I am posting this thread here because I think this is where the Greatest.Thread.Ever. was posted originally. Hypothetical situation: A team's record is 12-8. Are they four games above .500 or two? Most sportscasters say 4. I have to disagree. I say two games, In a twenty game season .500 is 10-10. If you won 12 games, then you only won two more games than you needed to make .500. You cannot take from the loss column without adding to the wins and vice versa. Please discuss.
well, you clicked one too many times, Greatest.Thread.Ever. was posted in Major League Soccer (notice: no the) I see where you are coming from and frankly, I'm torn. I had never thought about this before ... this is going to take some time...
Well, you could look at it as the team would have to lose 4 more games to fall to .500. In your example, that the team has actually completed the season, I guess you have a point. But when talking about a team that is mid-season, I understand the rationale behind a 12-8 team being 4 games above .500, since they have at least 4 games before they could concievable be at .500. So put that in your math pipe and smoke it.
your comparison of 12-8 versus 10-10 is too simple. you must throw in the ties or "draws" column to really get the math discussion going.
I agree if the season is still goign on, but my example was based on a sportswriter talking about a teams record after the season was over. He said they were 17 games above .500 and I was thinking they were actuall 8.5 games above .500 I did smoke that and it is some good ********. BAM!
I'm picking up what you're putting down, but if we say that a 12-8 team, in mid-season and with more then 4 games to play, is considered 4 games above .500, based on my earlier explanation, then wouldn't it be silly to, all of a sudden, change the formula the day after the season is over? Kind of confusin', ain't it?? Boy, Man, G-d, $hit (as long as we are doing YEM refrences at the bottom of our posts)
Actually, now that I think of it, the formula is a constant. It doesn't matter where the team is in realtion to the season. A team at 12-8 is still only two games above .500 even if they have 40 more games to play. You cannot figure future games (unknowns) into it. You can only go by what actually exists. They are only two games up because, if they had lost 2 of the games they won, they would be at .500. I do enjoy your enjoyment of my YEM reference. You are only the second person to mention it so far. Great fvcking song! that tune is was the catalyst behind my reverance for those guys.
being that a draw is not a win or a loss, 12-8-5 is still 2 games above .500. the logic being that if a team tied every game of the season, they would be at .500.
Since a teams record is a 'fact', and 'ifs' cannot be considered, a 12-8 team is 4 games above .500. Lee
QUite right, if 12-8 a team is 4 games over .500 as that is all they have played, the percentage of wins is reported in the standings section of the paper as well
but if .500 represents 10 wins, then they are only two games above it. 12 wins is .600 10 wins is .500 12-8 is two games above .500 being that each game would represent +-.100 depending on a win or a loss.
I'll bet you Sepp Blatter will come upon this thread shortly and, since he's all about making weird declarations like the one in favor of overtime, he'll propose that the world ditches the points table and go with baseball perentages like we're discussing here.
You said "if". Either we are dealing in facts or we are dealing in hypotheticals, you decide. The fact is 12-8 is 4 games above .500. Lee
While you're having a kind of silly discussion about what it means to be a .500 ball club why doesn't someone try explaining to me how MLS calculates 'winning percentage' in its stats, or maybe the most accurate way to calculate winning percentage in soccer. I've argued that it should be points/points possiable. But that's just me.
If a team is 12-8, it must lose 4 games to return to .500. It is therefore 4 games over .500. However, if a team is 12-8, and the second place team is 10-10, the 12-8 team is 2 games ahead of the second place team (which is at .500). This is becuase two weeks of the 12-8 team losing combined with the 10-10 team winning will even the records. If that doesn't blow your mind, nothing will.
Wrong. The fact is that in a twenty game season, ten wins is .500. So another fact is that 12 gaames is only two more than ten, making a 12-8 record two games above .500
I have to disagree and I am sure I will catch hell from LeeS for usng the next word. "if" you take two wins away from a team at 12-8, you have to transfer those to the loss column making the record 10-10 (.500).
Wrong. If the statement is "12-8 is 2 games above .500" then what, exactly does the "2" mean? If the team plays 2 more games (and thats all they can do once the have played 20 games overall) they will be either 12-10, 13-9 or 14-8. Impossible to be .500 in only "2" games. A 12-8 team is 2 games better than a 10-10 team (meaning that if the teams each play 2 more games they COULD be tied). Lee
This has the potential to be the new greatest thread ever. If it is so dumb, why are you bothering to respond? As for the ties, that adds a whole new dimension to the discussion. If .500 represents winning half of your games, then 12-8-5 would be .480. 12.5 games would represent .500, so they are 1/2 game away from .500. Now waiting for LeeS to give me grief for using the word "if"
My point is that changing the outcome of 2 games minimum would put them at .500. So, they are two games beter than .500. Isn't this fun?
I don't know how the MLS calculates winning percentage, I wasn't aware that they did. Anyway, due to the 3 points= win, 1 point= draw, its impossible, mathematically, to infer winning percentage by a simple points/points possable equation. Mathematically a draw is 50/50 win/loss, but in the MLS (as well as most other leagues) only .3333333inf is awarded for a draw. to get winning percentage (in a mathematical sense) for MLS teams, award 2 points for a win, 1 point for a draw and divide by number of games play times 2. Lee
First of all, this IS fun... But I have to say, again, that by changing the outcome of 2 games is dealing with hypotheticals. An outcome is an outcome. Lee