British Soldiers Breaking into Iraqi Jail ?

Basra was one of the peaceful parts of Iraq.

Now the locals are burning British tanks in the street, and the Brits are busting their boys out of jail.
Operation FUBAR within enigma continues. The BushCo plan to bring peace to 'Raq? Its the constitution, stupid.

 

Article from the BBC.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/4262336.stm

 

1- Why were those 2 guys imprisoned?

2 - What kind of soveiregnity have iraqis if something like this happens?

3 - 150 prisoners managed to escape because the british army had to save 2 precious british men from iraqi police in iraq?

4- Have the british considered what can happen if also a shia insurgency will start?

WTF... risking to let the coalition deaths grow exponentially in next months to save 2 british men from iraqi prison? How wise is that?

There are lots of of unclear things in this incident.

 

Here is the official statement by the officer in command. Sounds to me that the British troops did the right thing. The two undercover soldiers (possibly SAS) were handed over to the militia by the Iraqi 'police' and were not in the custody of the Iraqi police at the time they wer rescued. They were kept in a house by the militia and not in the jail by the police. The Iraqi police broke Iraqi law and refused an order from the Iraqi Internal Minister to release the two undercover soldiers.

Looks to me like the actions of the British troops saved their two undercover comrades from being beheaded by insurgents. They would have no doubt been transfered from one hous to another and from one group to another and probably never would have been found alive again. I've heard the reason why these undercover soldiers were there in the first place is that they were invistigating insurgent infiltrations of the police. Sounds about right to me and judging by the actions of the Iraqi 'police' they had reason for these investigations.

Well done lads. Mission accomplished.

"*OFFICIAL*

STATEMENT GIVEN BY BRIGADE COMMANDER 12 MECHANIZED BRIGADE – BRIGADIER JOHN LORIMER

During the morning two British soldiers were detained at the Jamiat Police Station in Basra. Under Iraqi law, as MNF soldiers, they should have been handed over to the Coalition authorities. The Consul-General and I asked repeatedly for this but it did not happen.

During the day we went to exhaustive lengths to achieve the hand-over of the soldiers. And in fact, as a result, we understand that the Iraqi Interior Minister personally ordered the release of the soldiers. However, that order seems to have been ignored.

From an early stage, I had good reason to believe that the lives of the two soldiers were at risk and troops were sent to the area of Basra near the police station to help ensure their safety by providing a cordon. As shown on television, these troops were attacked with fire-bombs and rockets by a violent and determined crowd.

Later in the day, however, I became more concerned about the safety of the two soldiers after we received information that they had been handed over to militia elements. As a result I took the difficult decision to order entry to the Jamiat police station. By taking this action we were able to confirm that the soldiers were no longer being held by the IPS. An operation was then mounted to rescue them from a house in Basra.

I am delighted that the two British soldiers are back with British Forces and are in good health. We will be following up with the authorities in Basra why the soldiers were not immediately handed over to MNF as Iraqi law (CPA Order 17) says that they should have been.

I should put the scale of yesterday’s disorder into context. British armoured vehicles being attacked by a violent crowd, including with petrol bombs, makes graphic television viewing. But this was a small unrepresentative crowd (200-300) in a city of 1.5 million. The vast majority of Iraqi people in MND(SE) are law abiding and value the contribution made by coalition forces to maintaining stability and security.

Minor damage was caused to the prison compound wall and to the house in which our two soldiers were held.

It is of deep concern that British soldiers held by the police should end up being held by militia. This is unacceptable and I should stress that we won’t hesitate to take action against those who are involved in planning and conducting attacks against coalition forces.

Looking ahead, I should stress that the situation in Basra is now calm. We will continue to work closely with local authorities to maintain this calm, and with the Iraqi Security Forces who capabilities we are helping to develop. It was a difficult day yesterday, but we have put this behind us and will move on.

 

Have a look at this picture:



I think those British troops showed remarkable restraint in not opening fire on those civilians yesterday.

 

Because they were stopped at a checkpoint in local dress with weapons and explosives on them.

Currently, limited sovereignity - for sound operational reasons such as this one. British troops do not yet fall under local jurisdiction.

Two SAS infiltrators of the insurgency network that is actively harming southern Iraq's instability. They could not be allowed to pass through corrupt police units to the very people they are seeking to counteract.

Yes, but there's nothing to suggest that this single, comparatively minor (if visually compelling) event raises the risk of such an insurgency by any noteworthy level.

 

Haven't you noticed this statement?
"As a result I took the difficult decision to order entry to the Jamiat police station."

It was not a house, it was the Jamiat police station.

