I saw a video on buildout lines that seemed pretty good, though it was a little outdated on goal kicks, saying the ball had to leave the area. The other question I had was something I should surely know, but maybe my rust is showing. When the keeper gets the ball from the run of play and the attacking team has to retreat, when is the attacking team allowed to attack again? Is it as soon as the ball leaves the keeper's hand or, as the video says, when another teammate touches it? Also, how strict should we be on drop kicks? I had a keeper over the weekend who kept tossing the ball down so she could kick it, and I realized there was a fine line between how much the ball bounces before she plays it. In other words, is it a "drop kick" if the player drops the ball to the ground and then kicks it within, say, 1/2 a second? Two seconds?
I don't do nearly enough U-Littles anymore to give you a definitive answer on the first part of the question. It feels right to say that the attackers can engage after the second player touches the ball (so the first player touching after the GK distributes or the first player after the player taking the goal kick). That way, the younger kids can get that first touch without worrying about pressure. As for the 2nd paragraph, this is the classic "I know it when I see it situation". For me, if a keeper drops the ball and then immediately kicks it just as it comes off the ground, that's a drop kick and illegal. I think a good rule of thumb would be that the keeper either a) takes a second touch or b) the ball has rolled or come to a complete stop. My son's former teammate sometimes dropped the ball to the ground, took a dribble or two, then kicked it long. His coach normally wanted them to build from the back, but he was OK with a long throw or a longer kick like this just to keep the other team honest.
Our local rule of thumb is that two or more bounces make it legal. That is, a drop kick is one bounce. U8 keepers mostly throw it. Adults in our 7v7 games roll it or throw it. On small fields adult keepers can put the ball over the mid-line throwing it and are generally more accurate with that. It's been a few years, but I was once asked to provide a ruling on whether a goal could be scored off a ball thrown by the keeper. Since normal soccer allows goals off punts, my answer was yes. Since it wasn't my game, my ruling was accepted without question.
I treat it very much like the circuit on Law 16 says to treat goal kicks. If there’s an honest effort to retreat or not enough time is given by the keeper/kicker I allow the opponents to counter attack as soon as the ball is released. With regard to drop kicks. No, illegal 100%. The point is they don’t want the ball launched through the air and thus encouraging challenges in the air.
The last set of US Soccer PDI documents I read stated that attackers could cross the BOL once the keeper has put the ball into play - no mention of a second player touching it. There might be some local ROC mods to that, or maybe US Soccer has changed the guidelines recently. However, I haven't done U-little matches in over a year or two. (But, I do miss them sometimes!)
As soon as the GK releases it. If he threw it beyond the break out line, would everyone freeze in place on defense until someone touched it? With the defender allowed to play the ball in the box, but the attackers not allowed to cross until the ball comes out, you can have a defender pass back and forth to the goalie inside the box for 30 minutes and then halftime. In seriousness, I didn't think the BOL worked well until IFAB changed this rule. Now the GK can play to a defender and they actually have time to get their head up and pick out a break out pass. Before, the BOL was not that far from the end of the penalty area and the pressure was immediate. Why the BOL is the offside line, nobody understands.
As long as it was before the 2019-20 Laws you were right (absent a local modification). It is only in the last year or two that changed and it is no longer legal for the GK to throw the ball into the goal. (I'd say it was one of the dumber law changes, but there have been so many I don't know it makes my list . . .)
Nobody? If the BOL is not the OS line, the logical thing for the other team to do is bring their defenders up to the halfway line. Once they do that, since the fields are so small, there is very little space in the midfield and the players get jammed together. By making the BOL also the OS line, it gives the the team taking the GK room to spread out so that there is the possibility of actually building out rather than everything turning into a clump in that small space between the BOL and halfway line. It's about trying to create space on a small field.
As the parent of a child who played U9 and U10 the first two years of the build out line, I can say without hesitation that I really like it at that age. As others have mentioned, the goal of that level of soccer is to help kids develop the ability to pass, move, and operate in space. If the offside line is the half line on a 55 x 30 field, that's not a lot of space for kids to pass and move. You then resort to a big, fast kid dribbling around everyone. If we want to teach kids to not play "herd ball", then there's a need for space. The build-out line helps make that happen. Of course, my son got a few goals when he got behind defenders napping and he was between the build out line and the half line. He knew the rules!
That was still one of the more annoying changes. Like you’re seriously going to take away a goal from a keeper that just threw an absolute howitzer the entire length of the field and into the opponents goal?
Also, what's the restart? The most logical thing is a goal kick, but I don't think that's specified anywhere in the laws. And the laws call it an "offense" just like any other handling, so that would suggest that the restart is a DFK. The really funny thing would be to say that the keeper infringed the laws with his throw, so the keeper handled the ball, and since he did it in his own penalty area, the restart is a PK.
Since this event shouldn't ever happen unless Patrick Mahomes decides to play goalkeeper, I would imagine the powers that be didn't even consider that. If this were to happen in my games, I'm awarding a goal kick and treating it like an indirect free kick that went into the goal without touching anyone. I don't think I'll get too many funny looks if I restart the game that way (i.e., it's "what football expects").
