Busting the myth...

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by Bluecat82, Jun 30, 2005.

  1. Bluecat82

    Bluecat82 Member+

    Feb 24, 1999
    Minneapolis, MN
    Club:
    Minnesota United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    or maybe a few...we'll see...

    Myth #1

    Bruce uses the same guys all the time!

    The fact:

    35.

    The number of players used by the USA in this World Cup Qualifying cycle.

    35.

    Count 'em...I did...twice, just to make sure...

    Keller
    Vanney
    Bocanegra
    Cherundolo
    Lewis
    Stewart
    Reyna
    Kirovski
    Beasley
    Donovan
    Pope
    Casey
    Armas
    McBride
    Hedjuk
    Zavagnin
    Gibbs
    Mastroeni
    Wolff
    Convey
    Jones
    Ching
    Howard
    Mathis
    Berhalter
    Johnson
    Onyewu
    Dempsey
    Spector
    Albright
    Twellman
    Sanneh
    Corrales
    Ralston
    Noonan

    These aren't friendlies, gang...these are the "games that matter" as we so often hear...and all these guys have stepped on the field at least once...

    Oh, toss in another eight (mostly keepers) who dressed but never played...

    Walker
    Cannon
    Mullan
    Martino
    Hahnemann
    Busch
    Hartman
    Simms


    I'd be willing to wager that if we went back and looked at the training camp rosters we might be able to add another half-dozen or so players to this list.

    I imagine this list will get larger, we still have five matches to play...

    So, do we bust this myth or not?

    Any others?
     
  2. appoo

    appoo Member+

    Jul 30, 2001
    USA
    Myth #2 - Bruce doesn't use young players and never experiments with inexperienced players.
     
  3. Bluecat82

    Bluecat82 Member+

    Feb 24, 1999
    Minneapolis, MN
    Club:
    Minnesota United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Gold Cup roster (caps in parenthesis)

    Hahenmann (4)
    Keller (81)
    Reis (0)

    Cherundolo (27)
    Conrad (0)
    Hedjuk (62)
    Onyewu (4)
    Pope (70)
    Sanneh (41)
    Vanney (33)

    Armas (58)
    Beasley (45)
    Davis (0)
    Dempsey (8)
    Donovan (64)
    Mastroeni (37)
    O'Brien (21)
    Olsen (22)
    Ralston (24)

    Casey (7)
    Noonan (7)
    Quaranta (0)
    Wolff (31)

    Johnson had 8...
     
  4. appoo

    appoo Member+

    Jul 30, 2001
    USA
    and thats just for the Gold Cup.
     
  5. purojogo

    purojogo Member

    Sep 23, 2001
    US/Peru home
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Myth #3:
    Neither Bluecat 82 nor appooOnU, their friends, partners or associates are working under Bruce Arena, nor are they related to him any way, shape or form...
     
  6. Bluecat82

    Bluecat82 Member+

    Feb 24, 1999
    Minneapolis, MN
    Club:
    Minnesota United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    So much for caps...how about age?

    For the sake of argument, how about anybody under 25 being considered "young" (as in "not in their prime yet")...

    Hahenmann (33)
    Keller (35)
    Reis (30)

    Cherundolo (26)
    Conrad (28)
    Hedjuk (30)
    Onyewu (23)
    Pope (31)
    Sanneh (34)
    Vanney (31)

    Armas (32)
    Beasley (23)
    Davis (23)
    Dempsey (22)
    Donovan (23)

    Mastroeni (28)
    O'Brien (27)
    Olsen (28)
    Ralston (31)

    Casey (23)
    Noonan (24)
    Quaranta (20)

    Wolff (28)

    Myth #2 busted yet?
     
  7. Bluecat82

    Bluecat82 Member+

    Feb 24, 1999
    Minneapolis, MN
    Club:
    Minnesota United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Well, if I ran everbody I know through "The Six Degrees of Kevin Bacon" we might find someone...

    Can't speak for appooOnU, though
     
  8. Ringo

    Ringo Member

    Jun 10, 2002
    Rough and Ready
    Club:
    Yeovil Town FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    myth #3: Bruce once drank Coke and ate Pop-Rocks and his stomach exploded.
     