 

Thankfully and wisely so otherwise it would have created almost certainly a no return incident (if it's not already so).

That horrible photo shows already that to save these guys at least one other guy is dead.

 

Actually, he's in hospital with moderate burns.

 

First the police station, then, when they realised the local police had handed the two men on to "militia elements", the house in which they were believed to be being held.

 

Matt, I understand your POV but you can dismiss the fact that it is a major hurt to the "win hearts and minds" policy. A clear show (for the shia masses) of the at best quasi-sovereignity the iraqis still have in their own country.

The message common Alì will get is british troops can do anything and they cannot be arrested.

What I really question is the wisdom of such move for future development.

If as a result of this incident dozens of british troops will be hit was it in the end a wise move to save 2 soldiers from imprisonment?
Wan't it better to wait and try diplomatic ways to free those guys?

 

better so, the image is frightening and I would imagine that a face burning like that wouldn't end with moderate burns.

 

oops, you're right.

Have we all discovered suddenly that shia militias and iraqi forces are almost the same thing at least in the basra area?

What about the fact that they were transported elsewhere to avoid them being rescued?

 

Well, of course it would be preferable if this had not happened but then this was a decidedly isolated incident by its very nature - two SAS men getting busted by local bobbies in what appears to be deep undercover mode. I don't think you can extrapolate from that anything to "messagey" for us or the Iraqis. Fact is, the British forces have had notable successes in the whole "Hearts and Minds" campaign in their sector of Iraq and incidents such as this, whilst horrible in detail and uncomfortable by wider implication, are not sufficient to cause a noticeable change in the progress of the work being done there.

On the specific point of "common Ali" and also the scope of British sovereignity over local authorities, these have been in place (for, as I said, very good reasons) for the duration of the occupation and the occasional practical demonstrations of this are unfortunate, not cataclysmic.

The wisdom of this action, again as I have said, needs to be viewed in terms of the damage done by allowing the very front, front line in our fight against insurgents to be captured and handed to the very people they are trying to defeat. The tactical and strategic damage of SAS men falling into the hands of insurgents far outweighs the potential difficulties a small, opportunistic and low-level rent-a-mob can present for our continued occupation of southern Iraq.

 

Hopefully so, Matt.

I think the real danger in basra is certainly not the sunni insurgency. It is the shia insurgency which now exists at minimal level. The shia militias are (almost) quiet none surely want them to start creating the mess they can start. This incident could trigger a more unpleasant insurgency. "Could" is not "certainly will" I concede.
Let's hope your optimistic views prove to be right.

 

On NPR this morning I heard the events as Mat has stated them: they broke down the wall to the prison, found the soldiers had been handed off to militia men, and then proceeded to find the house and liberate the men.

Apparently, members of the militias have infiltrated the police in Basra (2 main groups were mentioned), and I'm sure the British forces felt their soldiers were in mortal danger.

 

Big fuss about nothing, Tim Collins compared it to "a bad night in Belfast."

 

Yes there is more to it. apparently the head of police in iraq claims to have only 25% of the force under his control. thats not good. So, by his own admission 75% of Iraqi police are contolled by others, probably terrorists, insurgents and the other hyper-religious c0cksuckers that there seems to be alot of in that country. The best people in iraq to find out which cops are bent are the SAS. so they go undercover. if they got in a gun fight with iraqi police i am pretty sure they would be of the bent variety. The SAS get arrested by the police. they should then be handed over to coalition authorities but are not, despite high level IRAQIs ordering this. so we send tanks and stuff to the prison. at gunpoint it then turns out they are going to be given to insurgents instead. Alarm bells are ringing in the heads of the british army so we go and get them out of some kind of safe house. As a result, we saved our soldiers, the Iraqi police have been exsposed for being infiltrated by terrorists and about 200-300 civilians went home and should count themselves lucky British soldiers aren't trigger-happy or they would have had their sh1t spread all over basra.

 

Once again, Basra was considered one of the most peaceful parts of Iraq. Basra was being held up as an example of what the rest of Iraq was soon to become under the guiding hand of USA and British forces.

I am more depressed than ever...

 

Moqtada al-Sadr is misbehaving again. He should have been delt with in 2004 instead of being brought into the fold politically.

Revolt-
You must have been ignoring Basra, or not studying it in depth, because their police has been corrupt and infiltrated the entire time. Of course word hasn't been getting out that well about it when the police are murdering the reporters while they are working on their stories.

 

Start to withdraw now.

 

ah yes, you can consider it a reconstruction job well done and that it's time to leave when the local police force is infiltrated by murdering local militia. Yes, lets start to withdraw now. Job done

 

No, I consider it a fool's errand.