That is BS. We were in our best form last season while we were still in Europe. Our form dropped off a bit after we were eliminated from the EL. We discussed this all at length last season.
Ahh.. the myths against olympiakos again.. I am proud some Germans attempt to create myths as much as the ancient Greeks! Makes me believe in that bull carp 'indo europeanism' the english invented so save historical and cultural face! We lost 0-1 to Marseille at home. It was our first competitive game (League/CL/or Cup) in 5 months due to all games being cancelled in Greece because of the match fixing crisis. Even though on that day we were wet behind the ears, we deserved a point. We easily beat Marseille in the Velodrome, if they had had any other keeper the score would have been higher to us. He pulled out some spectacular saves, that is why he is their captain. Either way it doesn't matter - we scored more goals than any other team in the group and had the second best defense. On an average game we were missing around 5-6 starters. Last night we were without Makoun/Ibagaza/Fejsa/Yeste. Arsenal babies? They started their strongest defence possible, lets have a look at their babies's ages they used against us: 21 Fabianski 26 05 Vermaelen 26 11 Santos 28 18 Squillaci 31 20 Djourou 24 15 Oxlade-Chamberlain 18 23 Arshavin 30 26 Frimpong 19 30 Benayoun 31 39 Coquelin 20 29 Chamakh 27 Finally, I will quote for the last time, some results from last decade in European competition: 2002–03 Olympiacos 6 Bayer Leverkusen 2 2007–08 Olympiacos 3 Werder Bremen 0 2007–08 Werder Bremen 1 Olympiacos 3 2008–09 Olympiacos 4 Hertha Berlin 0 2011-12 Olympiacos 3 Borussia Dortmund 1
That was far from our strongest defense possible. Squillaci and Fabianski are a running joke we would never willingly play in a real game, and Djourou has been working his way towards the bottom of the pile over the last year.
The thing is Arsenal is a selling club and there are around 15 good players right now but the others are nowhere near good enough. Arsenal made 9 changes for this game. Mertesacker,Koscielny,Vermaelen are the strongest Cbs and Sagna at right back.Djourou is never a right back. If we played with this starting eleven in the Premier League, we would be lucky to not get relegated. Forget about top 10 or the Champions League. Arshavin is absolutely hopeless.He doesnt bother anymore. No effort at all. For a year now, he cant even make simple 5 yard passes. I dont know how Chamakh can call himself a striker. He cant score a goal to save his life. Absolutely useless. And dont even talk to me about Djourou and Squillaci. It seems like they've never played football in their lives. Flappiandski and Mannone are disasters waiting to happen. Olympiakos have played extremely well in all the Champions League matches but the other three teams in this group for different reasons are not very good this season.Arsenal sold 3 of their best players in the summer and wilshere is out injured and sagna too.Dortmund were poor because of tactical naivety and awful finishing(shooting abilities). I dont really follow Marseille but they've been very poor in the French League.
Goetze had a bad game, him being subbed off had nothing to do with the final outcome. We agree on this. Klopp's ready-made excuse will be they needed to win 4-0, so they had to attack all out.
I don't think it was an excuse. EVERYBODY knew that they had to come out the gates running. If it didn't work then they gave it their all. As far as the G/L sub, I think that was Klopp conceding at that point. Valiant effort, no Schadenfreude here.
No suprise Arsenal conceeded 3 in Greece. Without Mertesacker in the starting 11 that team sucks. This CL group stage prooved once more Mertesacker >> Hummels for the Euro.
Yes, but our form dipped before Kagawa's injury. Remember, Kagawa was injured during the winter break at the Asian Cup. Kagawa's injury had nothing to do with our dip in form. The dip occurred before Kagawa ever got hurt. It occurred after we crashed out of Europe. And when I say "dip in form", I don't mean we started losing. Although we did suffer that loss in Frankfurt. European matches can also help keep a team sharp for their league matches...... It all depends on how one wishes to look at them. It isn't all a matter of disagreeing with you overall. It is a matter of what you said about last season being dead wrong. But, I know many people love that "not having to worry about Europe" crutch/excuse,. However, I really don't buy it. I never have and I never will..... I just believe the "not having to worry about Europe" thing is just a bullshit crutch and a bullshit excuse respectively for those who: a) Fail in Europe b) Fail to stay ahead of those who crash out of Europe. Truly great teams can do it.
while we might have things to be upset about, glad it isn't like the huge conspiracy theories flying around the result that had Lyon leapfrogging Ajax. Mafia, poor refs, it has hollywood movie all over it.
Staying in Europe would have been perfect for guys like Gundogan, Leitner, Perisic and Santana by forcing Klopp to rotate a bit more than he does. As is, he can simply mail in his line-up for the rest of the season, barring injury. IMO, he does not integrate enough to involve the fringe players and up-and-comers. I agree with footy that there is no benefit to crashing out now. And that is without considering the financial gain that would have been met by staying in the CL or even the EL.
^^^^^ THIS!! Thanks for laying it out better than I did. I tend to think some of these things go without saying. I really need to say them. Thanks again man!!
Exactly... I believe we have a discussion about Klopp needing to rotate a squad if we were going to progress through CL..and maintain a top place in BL early on this season.
Goetze said something like ''our inexperience wasnt the reason for the elimination. We are simply very stupid for Europe''
He's too young and inexperienced to know the reason they were so "very stupid for Europe" is inexperience.
It clearly was not inexperience. The reasons were awful finishing(shooting abilities) in all the matches, tactical naivety in France and Greece, Kehl's amateurish error at home vs Arsenal,injuries to key players in the last 2 games and loss of hope after conceding the first goal against marseille and knowing that Olympiakos are winning comfortably against Arsenal. Well, missing so many clear-cut chances suggests that they were not good enough to be honest so they didnt deserve it even though in terms of performance, they outplayed all the teams.
Excuse me sir. But didn't Tottenham have the following players on their roster?? William Gallas Peter Crouch Rafael van der Vaart Roman Pavlyuchenko Vedran Ćorluka Niko Kranjčar Steven Pienaar Do you know what these players have in common? THEY ALL HAD AT LEAST THREE YEARS OF CL EXPERIENCE WITH OTHER CLUBS BEFORE LAST SEASON! Go back and look at the rosters of the clubs you're talking about. I guaran-god-damned-tee you they all bought at least two CL-seasoned veterans. If you're going to try to make me look like I don't know what I'm talking about, at least do your homework...... First of all, the never had to "wake up" in this competition. Their play never got drastically better. Hell, that first match against Arsenal was arguably the best one they played in the group phase. I fully agree that they didn't do enough in the matches they controlled. WHY IS THAT?? I'm guessing inexperience in dealing with the nervousness caused by the situation had nothing to do with it?? Excuse me man. Again, if you're going to try to make me look like I don't know what I'm talking about, at least do your homework. BVB's play in this tournament was consistent. They were simply missing the confidence they play with in the Bundesliga and were made to pay for their mistakes. Which they made a few more of thanks to nerves. Nerves brought on by INEXPERIENCE in dealing with the pressure. But of course, I don't know what I'm talking about.......
And I just showed you why you're still not seeing the big picture. Just because a CLUB might be a "debutant", it doesn't mean they don't have CL experience on the roster.
Apoel had lots of experience to qualify ... and MAN united had no experience and that's why the are out such a BS excuse indeed.
? no wonder some people in this forum think they are untouchable, thanks to people like you who keep feeding them with crap like this
You talk about one team. Why dont you talk about Napoli ? Cavani,Lavezzi and Hamsik dont have CL experience. They are just quality players. That's why they perform well. It does not matter which competition.