my pick: 1.) Brazil 2.) Argentina 3.) Mexico 4.) Colombia 5.) Chile and MLS 7.) Uruguay, Ecuador and Paraguay 10.) Venezuela, Costa Rica
How about best supporters in the Americas? Here's my pick. Argentina Brazil Chile Uruguay/Paraguay Mexico Colombia Ecuador/Bolivia Honduras Guate/Costa Rica/MLS/EL Salva
There's no way you can put the Brazilian league as best of the Americas. Why: No parity whatsoever, 2-3 decent stadiums, most of them tiny deathtraps, least amount of 'stars' stick around to play domestically, classic underachieving in International Tournaments. I'm not trying to bash the league, but it doesn't have the best competition, stadia, players, or fans. It can't be number 1.
Define "decent stadium" we don't have much good stadia but i don't know other america's country better than us. You don't know wath you talk about, brazil don't play good internationally? its a joke!!! we have 8 teams that win libertadores, any other country reach us in that case, and botafogo and corinthians was semifinalists, são caetano and atlético-pr was runners up. because we had 12 great team and normally 2-5 strong medium teams its means we dissolve our best players, in opositon of other leagues that 3-4 team always have the best players. We don't have best fans? only 25 of the top 30 crowds in socer history are in brazilian club games!!! In some final we move more than 30k people to see away games!! and the two last libertadores final are between brazilian teams!! greetings.
* I know some people wouldn't agree with me, but I stand behind my reasoning. Brasilian club teams obviously have had and do have success in international competitions, my point was that they haven't had the most. That would have to go to Argentine club teams. Like it or not, it's a fact. In addition, I didn't say there were no good stadiums in Brasil, but overall, looking at it in a league by league comparison; there are many leauges with better overall facilities. I'm not just talking about the size of the stadium; I'm talking about size, safety, modernity, and security. Using that definition, the MLS has better facilities than the Brasil league. You say 25 of the biggest crowds in 'soccer history' were in Brazilian club games. I'd like to see your source. Yes, while Brasil admittedly has a few enormous stadiums, the average capacity of all the leagues stadia is lower than several other 'American' leagues. The Brasil league doesn't attract as many foreigners from other parts of the Americas, because the average salary is far lower than both the Argentine and Mexican leagues. Like I said, I'm not Brasil bashing, but to simply say it's the best league in the Americas ignores all of these facts. Mexico is a candidate due to it's economic health and infrastructure alone, Argentina could be considered due to the greater amount of talent in the league. The US league is already above and Central american league on organization alone, and if it continues to expand into Soccer specific stadiums, improves the level of play, and continues to attract investment it will shoot up the list of best leagues in this hemisphere. Greetings.
I completely agree with your statements about the Brasilian League. However, the Brasilian futbol establishment is one of the best at producing home grown "Star" players for the international market, something I believe the MLS is still lacking.
*Right. Please don't misunderstand me, I love the Brasil league. Just imagine how much better it would be if all of Brasil's stars stayed longer or at all IN Brasil. Due to the aforementioned facts they don't.
Would attracting star players such as Beckham or Ronaldo increase the MLS' ranking? I tend to think that it would lower it do to the inevitable perception from Europeans that the MLS would be the dumping ground for old, past their prime players for European futbol clubs.
argentine teams do nothing in libertadores excption boca and velez in the last years, and only 7 argentine teams win libertadores. MLS has better stadia facilities, and only that. well i saw that in the tv, then i'm don't have the source from tv, but with a fast search: Only fluminense games: 1) FLUMINENSE 0X0 FLAMENGO, 194.603, C. CARIOCA, 15/12/1963, MARACANÃ (177.656 PAGANTES). 2) FLUMINENSE 3X2 FLAMENGO, 171.599, C. CARIOCA, 15/06/1969, MARACANÃ. 3) FLUMINENSE 0X0 FLAMENGO, 155.116, C. CARIOCA, 16/05/1976, MARACANÃ. 4) FLUMINENSE 1X0 FLAMENGO, 153.520, C. CARIOCA, 16/12/1984, MARACANÃ. 5) FLUMINENSE 1X1 CORINTHIANS, 146.043, BRASILEIRO, 05/12/1976, MARACANÃ. 6) FLUMINENSE 1X0 BOTAFOGO, 142.339, C. CARIOCA, 27/06/1971, MARACANÃ. 7) FLUMINENSE 2X0 AMÉRICA, 141.689, C. CARIOCA, 09/06/1968, MARACANÃ 8) FLUMINENSE 2X0 FLAMENGO, 138.599, C. CARIOCA, 02/08/1970, MARACANÃ. 9) FLUMINENSE 1X1 FLAMENGO, 138.557, C. CARIOCA, 22/04/1979, MARACANÃ. 10) FLUMINENSE 2X5 FLAMENGO, 137.002, C. CARIOCA, 23/04/1972, MARACANÃ. 11) FLUMINENSE 1X2 FLAMENGO, 136.829, C. CARIOCA, 07/09/1972, MARACANÃ. 