  9. purojogo

    purojogo Member

    Sep 23, 2001
    US/Peru home
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    you're getting confused with Sigi... whose gut has not stopped expanding ever since....
     
  10. Ringo

    Ringo Member

    Jun 10, 2002
    Rough and Ready
    Club:
    Yeovil Town FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    myth #4 Sigi ate Bruce's first-born child. Hence, Bruce has adopted Bobby as a surrogate and caps him accordingly.
     
  11. VTSoccerFan

    VTSoccerFan Member+

    New England Revolution, Vermont Catamounts
    United States
    Jun 28, 2002
    Cary, NC
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Just for fun... looking at the players that saw action in the last qualifying cycle as compared to this cycle:

    30 players with at least one 2000 WCQ Appearance:
    Tony Sanneh
    Earnie Stewart
    Robin Fraser
    Claudio Reyna
    Cobi Jones
    Eddie Pope
    Chris Armas
    Ante Razov
    David Regis
    Eddie Lewis
    Frankie Hejduk
    Greg Vanney
    Tab Ramos
    Gregg Berhalter
    Chad Deering
    Jason Kreis
    Brian McBride
    Joe-Max Moore
    John O'Brien
    Jovan Kirovski
    Carlos LLamosa
    Kasey Keller
    Jeff Agoos
    Chris Albright
    Josh Wolff
    Ben Olsen
    Tony Meola
    Chris Klein
    Clint Mathis
    Richie Williams

    30 players with at least one 2001 WCQ Appearance:
    Brad Friedel
    Tony Sanneh
    Jeff Agoos
    Eddie Pope
    David Regis
    Cobi Jones
    Chris Armas
    Claudio Reyna
    Earnie Stewart
    Brian McBride
    Joe-Max Moore
    Josh Wolff
    Clint Mathis
    Carlos LLamosa
    Steve Cherundolo
    Ante Razov
    Chris Albright
    Gregg Berhalter
    Jova Kirovski
    John O'Brien
    Chris Klein
    Landon Donovan
    Preki
    Chris Henderson
    Zach Thornton
    Gregg Vanney
    DaMarcus Beasley
    Jesse Marsch
    Kasey Keller
    Richie Williams

    16 "New" Guys - Have played in 2006 WCQ cycle, but did not appear in last WCQ cycle:
    Bocanegra
    Casey
    Zavagnin
    Gibbs
    Mastroeni
    Convey
    Ching
    Howard
    Johnson
    Onyewu
    Dempsey
    Spector
    Twellman
    Corrales
    Ralston
    Noonan


    20 "Old" Guys - Appeared in 2002 WCQ cycle, but are yet to appear the 2006 cycle:
    Robin Fraser
    Ante Razov
    David Regis
    Tab Ramos
    Chad Deering
    Jason Kreis
    Joe-Max Moore
    John O'Brien
    Carlos LLamosa
    Jeff Agoos
    Ben Olsen
    Tony Meola
    Chris Klein
    Richie Williams
    Brad Friedel
    Chris Armas
    Preki
    Chris Henderson
    Zach Thornton
    Jesse Marsch
     
  12. ursula

    ursula Member

    Feb 21, 1999
    Republic of Cascadia
    I don't know... Bruce's midriff is getting more expansive year by year....
     
  13. Davids26

    Davids26 Member

    May 31, 2000
    VTSoccerFan

    Good analysis but you have Chris Armas listed in the categories of being used in '06 qualifying and then not being used in '06 qualifying.
     
  14. SoulflyTribeFC

    SoulflyTribeFC New Member

    Mar 24, 2002
    Still don't see Chad Marshall anywhere...
     
  15. helmzgk

    helmzgk New Member

    Jun 14, 2002
    california
    Chad Marshall hasn't been capped in a WCQ match, but he will be before the hex is over. A duo of Marshall and Onyewu would be crazy, two giants in front of the keeper.
     
  16. SoulflyTribeFC

    SoulflyTribeFC New Member

    Mar 24, 2002
    That would be crazy. Those two guys are the future of the US defense.

    Still, Chad Marshall is only 20 or 21 so he's got a lot of soccer ahead of him. But it would be nice to have seen him in the Gold Cup but, oh yeah, the 28 year old uncapped Jimmy Conrad as does the 31 year old painfully slow Greg Vanney have more to offer.

