You aren't wrong. It would change the sanctioning for the Canadian MLS clubs to the USSF. FIFA may not like cross border leagues, but it is not a clear cut rule. FIFA has allowed clubs with "traditional" ties to another country's leagues to remain in those leagues. In the case of the three Canadian MLS clubs, they've been playing in US leagues for decades (Vancouver for 4, Montreal for 3, and Toronto for 1), so it should be a slam dunk for them to argue their traditional tie is with MLS rather than CPL.
The more incentive to fully apply article 73 and have them relocate. Sanction is "a privilege not a right" and the CSA has blocked ownership from setup up in markets by threatening to not sanction them. No matter how much you want it - we aren't your "Wales" Nice try. Welsh clubs ~a century in England pyramid MLS Clubs since 2007 (TFC) and 2012 (Mtl) Hardly the same thing Besides, not even Miki Turner shared you're "slam dunk" enthusiasm and even raised in his article that what happened to the Fury set a precedent and raised questions about the 3 MLS teams Anyways, found clarification on the 3 clubs. They can qualify for CCL via the MLS Regular Season Trying again. I realize I'm getting into the weeds here on #CCL as it relates to Canadian teams, but here is the relevant quote from #Concacaf prez Victor Montagliani. pic.twitter.com/x7dIgkHLWV— Jeff Carlisle (@JeffreyCarlisle) February 4, 2021 And interview with Victor Montagliani
Depends what you mean. CCL is expanding from 16 clubs to 50. 20 of which will be in a North America "conference" that includes 20 clubs combined from US, Mexico, and Canada. There will also be a 20 club Central America "conference" and a 10 club Caribbean "conference". https://www.concacafchampionsleague...d-with-innovative-new-format-starting-2023-24 The group stages will be followed by a 16 club knockout round where 11 of the teams come from the North America conference, 4 from the Central America conference, and 1 from the Caribbean conference.
Given the history of soccer in the North America, it very much is the same thing. A team called the Vancouver Whitecaps have been playing in a US league since 1974 (1974-1984 in NASL, 1993-2011 in APSL/A-League/USL/NASL, 2011-current in MLS). Montreal Impact have been playing in US leagues continuously since 1993 (93-2011 in APSL/A-League/USL, 2012-current in MLS). Toronto is the only one that has only played in MLS and, even then, there was no league for them to join when they started playing in 2007... So, yes.. given the history of soccer in the US and Canada, they very much are comparable to Welsh teams. The Fury isn't comparable to the history of the MLS clubs. It's first game in a US league was in 2014, so it only started 5 years before CPL's first game and even then, it had changed leagues 1 year before CPL's first game and the difference between USL and CPL is negligible.
Interesting... Pretty sure that the "Single Entity" nature of MLS doesn't make your comparison to NASL and all those other US league comparable to Wales and English Football like Swansea. In a legal sense, Montreal & Vancouver MLS expansion team are entirely separate legal entities, despite keeping their old names. They had to be sanctioned to MLS and the clock started when they joined MLS - not decades ago. Well, until the 3 clubs have to reapply for sanction, they are safe Fury played in the US just 2 years after Montreal, yet CONCACAF yanked them out of the US pyramid. Lastly, level of play have little relevance in FIFA and parity is the exception, not the norm. It's commun for most tables to have clear front runners and see a drop towards the bottom table (Poor Sheffield lol). I mean the Ottawa Fury were a somewhat typical USL club in their last year - so your average USL club. They barely beat Halifax on 2 legs (dead last on aggregate table) but got destroyed by TFC "B team". On the other hand, Cavalry eliminated Vancouver's "A-Team" (No they didn't finish dead last in MLS in 2019) and along with York, pushed Montreal "A team" to their limit - same Montreal that beat TFC for the cup. You'll understand why I push back on the "negligible" but the gap isn't that wide - point conceded. I'll even add that USL could be a much stronger league but they have way too many teams and talent is easily being diluted.
I'd argue your post, but it's underpinnings are so laughable they aren't even worth arguing. If push comes to shove, I can guarantee you that Vancouver and Montreal's owners will absolutely include their teams' pre-MLS league play and given the multiple connections between the pre-MLS teams and the MLS teams, only a fool would argue they aren't connected.
We'll see when those clubs are up for sanction renewal . Ultimately, FIFA has last say and they have officially made their position clear on the matter.
I think as far as the fans are concerned they're connected and that's the most important thing. Technically the owners handed over intellectual property and player contracts to MLS the day they joined the league.
