Cities that haven't been disscussed

Discussion in 'MLS: Expansion' started by DoyleG, Sep 23, 2003.

  1. DoyleG

    DoyleG Moderator
    Staff Member

    FC Edmonton
    Jan 11, 2002
    Winnipeg, MB
    FC Edmonton
    Nat'l Team:
    Make it on a serious note this time.

    Although some jokes will be tolerated.;)
  2. The Voice of Reason!

    Jan 6, 2002
    Wethersfield CT
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    McAllen Texas
    not so much a traditional central city, but there are a million people there. it is also growing extremely fast. and if anyplace has a large nearby mexican population... this is it.
    call them the NAFTA Traders

    Grand Rapids Michigan
    almost identical to Rochester. barring any "not untill Detroid has a team comments" it is a possibility.

    Tuscon AZ
    no other teams... I dunno, i got nothing

    Long Island.
    we talk about Manhattan alot, but LI has millions of people. and a few Billionairs. there is land to build on near the major highways. massive Soccer hot spot. and demografic screams for soccer.

    thats the best i can do right now.
  3. TomEaton

    TomEaton Member

    Mar 5, 2000
    Champaign, IL
    When certain cities haven't been discussed, there's usually a very good reason: there's no reasonable possibility of them getting a team any time soon. So why bother?

    A city needs two things to be considered for an MLS team: an owner (OK, investor/operator), and a stadium. If it hasn't got those things, or the possibility of getting them, no chance.

    Look at San Diego. Never mentioned once as being among a leading MLS expansion city. Then Vergara comes along and says he'll own the team and can get a good deal to play at Qualcomm, and bingo, San Diego moves to the top of the list.
  4. crash2772

    crash2772 New Member

    Mar 18, 2001
    san juan...

    this past summer i saw an ESPN clip concerning the largest US populations without an NFL team. Well, LA was number two....

    the San Juan, PR area was first by a long shot.

    Baseball is trying it with the Expos...

    I understand there is no I/O that we know of, and i dont even know if there is even a soccer 'culture' in PR, but it has to be somewhere on the list of cities that havent been discussed.

    BTW- i believe Chris Armas is from PR, so he can be the 'marquee signing.' ;-)

    anyone else have any info about PR?
  5. counterattack

    counterattack New Member

    Mar 28, 2002
    Not all that dumb

    This thread actualy has some thought behind it.
    There are a number of fast growing places in America that do not get the consideration they deserve because of antiquated ideas of what is a large city.

    If MLS was picking cities strictly based on present size and rate of growth no one would be talking Philly, San Diego, Seattle or Portland, for example.

    The new list would include Las Vegas, Raliegh Durham, Austin, Salt Lake City, Fresno, among others. Because these cities do not have dominating regional media outlets, they get short shrift. But, is that wise? There was a time, not even a century ago when Los Angeles was a small California city. Phoenix wasn't much more than a county seat, and Dallas was a small town next to Fort Worth. Think about it.
  6. Calexico77

    Calexico77 Member

    Sep 19, 2003
    Mid-City LA
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    If MLS was picking cities strictly based on present size and rate of growth no one would be talking Philly, San Diego, Seattle or Portland, for example.

    That's just it, they aren't picking cities based on that. And rightly so.

    Right now, I think there needs to be much more attention to viability of fan base, and the willingness to buy/build/refurbish a quality field.
    That's why I think there is a good reason for some cities to get two teams. Especially NY NJ. I mean, let New Jersey keep the Metros and put another team in Queens or somewhere on Long Island

    I've been quietly wondering whether Carson, while ideal for many people in Long Beach and South Los Angeles, was that great a place for a team. It's a freakin' hour at least (in the ever present 405 traffic) south of the main L.A. basin (Santa Monica to East L.A.). I love the Galaxy, but that's not an easy drive to make a weekday game after work

    If they could build a stadium in the San Fernando Valley, the nebulous idea of "Los Angeles" could easily hold two teams because all of the Soccer mom's in the fast-growing Ventura County area could make it in time.

  7. soccer4sFlorida

    soccer4sFlorida New Member

    Oct 23, 2002
    sorry guys

    but what a bunch !!! of poopoo ???
  8. Syracusefan

    Syracusefan New Member

    May 18, 2003
    North Syracuse
    The only city I can think of in the A-League that has NOT been discussed and is getting high Attendance & has a good base is Syracuse.