    I hope you're right about Marshall being capped soon.
     
  17. helmzgk

    helmzgk New Member

    Jun 14, 2002
    california
    I witnessed his first cap against Colombia in Fullerton a few months ago. He was teamed up with Kotschau in the middle and Mullan on the right with Albright playing left back. He commanded all of them like he had been with the national team for a while, and easily had a better game than Kotschau, who was being outclassed by the Colombians. If Bruce wasn't impressed, than he's worse at developing talent than Andrulis, and that just can't be possible. I can't wait to see him in some important games.
     
  18. Elninho

    Elninho Member+

    Sacramento Republic FC
    United States
    Oct 30, 2000
    Sacramento, CA
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    If we get the job done against T&T in our next match, there's a chance that one point at home against Mexico will be enough to clinch direct qualification (most likely a win against T&T clinches playoff-or-better). I think we're very likely to get a win or a draw against Mexico, so what that means is: barring some pretty serious bad luck, there's a pretty good chance we will be qualified for the World Cup with three matches to play - two of them away in Central America, which means we can give some of the younger players some match experience in hostile environments.

    I'm willing to bet that Marshall will see action in at least two qualifying matches.
     
  19. Bluecat82

    Bluecat82 Member+

    Feb 24, 1999
    Minneapolis, MN
    Club:
    Minnesota United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The REAL myth #3!

    Myth #3

    The US doesn't deserve it's current #10 ranking in FIFA

    Deserve?

    They most certainly do!

    Why? This is no coaches/writers opinion poll...it's a mathematical formula...

    Reading assignment...

    http://www.fifa.com/en/mens/statistics/rank/procedures/0,2540,3,00.html

    It applies to everybody the same...

    There's room for reasonable discussion as to the validity of the formula, but when the numbers are crunched, the US comes out at #10.

    BTW, how important is the Gold Cup? (this may be myth number 4)

    FIFA ranks the matches "importance factor" thusly:

    Friendly 1.0
    Contential Championship prelim 1.25
    WC Qualifying match 1.25
    Contential Championship match 1.75
    Confederations Cup match 1.75
    WC Finals match 2.0

    Winning this tornament would be huge.

    Oh, remember, FIFA only takes the best 7 results of any year in figuring the ranking, so that friendly with England? Meant absolutely zero.
     
  20. purojogo

    purojogo Member

    Sep 23, 2001
    US/Peru home
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Re: The REAL myth #3!

    Sorry, hate reading assigments :)

    But seriously, if math formulas involve numbers, does that mean:

    Mexico 2- US 1
    IS Mexico then the superior team until the September match? And it's been superior to us for years, since the ranking said so?
    Haiti 1-US 1 We are yet to play Haiti again, IIRC...so are they perhaps our equals for the time being!? Because those numbers in the scorebard say so....

    And you are giving way too much importance to the GC... you are looking at it as a number.... I prefer to look at the actual competition playing in it... Oh, btw South Africa appear to be sending their B team ... Yipee... Actually, a bigger insult would be if this team manages to get past the first round, or gets to the semifinals..
     
  21. GoDC

    GoDC Member

    Nov 23, 1999
    Hamilton, VA
    When will you be addressing the Bruce only caps UVA or DC United players issue?
     
  22. purojogo

    purojogo Member

    Sep 23, 2001
    US/Peru home
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Wait, is that a myth?
     
  23. VTSoccerFan

    VTSoccerFan Member+

    New England Revolution, Vermont Catamounts
    United States
    Jun 28, 2002
    Cary, NC
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Sorry and thanks... I guess I was more tired than I thought, but I loved seeing some of those old names.
     
  24. Chicago1871

    Chicago1871 Member

    Apr 21, 2001
    Chicago
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    What good US soccer fan in their right mind would believe this statement? Arena has used more than one hundred players in his tenure as US coach.
     
  25. purojogo

    purojogo Member

    Sep 23, 2001
    US/Peru home
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    IMO, the real myth is that this is indeed a myth.....

    (meaning, not really true that lots of people do believe this....at least not those following the USMNT closely)
     

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