Can terry cut it?

Discussion in 'England' started by RobbensLeftFoot, Nov 16, 2004.

  1. RobbensLeftFoot

    RobbensLeftFoot New Member

    Nov 16, 2004
    St.Helens
    Personally, although biased, i think John Terry must start for england alongside rio ferdinand. He's been the outstandin defender in the prem all year and is much more impressive than sol campbell, what does everybody think? terry or campbell slongside rio......
     
  2. Matt Clark

    Matt Clark Member

    Dec 19, 1999
    Liverpool
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
  3. Mel B

    Mel B Red Card

    Nov 10, 2004
    South Shields UK
    Club:
    Newcastle United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England


    My nana.
     
  4. Naughtius Maximus

    Jul 10, 2001
    Shropshire
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    At the beginning of the season I'd have said Rio and Sol together with JT as a good back up. Having watched all of them quite a bit I think it should be Terry and A.N.Other. The guy has been absolutely brilliant.

    I know he's often had Makalele in front of him but the truth is that he's been one of the main reasons why we've only conceded 5 goals in 19 games including playing ManU, PSG, Porto, CSKA Moscow, etc. whereas ManU with Rio have let in 19 goals in 22 and Arsenal, (although Sol hasn't been there for a while - I realise that), have let in 24 in 20.

    JT's is probably slower than Rio and Sol but, frankly, Rio has looked shaky this year... in particular his positional sense on corners and free-kicks has been distinctly 'iffy' AND he tends to overplay when he shouldn't. Sol's distribution has never been very good and he's just coming back from injury.

    It's a close call but, at the moment, I'd have to say Terry should play. Unfortunately I think Eriksson will do what Eriksson usually does - bottle it.
     
  5. Naughtius Maximus

    Jul 10, 2001
    Shropshire
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    RobbensLeftFoot

    Oh yeah - welcome to the boards and all that.
     
  6. When Hell Unfreezes

    Jan 8, 2004
    London
    Sol's 30 now and becoming more and more prone to niggling injuries - I think his days are numbered in the top flight at International level.

    JT is the future of English football and although I would have preferred to see him partnering Campbell, it's more likely he'll replace him permanantly, soon.

    Having said this, there is nothing wrong with perming any 2 from 4, if you include Ledley as a long-term prospect (or even 5 if you include the Spaz at RM).
     
  7. Danson's Magic Hands

    Danson's Magic Hands Big Soccer Deviant +

    Oct 22, 2004
    location location
    No matter how good Terry's form stretching back a couple of years now, you'd be asking for trouble breaking up the Campbell - Ferdinand partnership. It's one of England's best centre half partnerships in recent memory, and one of the best in the world at international level.

    In fact, over the last couple of years, it's been a huge shame that they haven't played together more. Since the World Cup QF, they have played only three matches together for England - against Turkey in Sunderland, and the last two WC qualifiers against Wales and Azerbaijan. In those three matches, we looked extrememly comfortable at the back, and conceded no goals.

    Meanwhile, with various combinations of Terrys, Woodgates, Southgates, Upsons and Kings playing over the last two years, with either of Campbell or Ferdinand, we haven't looked bad at the back, but we haven't looked great either. I fail to see a single reason why playing Terry over Ferdinand, or over Campbell would do anything other than make us weaker.
     
  8. Mobile

    Mobile New Member

    Jul 29, 2002
    Melbourne
    Got to be Rio & Sol I think - Campbell is simply imperious in an England shirt and Ferdinand seems to have improved during his lengthy ban to the point where he is one of Man Utd's most vital players.

    John Terry is an outstanding defender and a probable future England captain but I think he remains behind Rio & Sol in the pecking order for now. He didn't entirely convince me during Euro 2004.

    Ledley King can feel even more aggrieved at losing his place IMO, he hasn't put a foot wrong for the national side.
     
  9. Naughtius Maximus

    Jul 10, 2001
    Shropshire
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Hate to disagree Mobile, old man, but I honestly think he's got worse since his ban. I watched him in the CL match against... Lyon(?) and he seemed to be unsure of where he should be quite a few times. I'd have to see the match again to give details - it was more of an impression - but he definitely looked out of sorts to me.