    The main drawbacks:

    1) Rochester is too close if it joins the MLS
    2) Syracuse has a lot of other sports that compete for entertainment dollars (unlike Rochester)
    3) The metro population is only 750,000.

    Also, Syracuse would need to drop that silly name "The Salty Dogs" even though it has really caught on locally.
  9. csc7

    csc7 New Member

    Jul 3, 2002
    I don't pay too much attention to this issue, but it seems that St. Louis doesn't get as much attention as it possibly deserves. Let me know why I'm wrong.
  10. joshdcu

    joshdcu New Member

    Jun 29, 1999
    Washington, DC
    Re: Not all that dumb

    Ok, but the Philadelphia Metro area has about 6 million people, which is a number that any of those fast-growing cities will take a loooooong time to reach.

    At 3 million-plus people each, San Diego and Seattle are big markets, too.

    Las Vegas, Raleigh-Durham, Salt Lake City, and Fresno may all be growing rapidly, but they're nowhere near those numbers.

    Of course, there's not much other pro sports competition in some of the smaller cities, so maybe they're worth looking at.

    I'm skeptical about Las Vegas, though: Yeah, there was an NASL team there for a short time, and there are a lot of new people there since those days (including a lot of families and Latinos). But I'd bet that an awful lot of peoples' entertainment budgets get spent at casinos and other such diversions (by locals as well as tourists...), which could make support for a local soccer team pretty fickle.
  11. Revolt

    Revolt Member+

    Jun 16, 1999
    Davis, CA
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    El Paso
    St Louis
  12. Len

    Len Member+

    Club: Dallas Tornado
    Jan 18, 1999
    Everywhere and Nowhere.....I'm the wind, baby.
  13. McGinty

    McGinty Member

    Aug 29, 2001
    Sporting Kansas City
    Maybe Kroenke's brother-in-law and Bill Laurie, owner of the St. Louis Blues and a man trying to get an NBA team in St. Louis, could keep the sibling-in-law rivalry going by getting involved in MLS as well if Kroenke is successful with MLS. Of course the main issue would be that Laurie would also probably have to build a stadium.
  14. Buzz Killington

    Buzz Killington Member+

    Oct 6, 2002
    Lee's Summit
    Kansas City Wizards
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Wasn't there talk like right after the 96 Olympics that people thought that Birmingham could support a team?
  15. Fuegofan

    Fuegofan Member

    Feb 17, 2001
    Re: san juan...

    Soccer doesn't have much history on the island. I understand we were playing it before 1914, and even had a national team that may have played Brazil. All that said, fewer people have been passionate in PR about soccer than here in the US, if that gives you an idea. My cousin (age 12) has played it in school, but I think she's the first generation to do so. The national team is currently in the doghouse with FIFA for organizational difficulties. At one point there was a 6 team league on the island. The last games I remember a result for were an 8-0 loss to Tampa Bay Mutiny and a pair of home and home losses to Grenada (the second one particularly painful because we scored! TWO goals in the first half without letting in any, before losing 4-0 at home).

    Chris Armas was born in New York, is of Puerto Rican descent, and played for the national team.

    Marco Velez was born in Carolina, Puerto Rico (incidentally, the same town that Roberto Clemente was born in), was drafted by the MetroStars. I guess he got dropped by them because last I heard, he was with Seattle Sounders, where he scored at least one game-winning goal (against Portland Timbers, early in the season).

    Those are the only two professional soccer players from Puerto Rico I know of.

    So the short answer to your question is that I don't think there is sufficient soccer culture to expect an MLS side to do well there. But I would love it if there were.
  16. Khansingh

    Khansingh New Member

    Jan 8, 2002
    The Luton Palace
    They don't call him the Voice of Reason for nothing. McAllen seems to be a market on the upswing, with the Rio Grande Valley Killerbees of the CHL and an expansion arena football team, plus all of the advantages of population (e.g. growth, proximity to Mexico). Grand Rapids is one of the few northern cities that's growing. Long Island seems like a natural to me, even if one traditionally associates soccer with the city.
  17. paladius

    paladius Member

    Sep 27, 2003
    Frisco, Texas
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Cities that can support teams

    Guys, help me out. Why isn't Minneapolis ever considered? They averaged nearly 40,000 per game during the NASL days!

