Changes have to be made

Discussion in 'USA Men' started by bballshawn, Nov 18, 2014.

  1. Wessoman

    Wessoman Member+

    Sep 26, 2005
    Austin, TX
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    In fairness to JJ and JK, Jones had to do a lot of emergency defending because our midfield looked about as soft as a Pumpkin 20 days after Halloween.

    I have lots of bad things to say about JK, and yeah, I am openly asking for his head. But JJ at CB is one of the few experiments that hasn't been a total failure for the USMNT. Given time, I think JJ would be an excellent CB for us in the next cycle. And he's looked a hell of a lot better back there than Besler and Cameron. Both of those guys made "OTC" Danny Califf look like Charles Puyol by comparison in the last two matches.
     
  2. Ghosting

    Ghosting Member+

    Aug 20, 2004
    Pendleton, OR
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think JJ could be an excellent center back given time to really learn the position. The problem is, do you really put your time and energy in converting a guy who will continue playing midfield for his club team and will be 36 when the next WC rolls around? If he had looked better in the last few games in that position, I'd be OK with it. However, I'm not convinced that JJ is going to have the time to learn the positioning that will save him once his athleticism starts to fade.
     
    Berks repped this.
  3. LuckofLichaj

    LuckofLichaj Member+

    Mar 9, 2012
    I saw some of this as well, but just as long as he keeps his man off the ball, I'm not going to complain. Similar things could have been said about Carles Puyol.

    You want to see an absolutely terrible CB? Look at Geoff Cameron.
     
  4. olephill2

    olephill2 Member+

    Oct 6, 2006
    Club:
    Watford FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I disagree with each of these. Altidore isn't the problem on this team right now, and he is our best option at striker. Fabian Johnson is a bit out of form, but still one of our best players and I actually thought he was much better against Ireland. The defending from Matt Besler and Geoff Cameron was atrocious against Ireland, and Timothy Chandler didn't have a particularly strong game either.

    Regardless, Matt Doyle is right that Klinsmann has a bad habit of consistently playing guys out of position:
    • Danny Williams at RM in 2011
    • Maurice Edu in front of Kyle Beckerman as a playmaking #8 in 2011
    • Landon Donovan as a second striker from 2011-2013 (I would argue that he was at his most effective once converted to the wing under Bob Bradley in 2008)
    • Herculez Gomez as a LM in 2013
    • Eddie Johnson as a LM in 2013
    • Geoff Cameron as a DM in 2013/14 (I'm not saying he can't play the position, but I've really only thought he excelled as a DM once - against Panama in a WCQ in 2013 - and is better as a CB)
    • Michael Bradley on top of a diamond midfield with only one attacking player in front of him in the lead up to the World Cup and at the World Cup.
    • Alfredo Morales as a LM in yesterday's match against Ireland.
    Klinsmann has hit it right a couple times - DaMarcus Beasley's move to LB and Brad Evans' decent performances as a RB in 2013 come to mind, but for the most part, he has a long history of playing guys out of position for the US, with poor to mediocre outcomes.
     
    Footsatt, manoa, Elninho and 2 others repped this.
  5. Suyuntuy

    Suyuntuy Member+

    Jul 16, 2007
    Vancouver, Canada
    Maybe it's time to call back Freddy Adu.
     
    Jsean repped this.
  6. StrikerX4

    StrikerX4 Member

    Jun 16, 2011
    Lawrence, NJ
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Fun thread. Without reading everyone's response, here are my quick thoughts:

    1. Drop deadweight that isn't contributing and won't in the future: Wood and Wondo come to mind first for me.
    2. Stop randomly placing players on the field. Garza at LM? Chandler at LB?
    3. End the Cameron at CB experiment. I've never understood why we put him here. He consistently makes costly errors (worse than Gonzalez who gets a lot more grief). He has good skills and can be useful, but he needs to play CDM or somewhere else.
    4. Make Yedlin the starting RB. He is a better option there than Fab, if for no reason other than he specializes at RB for club while Fab does not.
    5. Diskerud does not look like a 90-minute guy at the international level to me. I think he can be useful here and there, but I'm hoping we see more Lee Nguyen or other options in the AM role.

    On the positives, I'm glad we are experimenting at CB. It took us far too long last cycle to figure this out, so hopefully the cream rises from this experiment. We certainly have some intriguing options.
     
    Wessoman repped this.
  7. ttrevett

    ttrevett Member+

    Apr 2, 2002
    Atlanta, GA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  8. Ghosting

    Ghosting Member+

    Aug 20, 2004
    Pendleton, OR
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You don't actually have to take it with a grain of salt. There is plenty of information in that article for you to judge the argument on its own merits. You can either say that you believe there is validity to his argument based on the facts that he cites, or you can reject it because you think the argument is poorly constructed, or leaves out pertinent facts. That's the nice thing about an analytic piece. You don't have to just take the guy's word for it.
     
    Shabs, Berks, StillKickin and 5 others repped this.
  9. USAsports6

    USAsports6 Member+

    FC Dallas
    United States
    Oct 17, 2014
    Club:
    Indy Eleven
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #34 USAsports6, Nov 19, 2014
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2014
    I would run this line-up:

    -------------Dempsey------------------------Altidore-----------
    ------------------------------Nguyen----------------------------
    ------------Johnson-------------------------Bradley------------
    ------------------------------Jones-------------------------------
    ----Garza-----------Brooks-----------Gonzalez------Yedlin----
    ------------------------------Guzan------------------------------

    Maybe move Jones back to CB if he can adapt well as he gets more time there.
     
  10. Qrom

    Qrom Member

    Oct 26, 2007
    east bay
    lol Wondo plays and has a impact and the team falls totally to pieces with him not on the field- "GET RID OF HEEEEEEEMMMMMMM!"
     