So from 2023 Canada could have 5 CCL entrants? Canadian Championship MLS Cup Leagues Cup Canadian Premier League x2 In fact if a CPL team wins the Canadian Championship there could be more. Technically, if Swansea or Cardiff join the Premier League they become shareholders. The single entity bit is a technicality. Wellington (NZ) play in a league that's based in a different federation and are not eligible to compete in the AFC CL or the OFC CL.
Presumably up to six. The slots you mention give five. I'm also assuming there will be MLS spots other than the Cup.
You have to like MediaPro's odds at getting the rights to the CCL as of 2023. Bell Media went on a round of "firing" yesterday affecting their soccer broadcast staff. With CPL having a guarantee minimum of 2 clubs in the competition, MediaPro will bid for this. Should they bag all the rights, this should drastically increase the number of subscribers to their platform while providing them with more content. Part of their business model is reselling some of the games/rights to other parties. Exclusive rights put pressure on Quebec's RDS and/or TVA Sports to buy games so CF Montreal's fans aren't shutout - same for TSN & Sportsnet for TFC and Vancouver. However this is a great opportunity for other broadcaster to get great content on their channels like CBC/SRC, CTV and others. Per @JeffreyCarlisle, this info has been shared by Victor Montagliani on a Zoom call with reporters.— Bob Williams (@WilliamsBob75) February 4, 2021 Another great point to address with this expansion is the positive effect on the league. This is a MASSIVE win for CPL which means : 1-Teams will host a minimum of 2 CCL games and participate in 4 of them against MLS and Liga MX in the fall's group stage 2-Extra ticket / Merchandise revenues as those stadiums should be quite full 3-Increase in sponsorship revenues with potential continental exposure 4-Solidifying and increasing the fanbase which should have a positive effect on average attendance 5-Media exposure - CPL will get much better coverage from mainstream media which in turn increases their ability to convert more fans and penetrate more markets. 6-TV viewership will go up on CBC and other partner channels along with MediaPro 7-Increase interest from Investors- This should attract more and better ownership groups who will see more value in acquiring a CPL club. 8-Expansion - Better investors, more capital into the league will help the league reach its targets for expansion making the launch of a D2 more likely with the pro/rel being planned 9-Attracting better talents - If you're a Canadian or International, CPL becomes that much more attractive 10-Increase in league spending and cap - Clubs and the league itself will want to replicate what they did in CONCACAF League. They will want to be competitive* against MLS and Liga MX and to achieve that, clubs will need the tools to do it. I could see the league being more flexible on the cap like not counting housing spending against it which could help attract better talent. Other things would be to allow "performance bonuses" too. CCL not being league games, clubs aren't forced to start 6 Canadians. By 2023, international recruitment will a key factor on their performance in CCL League's level in my opinion -Forge dictated the game against Tauro in Panama while doing well against El Salvador and Guatemala. For me, Tauro is a fair benchmark for where the league's level is. Cavalry and now Halifax are top tier clubs in CPL. I don't think mid table Panama would be that much better than Pacific or York United or Atletico. I don't think FC Edmonton or Valour would be that much worse than Panama's bottom team. I rate CPL around Panama's level - a key factor is the ability to get results in Central America I think CPL could clearly surpass Panama in the short term which gives CPL 2 years to achieve that -Despite Forge being capable of holding their ground against Honduras top clubs, Olimpia was clearly better while Motagua was around the same level but not much was missing from Forge to win. Honduras is stronger than Honduras but CPL is within reach in the medium term. I think that by 2026 (5 years from now), CPL will be around Honduras level Costa Rica are clearly the best league in Central America with Honduras as a close 2nd The long term plan of the league was always to become a top 3 league in CONCACAF. Surpassing Costa Rica is doable by end of decade.
Let's check with Ligue 1 after they took a big offer from MediaPro... https://www.ft.com/content/61326e1f-afde-4664-ba4c-939e0c00b3fb That's also not the first big contract they walked away from... The good news is that Ligue 1 were able to find a new broadcaster, but at 39% less than what they had last year. https://www.france24.com/en/sport/2...tball-league-signs-stopgap-tv-deal-with-canal
"According to the same sources, television income for top-flight clubs will drop by 49 percent this season. There will be a 40 percent dip in Ligue 2."
Dang it. I remembered it as 39% when I was typing it in, but 49% it is. But from what the article says, Canal offered 35 million Euros for the rest of the season on top of the 330 million they already had a contract for.