12) FLUMINENSE 3X3 FLAMENGO, 136.606, C. CARIOCA, 18/10/1964, MARACANÃ. 13) FLUMINENSE 2X0 BONSUCESSO, 131.256, C. CARIOCA, 08/06/1969, MARACANÃ. other stadium mineirão: 132.834 (22/06/1997 - Cruzeiro 1 x 0 Vila Nova/MG) Morumbi: Corinthians x Ponte Preta 138.032 , 1977. I don't know others crowds bigger than that, in exception the one brazil x paraguay and the final of 1950 world cup. [/quote]The Brasil league doesn't attract as many foreigners from other parts of the Americas, because the average salary is far lower than both the Argentine and Mexican leagues. [/quote] its not true, the real is much more valuated than argentine peso, but the real factor to brazilians don't bring foreigners because they are worst than our 2nd class players or leveled with him. but almost all teams have foreigners now, fom angola, servia, colômbia, chile, argentina, paraguay.... I got your point, and agree in some points, its really that brazilian league have problems, but is really too the others south american leagues have the same problems in equal o worst levels, except for 1 or 2 teams. For example banfield or lanus have much worst infrastructure and tv deals than botafogo, atlético-mg for example. The SP state championship have R$60 millions of tv deals, this is more than 80% of tv deals of american championships (i think only mexico and argentina is more than that, maybe MLS) and we are talking about an state championship. almost all brazilian teams have projects to reformulate and rebuild stadiums, in rio next year we will have 2 stadium in fifa standard, atlético-pr stadium will be finished too. figueirense, inter and grêmio announced new stadium. mineirão (cruzeiro and atlético-mg stadium) and morumbi (são paulo staduim) and recife stadiums (ilha do retiro of sport) are being improved. then we are investing in infrastructure, our tv deals grows up every year, the top player of our league gain R$500k per month (200k euros), thats is an impracticable salary for any oher team outside brazil. the failure in libertadores in 70's, 80's of most teams create an ilusion of bad soccer clubs from brazil, but great part of these "bad luck" is decorrent our great players are in 12-15 teams, historically. but, at all, i respect your points greetings.
they will find ways to jam more effective advertising in there somehow. Or they will plop in quickie commercials during dead-ball situations. (they already do that in Italy) if they are really desperate for more ad revenue. I wouldn't be too shocked to see "live-read" radio style ads being implemented at some point if more ads where "requested" by the networks.
Can MLS be one of the top leagues in the world in 10-15 years? It could be if the coporate big wig companies put forth and invest big money for not just an NASL 1-5 years but for the long haul like Uncle Phil & Lamar Hunt are doing for a period of many many years. I saw an interview on tv about the lack of quality little leaguers in baseball and/or lack of interest the kids have in that sport. If that is true, eventually the baseball generations could turn into future soccer fans/players. Its been talked about for 30 years. Who knows? Maybe?
Can MLS be one of the top leagues in the world in 10-15 years? Yes. If it keeps improving at the rate that it is, yes. *The stadiums are only going to get better. Are they the biggest in the Americas? No. But they're modern, nice, and safe. Maracana and Minerao have had huge crowds, but that was back when they were all bench seating stadiums. We're talking brand new stadiums with good facilities. MLS is already on par with any other country in this hemisphere with regards to stadia, and it will only improve. *Sponsorship will continue to increase. The money will keep coming into this league. Like it or not, Umbro, Puma, Adidas and Nike would rather sponsor teams in the US over any other country in the Americas. Why is that? Simple, the American dollar and the 300,000,000 + people that can spend it. *Bring in money, you bring in results. It's a sad fact of life. More foreign players will come to the US, and more and more home grown talent will be developed. The league could gain access to Libertadores or some sort of Champion League-esque tournament and compete with any central or south American sides.
You'd be surprised how people aren't prepared to admit that the immediate future of soccer is still tied to a relatively small group of pretty rich people rather than substantive involvement from the masses. It's evolved from a league floated mostly on the largesse of 3 billionaires, to one that's looking at capturing a few more billionaires and a couple thousand millionaires (and I mean in the form of sponsors, luxury suite holders, etc). But I seriously think that MLS could get to the 8th or so biggest league on turnover with only marginally more involvement from "Joe Sixpack" than is the case today. MLS could be a niche sport and still be a relatively rich league.
