Breakout US Youth Nationals in the MLS for 2020

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by glutton4Bolts, Feb 21, 2020.

  1. Rahbiefowlah

    Rahbiefowlah Member+

    Oct 22, 2001
    Las Vegas
    I think Araujo will end up with the better career.
     
  2. 50/50 Ball

    50/50 Ball Member+

    Sep 6, 2006
    USA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    Efra seems talented enough to keep on him til it's too late. I'd be surprised if he isn't at least open to playing for the US.
     
  3. thedukeofsoccer

    thedukeofsoccer Member+

    Jul 11, 2004
    Youtube: Jimmy Dore, Secular Talk
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Efrain tries more, but is still inconsistent in the effort dept, & a real liability on defense. You need to hide him to get the benefit of his field vision. In this sense he's more useful than a Mendez. Mendez just has the left foot.

    I don't know if you can get away with it in modern football. It's a narrow lane. You have to be around a lot of good footballers to service & serve you, while also being the being the best of the lot offensively. Better teammates & Alvarez is involved in 2 goals. Higher quality opponents than SJ they get beat by as many as before.

    Araujo isn't a juggernaut offensively. Can't really take you off the dribble & his first touch is suspect. But he also shuts down his side to cover for a defensive liability like Alvarez. So pick your poison. I'd bank on Araujo refining skills w/ experience.
     
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  4. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    Word is that he's open.

    Araujo has always publicly stated it's about opportunity. I always worry a bit for the players who position this way; it's smart in the sense that it puts some pressure on the federations not to take them for granted.

    But for their own sake, I hope they think long term -- whenever anyway states it that way it always seems like they are thinking only in immediate terms; whoever calls me up first. That can lead to some negative long term consequences. (Not saying anything about Araujo in particular).
     
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  5. bsky22

    bsky22 Member+

    Dec 8, 2003
    He is eligible our YNTs. As others have stated, he is open to play for the US. I'd like to see us try to get him on our u20 team.
     
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  6. tomásbernal

    tomásbernal Member+

    Sep 4, 2007
    Club:
    Portland Timbers
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    IIRC, he's already played for the USYNT and switched to the MXYNT. Under FIFA rules would he be allowed to switch back to USYNT without making it final who he plays for?
     
  7. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    I am not 100%, but since he's played in a competitive youth match for Mexico (like the CONCACAF U20, etc), he can only come back and play for the US via a one-time switch. Which he wouldn't do without a senior team call-up, I suspect.
     
  8. glutton4Bolts

    glutton4Bolts Member+

    Chelsea
    United States
    Mar 18, 2019
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I honestly don't know either. The rules are completely messed up and in flux. I tend to think you should try to play for the country you were born in but it seems to be more about availability. I am not sure about Efra. He started off with us and then jumped ship to Mexico. If it was not about being offered a slot with the US then I get it but if he chose Mexico over us over some higher allegiance then I am cool with him just staying with Mexico. He couldn't sniff winger for our team right now and I like the options we have that are roughly his age getting minutes around the world. I will say this... the kid can shoot for distance with that left foot.
     
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  9. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    He never played in an official FIFA competition for the US, so didn't use his one-time switch to go to Mexico. He's played in the U17 World Cup for Mexico..............so would now be able to use his one-time switch back to the US.

    There have been similar yo-yo circumstances. Back in the 2007 cycle Sonny Guadarrama switched from USYNTs to Mexico (he played for Santos Laguna at the time). When it looked like he wasn't going to be part of the Mexico U20 squad, he wanted to switch back to the US U20 team. The U20 coach at the time, Thomas Rongen, asked his team whether they should take Sonny back. And the PLAYERS, his former teammates, told him to take an effing hike. So Sonny never appeared for any national team program again. [Sonny still plays all of these year later for Austin Bold after a 10 year career in Mexico]

    Efrain Alvarez was kicked out of a USYNT camp for some disciplinary reason that nobody seems to really know the truth of. There were reportedly a "couple of incidents" in a short span of time. People have speculated about what happened, but we just don't know. Some say he didn't react well to being benched, and he threw a hissy fit. Basically a 15 year old prima donna. Speculation. Mexico pounced, and the rest is history.