I'm very aware of MediaPro and the French League situation. We've discussed this with Romain Molina on our platform at Culture Soccer. He's an investigative reporter who wrote for The Guardian, CNN, BBC and NYT + writer. https://culturesoccer.com/2020/11/1...romain-molina-mediapro-et-le-soccer-canadien/ He explained what happened in France, how MediaPro functions and what it means for Canada. A few highlights since the interview was in French: Their deal with CSB is much lower and amortize over a longer period of time - Both situations aren't comparable according to him and he's not worried about the deal with CSB After explaining the business model of MediaPro which flopped in France, he points out its subsidiary MediaPro Canada has been successful in it's implementation. So, I don't know if they'll be able to expand elsewhere in CONCACAF and CONMEBOL, which Molina says is the long term goal as both markets have untapped potential. I can only speculate in regard to what MediaPro Canada has been doing thus far and after acquiring the exclusive Canadian rights to the Nations League and Gold Cup - it's logical and to assume they will do the same for the Champions League. France didn't stop CONCACAF from selling exclusive rights to them twice already
It's clear that if the Mediapro deal collapsed with the CPL, the league would cease to function. The television money cushion is the base of the pyramid for this league. I think Mediapro vastly overpaid. Having said that, the amount is tiny to what they paid for established leagues, so maybe they're ok with it. Once 2022 comes around, and fans can attend games in person, I believe that there will be guaranteed expansion (Quebec City it a minimum, and likely a 2nd team) and modest salary cap increase (not counting club provided housing against the cap) What surprises me is the level of some players the league has been able to sign with their tiny salaries (Costa Rican national teamer, former Ligue 1 player, former Premier league player) What this shows me is: Players really want to experience living in a country like Canada and some players believe it provides an opportunity to audition for MLS. Players are willing to take a discount for those opportunities. The feedback from players has been that the level of professionalism from clubs in the league has been fantastic. That prospective is quickly shared with players outside the league. I'd still love to see the salary cap raised to the point where players were getting a minimum $30,000 a year, but that is a ways off yet. Growing pains, just like MLS experienced, plus a 2 year pandemic thrown in.
Great observation. Molina also said in the interview we did with him that he felt that MediaPro overpaid for CPL. When we clarified that re rights included all Men's and Women's National Teams than he said it was a good deal. It's expensive at the beginning but towards the end of the deal, it's MediaPro who gets the benefits by paying the same rights while both CPL and National Teams rights will have increased in values and towards and post 2026 World Cup. Also, the league was prepared to launch without any TV rights in 2019 which was confirmed by Beirne himself. The ~5k-6k range to break even was without TV rights included. MediaPro provides that extra cushion which lowers the amount owners stands to lose. Let's not forget that Valour lost only ~210k in 2019 when everyone thought owners in CPL would be bleeding "MILLIONS". I think Forge turned a profit and Cavalry & Halifax at the very least broke even. Everyone lost money in 2020 though. Sould MediaPro deal somehow go under, the league would survive it by finding other broadcasters, granted would pay less. Correct, and the union should be closed to be ratified by every province leading to the league's 1st CBA which would forces wages and working conditions to go up. Just like MLS and USL, there's a disparity in salary. The cap may be low but that doesn't stop clubs to pay high salaries to some players while paying very small amounts to others - we just don't know at this point without a CBA. Also, every CPL clubs must take care of all internationals accommodations. Let's not forget that Canada is routinely a top 3 most liveable country in the world. CPL will be VERY attractive to CONCACAF players and South Americans as well who get to play football in a safe/stable environment in Canada. Some league's have don't even play their players on time or sometimes skip payments. The league is very aware of this when making their pitch to players. On top of that, CPL has demonstrated that the level's is respected enough to get the attention of leagues like Liga MX (signed Acuna from Atletico Ottawa), Belgium (Borges), Eredivisie (Estevez) and a bunch of Scandinavian leagues (loans or transfers). Championship were interested in Dominick Zator after all. This makes CPL very attractive to even young Mexicans like Alejandro Diaz who was formed by Club America but couldn't crack the 1st team. If he performs like Acuna and burn the league, just like Javier - Liga MX club could want to sign him. Better quality of players will come to CPL and the league has shown that they won't pay over market value for players. Lots of Canadians who play in USL and Europe aren't in CPL not because they don't want too - but they aren't worth what they are asking. Unlike MLS who used to pay a premium to get Americans home, CPL won't go down that route and would rather give promising young Canadians at home those opportunities instead - who are easier to resell if they develop. A player's union is needed to get there and that could happen in 2022 or 2023. Until then, rich people/owners will be like everyone else in sports business - get the most quality at the lowest costs as possible. The thing is that Canada's pool is mostly unknown and untapped. Guys like David and Davies came out of nowhere. From a fiscal sense, CPL's strategy makes a ton of sense - they can potentially get their hands on great talent at a very low costs and sell them. That's why the cap can be very misleading when making a direct correlation with quality.