    Vancouver and Seattle frequently had nearly 30,000!

    Both cities have vestiges of their original NASL teams that could be brought up to speed immediately.

    Fans in Vancouver and Seattle are sophisticated, and would be strong contributors.

    Houston makes me nervous. They have the demographics, but they never seem to support teams unless they consistently win.

    We need cities like Chicago that have fans that give their all to help a team through tough times.
  18. onefineesq

    onefineesq Member+

    Sep 16, 2003
    Laurel, MD
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Re: Cities that can support teams

    Well, there is talk that Houston is already starting to fall off the map. I read a quote from the NY times I believe, maybe a week ago, in which Vergara says he wouldn't go to Houston because he doesn't think that area is soccer friendly enough. As for Minneapolis, I can't tell you why noone is talking about a team there. I can't verify the huge crowds that you say used to come to games, but if that is TRULY the support that past teams got, well, it would seem sensible to get a team there. I guess maybe the question is weather in october and early november (which you would have to tell me about) and WHETHER there is an ownership group there that is willing to enter the league. It looks like the days of Anschultz and Hunt just placing teams into the league might be coming to an end. Then want OTHER guys who are willing to spend their OWN money to get teams up and running at this point.
  19. Blue Eyed Soul

    Blue Eyed Soul New Member

    Jan 22, 2003
    Gilbert, AZ USA
    Phoenix in 2005, People....Phoenix
  20. Goodsport

    Goodsport Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 18, 1999
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  21. halfnelson31

    halfnelson31 New Member

    Jul 23, 2002
    Columbia, SC. They can play at an expanded Stone Stadium(aka the Graveyard) on the USC campus only about 5 min away from downtown. Only prob would be parking. Im no Euro Snob but Palmetto FC sounds like a cool name. It would be mighty hot at games but so are games in LA and SJ(I assume anyway). I know that this will never happen but if it does i hope it happens in the next 3-5 years so i can see them while im in college down there:)
  22. Wolves_67

    Wolves_67 Member

    Oct 27, 2002
    Pasadena, CA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Don't know if it's still the case but the one thing I remember about McAllen is that on one side of the runway at the airport were cows and on the other side was a graveyard. :(
  23. Ikari

    Ikari Member

    Jun 11, 2003
    Las Vegas, NV
    Re: Re: Not all that dumb

    2 million residents in the 3 cities that make up the Las Vegas Valley (Henderson, Las Vegas, N. Las Vegas), there is more than enough money that's *not* being spent in casinos. The person or persons to put together an A-Leauge or MLS level soccer team will need to stick it out for 3-4 years at least if they want a proper fanbase to grow.

    Due to the time of year MLS plays, all home games will have to begin somewhere between 6-8pm. A domed stadium would negate that need.
  24. joshdcu

    joshdcu New Member

    Jun 29, 1999
    Washington, DC
    Re: Re: Re: Not all that dumb

    Fair enough. Put an A-League team there, then. A team might do alright, since there's not really much pro sports competition there (does LV have minor league baseball?).

    I still think there are other more attractive markets for MLS (Philadelphia, Seattle or Portland, Houston, Detroit, Minneapolis...), though.

    I agree about a Las Vegas team playing only in the evenings, due to the heat. Otherwise, who would put up the money for a domed stadium?
  25. The Voice of Reason!

    Jan 6, 2002
    Wethersfield CT
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    this is McAllens MSA info.

    McAllen in 2000 569,463
    Mcallen in 2010 854,886
    McAllen in 2020 1,171,409

    Brownsville's MSA is also relative.
    Brownsville in 2000 335,227
    Brownsville in 2010 450,485
    Brownsville in 2020 540,240

    Combined in 2000 904,690
    Combined in 2010 1,305,371
    Combined in 2020 1,711,649

    if this trend continues there would be over 3,400,000 people in 37 years, but this is pretty far off to go counting chickens.

    Population is 85% hispanic in both cities.

    someone should definately put some kind of team here. I would say A-league, but not if El-Paso closes up. so Maybe PSL for now.
    Travel would be killer as an A-league team, but it would make life a little easier on El-Paso, and they may develope a decent rivelry. Add another A-league team in Austin or San Antonio and they could maybe survive their travel costs.

Share This Page