  11. MPNumber9

    MPNumber9 Member+

    Oct 10, 2010
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    On one hand, I could see that Jones ability to keep possession under pressure can be an asset when playing out of the back. The downside is placing him in the backline diminishes the composure of our midfield, where his abilities are more crucial, without replacing that presence with another player. Which midfield players are going to be able to withstand an aggressive press over the next cycle? I think Jurgen is baking on the more technically sound Euro-based players, which makes sense on paper.

    On paper.
     
  12. JEY Z2100

    JEY Z2100 Member

    Nov 4, 2014
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    What other LBs do we have besides Garza and FJohnson? Also I want to point out Jordan Morris. He actually did pretty good for the time he was on. Here's my lineup...

    ------------Altidore--Dempsey------

    ------Nguyen--Bradley--Gyau-----

    ---------------------Jones-----------------

    --FJ--Brooks--Gonzalez--Yedlin-

    --------------------Guzan----------------

    Let's try Jones as a number 6 and also have Zardes on the bench as a backup Striker. Also Mix needs to improve quite a bit. He shouldn't be a number 10.

    Question. Who can play the number 10 role besides Mix?
     
  13. Suyuntuy

    Suyuntuy Member+

    Jul 16, 2007
    Vancouver, Canada
    Nguyen, Bedoya, and possibly Rubin.
     
  14. Spursfan1

    Spursfan1 Member+

    Sep 7, 2010
    Atlanta
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    No this is wrong. His positioning and placement were outstanding. his communication with brooks was great.

    Colombia are no joke. He was often out of position BECAUSE of our midfield playing so poorly.
     
  15. TheNearPost

    TheNearPost Member+

    May 21, 2010
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nguyen is really the only classic #10 we have right now, and even he puts in more defensive work than you'd expect out of a 10.

    Bedoya is an interesting option in that role because he, like Bradley, cuts the figure of a modern number 10, where his benefit is more about his running and energy on both sides of the ball rather than his technical quality or creativity.

    Mix was never really a number 10, but has some undoubted skill, vision, control, and commitment. I can see him rounding out to be a great metronome, maybe even a Pirlo type player, but he's not an attacking catalyst.
     
  16. Ghosting

    Ghosting Member+

    Aug 20, 2004
    Pendleton, OR
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I clearly disagree with you... and I specifically mentioned the Honduras game as well. It's not really worth arguing about, because you can't prove your right, and I can't prove I'm right.
     
  17. TheNearPost

    TheNearPost Member+

    May 21, 2010
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Unless we had video access to the game and somebody isolated those moments you're pointing out where Jones started fires, or moments he's pointing out where Jones put them out.

    I mean, somebody COULD do that, but no ones going to, so yeah, probably best to move on.
     
  18. Elninho

    Elninho Member+

    Sacramento Republic FC
    United States
    Oct 30, 2000
    Sacramento, CA
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    How about a really important change? Klinsmann needs to STOP THE ENDLESS TWO-A-DAYS. How many times do we have to run out of gas in the second half, and how many hamstring injuries do our players have to suffer, before he gets the picture?
     
    Footsatt, Berks and bballshawn repped this.
  19. Suyuntuy

    Suyuntuy Member+

    Jul 16, 2007
    Vancouver, Canada
    Three-a-days, according to Besler.
     
  20. Martin Fischer

    Martin Fischer Member+

    Feb 23, 1999
    Kampala. Uganda
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    If you don't agree with something Matt wrote, you ought to man-up and point it out, rather than trying lamely to smear him with a bias claim.
     
  21. freroht

    freroht Member

    Jul 7, 2010
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Haiti
    Do we need a number 10? Most teams around the world do not play with a 10.
    By the Mix, Bedoya are not 10's.
     
  22. taylor

    taylor Member+

    Jun 9, 2000
    Fav team: FC CARL ZEISS JENA
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    rubin will be our exclusive #10 in one year.
    If any of you have not seen him play at Utrech I would really encourage you to watch a stream if you get a chance.
    edit: or jk incredulously positions him as our target forward....
     
  23. freroht

    freroht Member

    Jul 7, 2010
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Haiti
    My concern with Klinsmann is that he is not being accountable in the press, or by the fans. I remembered much more outrage when Bruce Arena was coaching, and definitely during Bob Bradley period. And that's when soccer was less popular.
    Because of this, Klinsmann does not need to produce results to keep his job. If we don't win the Gold Cup next year, or get eliminated first round of Copa America in 2016, I bet, people will blame the lack of talent, that MLS does not produce good talent, that players should be in Europe, etc. etc.
     
  24. freroht

    freroht Member

    Jul 7, 2010
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Haiti
    Never saw Rubin in Holland, but I am skeptical of placing average players as 10, or frankly using a traditional 10. If we play someone in a 10 position, the team offensively will depend on that guy, and I don't think we have anybody (elite player) like that. Teams with elite players do not play with 10s, they prefer make their guys play as 8 or 9.5
     
  25. taylor

    taylor Member+

    Jun 9, 2000
    Fav team: FC CARL ZEISS JENA
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    so it wouldnt hurt to watch him play before being understandbly skeptical of some dude with a 3liter beer as an avatar swearing him to be the New Hope.

    here is his next game:
    DUTCH EREDIVISIE
    NIEUW GALGEWAARD23RD NOVEMBER 2014 - KICK OFF 15:45

    [​IMG][​IMG]
    UTRECHT0


    CAMBUUR LEEUWAR0
    http://www1.skysports.com/football/live/match/312800
    thats 9:45 am est.

    give him a try. it will sedate the ld loss.
     
    Ghosting repped this.

Share This Page