CONCACAF keep doing business with MediaPro Canada MEDIAPRO Canada picks up SheBelieves Cup, CONCACAF Men’s Olympic Qualifiers https://t.co/qmtszMomde pic.twitter.com/xSbKJPq3mm— MEDIAPRO Canada (@mediaprocanada) February 8, 2021
Duane Rollins with a rather depressing article about player salaries in CPL and it really is bad... https://24thminute.substack.com/p/canpls-problem Considering the numbers being bandied about before the league launched, those numbers seems very low and, in many cases, is “love of the game” numbers. Not that USL is entirely better, but it isn’t competitive with the top USL teams and, as Rollins says, is going to create retention issues for CPL if salaries don’t increase in relatively short order.
It's good to have some hard(er) data but these numbers aren't surprising. It had already been leaked that the salary cap was reduced from $750 000 to $500 000. Some basic math meant we knew we were looking at an average of somewhere in the $20 000 range. Over the medium term (say within five years) the league is going to have to figure out how to get the average salary up to a livable level if it wants to be a truly pro league. I think, however, that they'll still get a bit of a free pass for another couple of years as young players are still just happy to give it a shot and older players are willing to invest a bit, as it were, to help the league get off the ground. After that, though, the money problem will need to be fixed quickly.
The salaries are indeed low according to what Rollins wrote although there are players making more if you refer to the like of Bustos (~$60k). I'm thinking that Bekker, De Jong aren't that far off - I'm just trying to understand what he means by "Star domestic players" which can be subjective. Data-wise, it was the like of Borges (now making 6 figures in Europe), Ongaro, Campbell, and other guys but most of them came from academies and semi-pro. Also important to point out that most of the league players in year 1 came from semi-pro (L10 & PLSQ) and academies. Salaries are low for sure but most would agree that they got paid market value when the league started. I think they mostly "outplayed" their contracts and exceeded expectations if not over-achieved, that's undeniable and for the performance they put out in the past 2 years, they deserve to be paid more. Luckily, most of them aren't shackled in long term contracts and clubs are willing to release players wanting to leave. That being said, the league got hit by COVID in year 2 and will spend most of year 3 without fans. The timing is terrible under these circumstances but it's unlikely & unrealistic that salaries will go up until things go back to normal. As for the union, there's a due process in place to get their votes ratified by every province's labour boards and it's ongoing. It's unfortunate that the league didn't outright recognized them but that's hardly surprising and the union will do what it must do to pressure the league in the public opinion realm and that's entirely fair. I think Rollins article is informative but lacks context and doesn't give the entire picture of the situation. He's been called out by Sissoko's agent for his claim that the player moved to USL Indy (I think) due to low salary. The agent said that Halifax actually made a good offer and the move was unrelated to money but the project the club was offering Sissoko and yet Rollins persisted that "he knew better" and salary was thew main reason... ok there! I'm expecting changes for 2022 when things go back to normal and their addition to CCL will only speed things up.
This is a really bad argument. Them coming from semi-pro/academies is not a valid reason for paying them, on average, $20k. Particularly when you consider that many of them are college educated The median salary in Canada for college educated males is around $70k-$80k. So, on average, the players with a college education could be making 3x-4x in the non-soccer world than they are playing soccer. Heck, $20k/year is less than what they would make in a minimum wage job in Canada. Another bad argument here. Particularly when you're talking about producing better Canadian players. At the salaries provided, you're looking at a high churn league and that's going to have a knock on effect on just how good the players are going to get before they leave the game/league. The owners knew they were going to lose millions getting this league up and running. The pandemic is obviously an outlier, but that doesn't excuse them for short changing the players in 2019 and continuing to do that for the foreseeable future. This is particularly true given that the Canadian government paid for a hefty chunk of the players' salaries in 2020... It's not "unfortunate" the league failed to recognize them. It's downright shameful. There is no reason why the league shouldn't recognize the union given that it is going to happen regardless. They are just dragging their feet to protect their owners at the expense of the players. It's not a lack of context to say that the league is underpaying their players when the league is, in fact, underpaying their players.. I get that you are a league apologist, but these salary numbers are deplorable and inexcusable. As mentioned above, the owners knew they were facing millions in losses before they joined the league and one of the ways that the league sold themselves to the public was how they were going to pay players a livable wave (I think it was $45k?). To have it revealed that they aren't even paying half that should be shocking..