I think yes in 15 years time. It's all about money. The talent goes to where the money is. MLS teams with their salary caps cannot afford high wages and pay a mere fraction of the wages on offer in Europe's big 3 leagues. If MLS grows its income then it can raise its wages either by scrapping its salary cap or raising it considerably. Now income is grown by 3 main sources. TV revenue. Gate Recipts and Merchandise. All of these things will grow as a natural consequence of the number and dedication of MLS supporters growing. America is a very big country and MLS has only a very small number of teams. A consequence of this is that most people who support an MLS team will have large distances to travel to watch their team. Away support will thus be very small. However fans of an MLS team can support their club by buying official merchandise and watching it on TV. This spending power and viewing numbers will grow as MLS supporters grow in numbers. TV companies will have to listen if there are sufficient numbers who want to watch a game of MLS. OK there may not be as many ad breaks during a football match as in a grid-iron match but you also get the pitchside adds, plus sponsors whose logos could be on the screen for the whole 90 minutes. There are ways to advertise during football matches without interrupting the game - have sponsored motm o rmvp awards etc. Plus before and after the games you will have previews and reviews all with ad breaks. So a 90 minute football match is not something US TV companies should fear. If the ratings are there then what price the half time ads? I've slightly digressed but it's all about money for wages to competitively attract the players to play in MLS. As the fans base grows in numbers and spending money so will MLS wages grow and MLS will grow more competitive in a global market. MLS will probably never be top 3 but it could be top 10 in 15 years or so. It all depends on wages.
We are starting to see signs in the media and progress is getting better but is still light years away. I also think the media have a big say in the progress of the sport. How can a nation like a sport when its front TV/RADIO analysts keep denouncing or not talking about the sport? I think the old time sports reporters and sports talk show hosts still look down upon soccer. They weren't traised with it so they can not talk about a sport they know nothiung about. All they do is ridcule it or talk about Zidane's header on Materazzi. The younger generation is getting more involved and becoming enthusiastic about the game. 85 year old ABC analyst Jim McKay & maybe Verne Lunquist are probably the only old guards I ever really remember watching or caring about the sport. When you see knowledgeable younger types like Allen Hopkins , Rob Stone and JP Della Camera showing off their knowledge of the sport, there is more like them to come. Even the former players are doing pretty well. Bruce Arena still leaves something to be desired on TV but as opposed to his character as a player or as a person, for that matter I must say Eric Wynalda made things lively. John Harkes was ok and pretty smart also this summer. I just got sick and tired of him trying to sound too English and saying the phrase "as well" over 50 times in a half.
Compared to other sports in the US, soccer is pretty easy to follow. I mean at its core soccer is just one team of players trying to get the ball in the opposing teams' net, the formations and positions created while important, are not really spelled out in a rulebook(I mean if you wanted to you could have all your players positioni in the midfield), so a new viewer of soccer does not really have to learn and memorize the specific position assign to each player(unlike football and baseball). It is this simplicity that pretty much deters TV/Radio people here in the US. Unlike football and baseball, the simple nature of soccer(as a game) prevents a single game of MLS to be overanalysed for hours on end by the TV/Radio Talking heads.
On revenues, I'd have to think the biggest. We're not as far behind as you might think. Their (Brazil and Argentina) advantage is an immense supply of cheap but talented domestics. So they get lots of transfers out, and don't have to pay for many in. We won't be in that situation unless our pool gets a lot better and a lot deeper than today. (Which could happen, as it's getting better and deeper all the time. But it'll take longer than a decade to be anything like they've got.)
NASCAR pulled it off. The media's not irrelevant, but it's not as important as people think. It's a trend follower. You already can't get away with trashing the World Cup, because the World Cup has proven it's got a real audience here. This for a WC that was thought so little of by mainstream media that no network bothered to buy the rights, so the SUM investors (basically MLS) had to do it instead. That World Cup drew 17 Million viewers to the Final. The marketplace leads, the media follows. Conversely, the media liked the NHL a lot, much moreso than the marketplace, and it didn't do them a lot of long-term good. They got high-dollar contracts for a while, but it all crashed, which was part of the reason for the painful lockout and some lingering attendance problems afterward.
I don't think it matters whether the MLS becomes a "top league" in the world, when our media all but ignores the existence of this league and our sport. Even if the US were to win the World Cup and If our clubs grew to dominate all the regional competitions, it wouldn't really matter because it wouldn't turn anyones head in the sports media meaning that the sport would never really grow here. Without media support we could have the greatest league in the world and still have only 25,000 spectators at the cup final
Yeah but the media is a reflection of society and US society has currently more interest in other sports rather than MLS soccer. MLS and its fanbase is undoubtably growing though and there will come a time when the media cannot afford not to show the games and report on them in depth. The TV in the US is primarily focussed on ratings and if there exists a large enough demographic of viewers then TV will have no choice but to cater for this market.
this are the most biased predictions ive seen!!! Colombia, chile, paraguay are all superior to MLS. This are how my rankings in the americas would be...... 1. Brazil 2. Argentina 3. Mexico 4. Chile 5. Colombia 6. Paraguay 7. Uruguay 8. Ecuador 9. MLS 10. Costa Rica