "system" as this year but will bring in more of his own players. I'd rather watch videos of boils being lanced.
I'd love for those of us that have heard this to be wrong, no question about it. I can't guarantee my info, so I'm holding out hope it's faulty.
Why do people in soccer always jump at wanting former players to the be the coach when they have no experience coaching, and history shows that more often than not it ends up being a bad idea? This doesn't happen in any of the other big sports, so why soccer?
I don't want him to jump right into it yet b/c if he loses his first 8 games or whatever then all the people singing his praises in this forum will be calling for his head. Y'all can have short memories sometimes.
It does happen from time to time. Again, I don't think its ideal but its far better than another year with cdlc. We just got beat in the conference final by a guy that literally moved from the field to a coat and tie. Peter Nowak took a year off, but essentially went from playing to coaching with no intermediate step and won an MLS Cup. In baseball, Pete Rose managed while still playing and did pretty well as a manager despite having no experience. Avery Johnson retired as a player and immediately took over the Mavericks and had 60 wins his first year. Joe Girardi was very close. He spent part of one year as a bench coach after retiring as a player before he became the Marlins manager. You are right that it is not common, but I'm actually coming up with more successes than failures. With a team that will not likely be picked as a contender next year, I don't see the harm.
Well, I wouldn't, but I do see your point. That is a risk any time you hire a player who is a fixture in your team. I want the best coach possible. I just think that CJ should be in the discussion. No one would likely bring the passion he would have for the Fire. Few would have the knowledge of our organization. Few would have the instant respect of the team. Having said that, if a great candidate were available, I'm not saying that we MUST do this. I'm saying that if they are planning on bringing Carlos back, then please, please, please consider CJ instead.
I forgot Larry Bird: Despite having no previous coaching experience, Bird led the Pacers to a 58–24 record—the franchise's best as an NBA team at the time—in the 1997–98 season, and pushed the Bulls to seven games in the Eastern Conference finals. He was named the NBA Coach of the Year for his efforts, becoming the only person in NBA history to have won both the MVP and Coach of the Year awards. He then led the Pacers to two consecutive Central Division titles in 1999 and 2000, and a berth in the NBA finals in 2000.
The thing about letting a player like CJ take the reigns would be we'd have to give him time. Kreis had 2 poor seasons before his team finally clicked. Now they are a team of no big names, but they are capable of beating anyone in the league. Do i think CJ should get it? Not really, id much rather see him get asst. job and learn. But then again, the guy knows the league, his player pool and has Klopas scouting and signing. He knows what our players are capable of.
Joe Giardi Lou Pinella Pete Rose Joe Torre Connie Mack John McGraw It happens all the time in baseball. Yeah, Mack and MaGraw are 19th century ball players but they are also the two most winning managers in baseball history. Joe Torre is 5th all-time. I'm trying to think of another Chicagoan that was successful. Drawing a blank here. Oh yes, George Stanley Halas - the man who started the team and lived it till the day he died some 60 years later. C.J. Brown for coach? Why not C.J. Brown for George Stanley Halas? Oh I feel an article coming on....
Another soccer example, though a year removed from exactly the same situation, would be Pep Guardiola. Ended his career in 2006, took over Barca B in 2007, Barca in 2008. Huge difference in league, quality of player, etc... but within it's own context, CJ would certainly qualify within MLS as having a similar stature.
Happens all the time = has not happened in 25 years? Giardi didn't go direct from player to manager. The other few examples there are over 25 years ago.
Well, I don't know if it's quite the same as he wasn't managing the A team as you pointed out. I'd be fine with CJ being the Reserves coach, but.... the point you are making, which I agree with, is that this DOES happen in soccer far more than other sports. I haven't researched it but off the top of my head AC Milan, Newcastle, Middlesbrough, West Ham, and Celtec all have had rookie managers in the last 2 years or so (and, BTW, have all failed more or less). It is not as uncommon for a manager of an top league soccer team to be entering his first job as a manager. While there are a small number of exceptions, this type of thing is virtually unheard of in every other sport in the US. For example: When Payton Manning retires from football, do you think there is a single team in the NFL that would consider hiring him as head coach? No fricking way.
Avery Johnson had almost an entire season as assistant coach before he took over so I wouldn't count him. As I was saying, soccer seems to be the only sport that does this. There are a number of examples in our league and others. Most don't work out, but of course some do. But the idea of handing a team over to a rookie, is a bad bet. Soccer seems to be the only sport where teams still make this risk with some regularity, even though evidence shows it usually doesn't work out.
Football is waaaaaaaay different with its specialization. In the old days when 11 guys played both ways, I could see it. Not now. Soccer is more like basketball and hockey but even then it is very different with no game breaks. It's all in the preparation and a little bit with halftime adjustments and 2nd half subs. Right now, there are two coaches in MLS who had no experience. There are several others that had a year or maybe two as an assistant before getting their shot. Yes, that is worth something, but how much? I think most agree that Jesse Marsch is ready to coach and he has just a small amount of time working with Bob. Ideally, CJ gets some experience as an assistant, but if that comes at the cost of Carlos coaching another year, then no thanks. I'd rather have on the job training like Kreis. CJ has been coaching the older youth players, apparently, which is absolutely worth something. Again, my choice would be to get a proven coach with a track record to come in . . . let's say Sunday morning . . . and bring CJ along as an assistant. If that doesn't happen, then I am talking about this as an alternative to cdlc. One more. Our very own Eddie Olczyk went from playing, to the tv booth, to head coach of the Penguins with no previous coaching experience. He was decent for a couple of years and then got off to a bad start in his third year and was fired. Btw, hockey is way more labor intensive for a coach in-game than soccer. with match-ups and line changes, hockey is a tough game to coach.
I think we can add Ray Hudson to the list as well, although he did not fare so well after inheriting Rongen's mess in DC. Peter Nowak benefited from Hudson's work in turning that team around.
I posted this in another thread Actually they should send him overseas to coach clinics, so he can learn new playing styles and he can go see Barca/Netherlands academy's and then in 2 years come back to be a coach.