    To be honest I would also have to say, (indeed, did say), Rio before the ban but now I think the situation has changed. Not definitively, but enough to make a clear decision with Terry's improved performance.
     
  10. Motterman

    Motterman Member

    Jul 8, 2002
    Orlando, FL
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    United had the best defensive record in the league before Rio's suspension last season, and this season, since he's been back, United have conceded only 5 goals in 8 league matches or 8 goals from 13 matches in all competitions...

    But overall club form isn't that relevant. There's not much between Rio, Sol and Terry - I just prefer Sol and Rio together as first choice.
     
  11. sinner78

    sinner78 BigSoccer Supporter

    Nov 7, 2001
    Rio is the best technical defender as well .He is a good passer of the ball and pretty good at getting forward to support the midfield .We really missed him at Euro 2004.
     
  12. sendorange

    sendorange Member+

    Jun 7, 2003
    Bigsoccer.com
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    That's right. No way can Sven drop him, he adds a good deal to our possession and passing by being able to bring it out of the back so effortlessly.

    Campbell has always been practically flawless in big games, he was immense in Euro 2004. Although in the smaller qualifying games he can sometimes be very slack, but then a lot of players are.
     
  13. Naughtius Maximus

    Jul 10, 2001
    Shropshire
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Er, don't think so mate.

    From http://stats.football365.com/dom/ENG/teams/ManchesterUtd.html

    League

    Overall Record 13 5 6 2 14 10 4 1.07 0.76 1.61 21 7

    Plus League Cup

    3 26-Oct-04 A Crewe Alexandra W 3-0 (1-0)
    4 10-Nov-04 H Crystal Palace W 2-0 (2-0)

    Plus community shield

    F 08-Aug-04 N Arsenal L 1-3 (0-0)

    Plus champions league

    Q3 L1 11-Aug-04 A Dinamo Bucharest W 2-1 (1-1)
    Q3 L2 25-Aug-04 H Dinamo Bucharest W 3-0 (0-0)
    1 Gp D 15-Sep-04 A Lyon D 2-2 (0-2)
    1 Gp D 28-Sep-04 H Fenerbahce W 6-2 (3-0)
    1 Gp D 19-Oct-04 A Sparta Prague D 0-0 (0-0)
    1 Gp D 03-Nov-04 H Sparta Prague W 4-1 (2-0)

    Total 19 goals scored again ManU in 22 games.

    I accept that club form is only part of the answer though.
     
  14. Mobile

    Mobile New Member

    Jul 29, 2002
    Melbourne
    Fair enough. I also think it's more or less too close to call but have been hugely impressed with Rio since his return.

    Anyway, in the words of many a half-wit pundit, "It's a nice problem to have."
     
  15. Naughtius Maximus

    Jul 10, 2001
    Shropshire
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    No argument there. Actually, I think that all 3 of them could pretty much walk into any international side in the world.
     
  16. Motterman

    Motterman Member

    Jul 8, 2002
    Orlando, FL
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Rio was not back in our lineup until the Liverpool match, Andy.

    Mon Sep 20 Barclaycard FA Premiership Manchester United 2 - 1 Liverpool 20:00 at Old Trafford

    Sat Sep 25 Barclaycard FA Premiership Tottenham 0 - 1 Manchester United 15:00 at White Hart Lane

    Tue Sep 28 UEFA Champions League Manchester United 6 - 2 Fenerbahçe 19:45 at Old Trafford

    Sun Oct 3 Barclaycard FA Premiership Manchester United 1 - 1 Middlesbrough 15:00 at Old Trafford

    Sat Oct 16 Barclaycard FA Premiership Birmingham City 0 - 0 Manchester United 12:45 at St. Andrews

    Tue Oct 19 UEFA Champions League Sparta Praha 0 - 0 Manchester United 19:45 at Toyota Arena

    Sun Oct 24 Barclaycard FA Premiership Manchester United 2 - 0 Arsenal 16:05 at Old Trafford