    It seems like enough time has passed. Both side seem to indicate that there's no lingering animosity. Its just a question of whether Alvarez would switch back. And if he does, is it because Mexico is no longer interested? And then there's the odd question. Would Efrain Alvarez even make our U20WC team? After all we have U20 attacking players at Dortmund, Barcelona, Celtic, Porto, Wolfsburg, the list goes on and on. We have a U20 attacking player getting premier league minutes (Vassilev at Aston Villa) that we never talk about.

    I personally would include him in a US U20 roster, probably because some of those Euro-based players wouldn't be available. Reyna is the big one, of course.
     
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  10. MPNumber9

    MPNumber9 Member+

    Oct 10, 2010
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Is there another player in the pool that can make this pass? (This is an honest question for those that follow young Yanks more than me). Also struck the post from about 25 yards out.



    Lletget might be in the 10 position, but Alvarez in a couple starts has hit passes that Sebastian would never see or execute if the he played for 20 more years. Here's Alvarez starting and finishing the sequence that results in his first MLS goal:



    Releasing Feltscher for Lletget's now famous bicycle vs. LAFC


    Even in this new era, I don't see too many Americans showing the technique and field awareness Alvarez has shown.
     
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  11. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    Honestly, yes, we have quite a few kids I've seen hit that kind of pass. That's not to degrade Alvarez; it's a great pass, but I've seen quite a bit there.

    That said, what Alvarez has that few Americans have is (a) his general dribbling and flair is pretty rare aside from a few folks and (b) even fewer seem to have his distance finishing.
     
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  12. deejay

    deejay Member+

    Feb 14, 2000
    Tarpon Springs, FL
    Club:
    Jorge Wilstermann
    Nat'l Team:
    Bolivia
    The boy certainly has quality. But is he better than, for instance, Aaronson? And he definitely isn't better than Reyna. There are also other names to consider like Llanez, Ledezma or Taitague. let's not forget the Pulisic has a long career ahead of him. It's still sort of weird and hard to process but it really seems that we have a lot of incoming options for wing and attacking midfielder.
     
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  13. 50/50 Ball

    50/50 Ball Member+

    Sep 6, 2006
    USA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I took it more to ask about the sweet left foot. Some of the youth followers say he's got the best service in the pool. That doesn't make him the best player. Brad Davis had the best foot in pool for a decade as one example.
     
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  14. RalleeMonkey

    RalleeMonkey Member+

    Aug 30, 2004
    here
    He's definitely a player I'd like in the mix. All of these guys are young - who knows who will finally bubble up, to what level? (excluding Puli, obviously - he's already reached fantastic levels & prolly Reyna, too). If we can get Efra in the mix, great.
     
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  15. IndividualEleven

    Mar 16, 2006
     
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  16. glutton4Bolts

    glutton4Bolts Member+

    Chelsea
    United States
    Mar 18, 2019
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think most would agree with your statement... The more bullets you have w/ respect to depth and possible future starters the better... My major point is that the US finally seems to have a lot of depth and I am not going to lose sleep over whether this kid chooses the country he was born in. I just thought it was funny how the LA Galaxy announcers were calling him a Mexican... does he even have a Mexican citizenship? Dude was born in LA just like Araujo... but they went out of their way to constantly call him Mexican while Araujo was labeled as American... of course, with the rather loud caveat that his family is very Mexican.
     
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  17. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    #717 Clint Eastwood, Sep 16, 2020 at 5:25 AM
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2020 at 5:42 AM
    Of course Alvarez has Mexican citizenship. He's represented Mexico at the U17 World Cup.

    I've been around some Mexican-American dual-nationals at FC Dallas. The decision of which nation to represent is an excruciating one. No matter which way they choose, they feel like they're letting important folks in their lives down. People always say "go with your heart." Their heart is in both places too. Their family often pulls them in the Mexico direction and their "soccer family" pulls them in the US direction. This is why these kids often just throw their hands up and say "first come; first serve." The program that's committed to them early and often tends to win. Alvarez was a different case. He was an important component of our youth teams. He was even the team captain at the U15 level. Then "something" happened that led to friction. Mexico pounced.

    Why did Sergino Dest ultimately choose the US? Its because the US recruited him early, making him a part of their U17 squad. So he developed relationships with his teammates and coaches. When Holland came calling, it was hard to turn his back on the "soccer family" that he'd become a part of with the states. Its an example of the importance of early recruiting of these dual-nats.