I know what you’re saying but that might be the single most damaging phrase to be coined with regard to the laws.
That is a nice theory but I don't think the average U10 travel game has the sophisticated press you describe. Plus, the players are not big, there is more than enough room in width. I've never seen the situation you describe in a U11 game, where there is no artificial offside line. 10 year old boys and girls are not radically different from 9 yo. 10 year old girls, and 99% of boys, cannot kick a goal kick far enough to dissuade your scenario. So, the theory is nice but practically, BOS as OL just confuses everyone with no practical benefit.
If there is no practical benefit and confusion, then it's on coaches who don't know how to coach and parents/coaches who don't want to understand the laws. My son's coach had no problems coaching this up. I was also at one of my son's games where a parent on the other team complained when my son (who knew the rule about the build out line) made a run behind the defense and was onside near the BOL. The parent was going nuts about being offside until I calmly told him the build out line was the offside line. Of course, he didn't want to believe me until the AR on my side simply told me, "I'm glad a parent here knows the laws" (he knew I was an official, as he and I do high school together). So my point is that the build out line works if coaches know about it. That should be a requirement in any grassroots coaching course, and the coach needs to be accountable for understanding it. I don't worry about parents not understanding offside around the BOL, as they don't know much about the Laws anyway.
That sounds like a condemnation of the travel coaches to me. I see AYSO volunteer coaches who understand this. I'm not really arguing that the BOL as OS line is the right choice, I'm just setting out the rationale, which wasn't created by a handful of dads sitting around drinking beer, but the folks at USSF focused on how to better develop youth players. I don't do a lot of 10U games, but from the ones I have done/seen, I think it does help create more space on the small field. (And while I started a skeptic, I think it has improved the 10U games, where the opponents goal kick used to be the best scoring opportunity of the game.) YMMV.
I'm not arguing either. I appreciated actually hearing the theory. It has worked better since IFAB changed the goal kick rule. I just don't think the BOL as OL is important or necessary. But again, I appreciated the theory as I was sure there had to be one. Claudio Reyna (was it he or Ramos that came up with it?) didn't just do it as a hockey fan.
I think the country has made incredible strides if random parents on the sidelines know the offside rule. That they don't know USSF's unique wrinkle for 9 yo's is the next step. Most coaches know it very well. My point is that 9 yo's are not going to exploit it regularly that it is necessary. If your kid does it and his team mate gets him the ball and the other team is caught ball watching, great. But what is your kid going to do the next year? Learn to not be offside? Didn't mean to open a can of worms, thanks for the answers.
I don't think it is so much exploiting, as forcing the defense to move back. If the opposing team has a competent coach, he's going to be getting defenders back with the attacker near the BOL--that's how it creates spade for the offense. If both teams are doing the right thing, BOL as OSL makes room for two lines of players (more or less), rather than just one line. I do agree that it impairs learning about OS somewhat for the players as it doesn't apply in the midfield (and for ARs*), but I don't know that many 10U players really get OS anyway, so I'm not sure it is a significant drawback. (Similar to why I don't think there is a lot of developmental harm from the no-heading rules.) _____ *I know in many club contexts this doesn't apply as games are regularly done without ARs. For AYSO, where teams have to get volunteers to be trained, most start at 10U. So it is a handicap in their training to not have as many OS determinations, which I think makes the 12U volunteer corp less developed. You can only learn so much about calling OS in the classroom.
Sorry if I appeared to be a smart-aleck. You raise some good points. This is just my opinion, but I think that if you are choosing rules modifications, I think at the U8-U10 level it's good to always err on changes that will present more space for passing and movement. The application may not always work, but I think the theory of creating as much space on the field as possible is a good thing. The other way to look at this is to say that any rule that moves the U-littles away from herd ball or the biggest/fastest kid just dribbling around the other team is a good thing.
I was afraid I sounded like a smart-aleck haha. I like the BOL. I like it more after the goal kick rules changed. I'm agnostic on the BOL as OSL. Certainly not going to die on the either hill on that one.
I think the rule (I guess it's not a "Law") on calling offside only beyond the BOL accomplishes a couple of things: 1. As others have alluded to, attackers can find a bit more space. 2. This may seem strange, but I actually find it simplifies things a bit. The ball can ping around at midfield a good bit, and when I'm flying solo as we do at U9 and U10, I have a hard time keeping track of who's behind whom. When the ball gets beyond the buildout line, it's either ... ... a. a long-ish pass forward in which only a couple of kids are beyond the BOL, and it's easier for me to keep straight. (The line itself, if it exists, also provides a handy reference point.) ... b. a gradual migration of both teams toward that part of the field, by which time I've (hopefully) made it down there as well, and I only need to worry about 20 yards or so for potential offside calls. There were several times in my return to action last weekend in which I was relieved that I didn't have to make a call when a ball was within 10 yards of midfield and I was behind the play, I mean, socially distanced.
One other thing about the BOL and offside. Many fans (parents), players, and refs seems to view the BOL as a line in hockey. As long as one toe is behind the line, then the player is on side. This is actually not spelled out anywhere in the BOL rules that I can find. But, I've always assumed that like offside at the center line and beyond the second to last defender, any playable part of the body beyond the line is offside.