    Tue Oct 26 Carling Cup Crewe 0 - 3 Manchester United 19:45 at The Alexandra Stadium

    Sat Oct 30 Barclaycard FA Premiership Portsmouth 2 - 0 Manchester United 15:00 at Fratton Park

    Wed Nov 3 UEFA Champions League Manchester United 4 - 1 Sparta Praha 19:45 at Old Trafford

    Sun Nov 7 Barclaycard FA Premiership Manchester United 0 - 0 Manchester City 16:05 at Old Trafford

    Wed Nov 10 Carling Cup Manchester United 2 - 0 Crystal Palace 20:00 at Old Trafford

    Sun Nov 14 Barclaycard FA Premiership Newcastle United 1 - 3 Manchester United 16:05 at St. James' Park
     
  17. Prawn Sandwich

    Oct 1, 2003
    Bhutan
    Just a small point Andy but Rio was still suspended for a number of those games you highlight.....
     
  18. sendorange

    sendorange Member+

    Jun 7, 2003
    Bigsoccer.com
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    That's true mate. Shouldn't have dropped him after the France game, although I think Sven has been very good to King apart from that, bringing him on as sub in a fair few games now to do a solid job.
     
  19. Naughtius Maximus

    Jul 10, 2001
    Shropshire
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Ah, yes... forgot that.

    I think the point about Chelsea's defence still stands though. JT has been a vital part in it with other players coming in such as Carvallho and Gallas and with Makalele in front or, a coupe, of times, Scott Parker. The one constant has been Terry.

    It's not just a statistical thing, though, it's the way it always seems to be JT that launches himself in front of the ball when a shots coming in or who gives people a bollocking when they're not doing the right thing.
     
  20. mshankb

    mshankb Member

    Nov 15, 2004
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    5 in 8? JT's given up 4 in 13....

    I think people are in a habit of saying "Oh obviously it's Campbell/Ferdinand" because for such a long ime it was!
     
  21. lobomojo

    lobomojo Member+

    Chelsea, Gillingham
    Jul 17, 2004
    Freedom
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Before I wanted Terry among 3-4 world class out of Chelsea bias, but the post ban rio has not been on the same level. Against Arse he got lucky on the no call, then had another lucky escape the next match and really is not playing at Terry's, Sol's or his old level.

    Terry saved two off the line in his last two before Rio came back, is better at heading and protecting headers. Next doubters watch a Chelsea match take special note how often you see and here "Terry with the block, Terry with the header, Terry clears, stopped by Terry...etc." The last few matches his distribution, especially long has been brilliant.

    So for now I say Terry and Campbell, until/unless Rio shows/proves his form is better than one of the two.
     
  22. sendorange

    sendorange Member+

    Jun 7, 2003
    Bigsoccer.com
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Terry and Campbell have already been played together and they didn't look as good as Campbell and Ferdinand. Ferdinand will be back to full sharpness before long and his superior pace and technical ability gives him the edge over Terry.
     
  23. mshankb

    mshankb Member

    Nov 15, 2004
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Terry and Neville were England's best players tonight. Maybe Smith, too.
     
  24. Matt Clark

    Matt Clark Member

    Dec 19, 1999
    Liverpool
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    What?!?!? Neville was an artless hack throughout (he clearly - and childishly - decided to prove Reyes' pre-match words all too true) and Terry was a complete disaster. The debate about whether or not Terry should be in has been up and about for the past few days, well now we have got all the documented proof we need when we say that whatever his exploits for Chelsea he has done NOTHING to deserve a starting spot for England.

    Watch their goal again. Then play "Spot the Terry".

    He was rubbish.
     
  25. sendorange

    sendorange Member+

    Jun 7, 2003
    Bigsoccer.com
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Wouldn't say he was rubbish chief, but he is not on the same level as Campbell, or as naturally talented in terms of pace and control of the ball as Ledley King.

    Neville didn't do too badly at times, other times he seemed lax and more keen on making hard tackles than playing.
     

Share This Page