    Why did Jonathan Gonzalez not pick the states? We actually recruited him early too, calling him to the U20s "up a cycle." Because when he needed assurance of his role with the full USMNT moving forward.....................there was no USSF President, no technical director, no full-time USMNT coach, not even a U23 coach. The only person at the wheel was the U20 coach, Tab Ramos. He couldn't provide any assurance of his place. People say that interim USMNT coach Dave Sarachan should have called him up to that Portugal friendly right after we failed to quallify for the World Cup. Well, instead Dave used that game as a first cap opportunity for McKennie and Adams. I think Dave got that one right. And the other CM was Kellyn Acosta. At the time a young player that had just become established in the program, and looked like a longer term piece. Started and played well at the Azteca WCQer, for instance.

    Anyway, I've veered off topic. :)
    My point is that Alvarez is Mexican. Alvarez is American. He's both. He's free to choose either. Its not an easy decision. Who's to blame for the break between Alvarez and the US program? Nobody knows what happened, so its hard to say. Do I want him in the US program? Yes. Am I crying myself to sleep every night because he's not? No. I gave up on #dualnationalpanic about 15 years ago. We panic about dual-national not choosing us, but ultimately only one or two would have made a measurable difference to our program. And in my opinion only one US-born player would have. (Rossi............who faded dramatically due to injury).
     
  18. LuckofLichaj

    LuckofLichaj Member

    Mar 9, 2012
    Oompa loompa duppity doo.....
     
  19. 50/50 Ball

    50/50 Ball Member+

    Sep 6, 2006
    USA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Rossi is the only big miss IMO. He hurt the US and himself.
     
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  20. IndividualEleven

    Mar 16, 2006
    Arena had ample opportunity to call in Jonathan Gonzalez.

    With Rossi, we make it out of group stages in '06.
     
  21. Pegasus

    Pegasus Member+

    Apr 20, 1999
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think Subotic would have helped too.
     
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  22. KALM

    KALM Member+

    Oct 6, 2006
    Boston/Providence
    Subotic hurts a little less in retrospect, given that the guy essentially retired from international soccer at the age of 24. He might have been useful in South Africa, but it doesn't seem like he would have been all that interested or committed for the long haul.
     
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  23. nobody

    nobody Member+

    Jun 20, 2000
    I think this is a really good point that often gets lost in the mix. People harp about wanting people to feel American and they have to love the flag or whatever and get really annoyed when a kid doesn't unequivocally state they want to play for the US right out of the gate. But fact is, people with mixed backgrounds often have strong feelings for more than one country. We should never expect someone to have to deny half of who they are in order to play for he US team unless we're OK with just alienating a bunch of kids who may really want to play and play hard for us, but who aren't blind to their family histories and honest enough to admit it is a hard decision.
     
  24. Patrick167

    Patrick167 Member+

    Dortmund
    United States
    May 4, 2017
    All you can ask is the the people at USSF recognize the talent and do what they can. JoGo should have definitely been called into the November camp and played that game. But Sarachan didn't even know about him and Ramos was marginalized. In the end, the President of USSF was asking the best player we have to call the kid and ask him to stay. Would have just been easier to call him to that camp.

    His form has dipped since he became infamous. But, that doesn't excuse that USSF was completely out to lunch. Or that Richie Williams had alienated the family.

    It does seem like Berhalter, Hudson, and Kries and McBride are doing a much better job than what was happening in 2017.
     
  25. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Yup. Its why I said Rossi was the only "US born" player that would have made a measurable difference.

    Subotic's case was really complicated and I'd rather not start a 400 post argument about it. :)

    The reason I say Jonathan Gonzalez wouldn't make an appreciable difference if we'd retained him is that I think Tyler Adams blows him out of the freaking water. And we have a pretty good group of other young #6s advancing as well. Worth noting that Jonathan Gonzalez didn't make Mexico's U20WC team in 2019, didn't make their Olympic qualifying squad in 2020 (a totally domestic squad), and to date has only 3 appearances for Mexico in meaningless friendlies. He's good, but he's not so good that we need to have endless arguments about him. Good bye, good luck is all we need to say.

    And I feel the same about Efrain Alvarez. Is he better than the other young players like Gio Reyna? Nowhere close, and Gio is actually younger. So if he wants to represent Mexico.............goodbye and good luck. If he wants to come back into the US fold, that's fine too. But I don't think he'd start for our "best" U20 team. He might make the bench.
     
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