In the long run, I think BC is going to be hurt by this. Recruiting is going to become a bit of a struggle compared to before, and their b-ball team is going to take a slight hit. ND will be in a conference eventually. When, I don't know, but It all comes down to NBC's contract. So the BE will have 8 football teams U Conn Pittsburgh Rutgers Syracuse West Virginia Louisville Cincinnati ?????????? + 8 Non-Football teams Georgetown St. Johns Providence Seton Hall Notre Dame Villanova Marquette Depaul The conference (to soothe CIM's locatrion problem) Notre Dame Marquette Depaul Louisville Cincinnatti Pittsburgh Syracuse West Virginia
I don't see Big East basketball being hurt by this. In fact they will be stronger. Losing BC, Miami, and Va Tech, and adding Louisville, Cincy, Marquette, and DePaul seems to help the league imo. It drastically hurts the football programs but they will still make money cause I can't see them being dropped from the BCS.
The Big East could be dropped by the BCS come next negotiation round, especially if the ACC start talking about how they deserve another slot. If Pitt or Syracuse is the prime football team in the Big East, they'll have a tough time keeping the BCS slot.
In the coming years expect every conferance to be included in whatever BCS format they draw up. There has already been talk of lawsuits being filed by the Mountain West, MAC, and WAC conferances about this issue. The big football playing conferances can't exclude whom they wish forever. And when this happens the money each conferance gets will be diluted and BC will wish they never moved.
Nothing to add except to say point taken. I forgot that UNC and Duke voted against expansion, so yeah, it does prove your point about b-ball program's power. But I'm not sure if it applies to 'Cuse. Whereas UNC and Duke fought to maintain status quo and their share of the b-ball pie, (had they been offered a spot in the ACC) Syracuse would have had to decide if it was worth staying in the potentially sinking ship that is Miami-less Big East. Though it seems like Big East will be fine, at least basketball-wise. It does become a glorified C-USA in football, however.
Well, the departure of BC, Miami, and Virginia Tech has started the dominoes falling. The Big East will definitely be formally inviting DePaul, Cincinnati, Louisville, and Marquette from Conference USA during its Nov. 4 conference meeting. However, because only Cincinnati and Louisville would be joining as football members and because Temple (who only plays football in the Big East) is being booted out next season, that would still leave the Big East with only six football members, seven when UConn goes from an non-football to an all-sports member in 2006. However, reports indicate that the Big East will also invite CUSA member South Florida to join in all sports, bring the Big East football tally to eight all-sports schools: Pitt Rutgers Syracuse West Virginia Cincinnati Louisville UConn South Florida Meanwhile, CUSA, having lost those three schools plus Army (who's going independent) and non-football members UNC-Charlotte and St. Louis (who are going to the Atlantic 10), are left with seven football members. So they're raiding the WAC for SMU, Rice, and Tulsa, and the MAC for Marshall and Central Florida. And apparently, CUSA looks as if they're gonna get SMU, Rice, and Tulsa, which would bring CUSA's membership to 12 all-sports schools, if Marshall and Central Florida also bolt: West Houston TCU Tulane SMU Rice Tulsa East Memphis Alabama-Birmingham East Carolina Southern Miss. Marshall Central Florida The real loser in all of this appears to be the WAC. With SMU, Rice, and Tulsa's departures, they're down to seven members: Boise St. Fresno St. Hawaii Louisiana Tech Nevada San Jose St. UTEP Certainly, I can't imagine that Louisiana Tech would want to hang around too much longer as the only school in the Central time zone. If I were a betting man, I'd bet that they'd head for the Sun Belt Conference, whose membership includes Arkansas State, Louisiana-Lafayette, Louisiana-Monroe, Middle Tennessee St., and North Texas. (Of course, the Sun Belt also has Idaho, New Mexico St., and Utah St.) Compounding the WAC's problems are the rumors that the higher-profile Mountain West Conference might want to expand from eight teams to 10 or even 12, and current WAC schools would be prime candidates for expansion. About the only Division I-A conferences who appear to be set right now are the Big Televen, the Big XII, the SEC, and the Pac-10.
The WAC seems to be the conference in the biggest trouble. The rumors that the Mountain West are after Hawai'i, Fresno State and Boise State, compounded with the most likely defections of SMU, Tulsa and Rice to the new Conference USA, leaves the WAC in a tight spot. I can also see the Pac 10 also adding two teams.
They've announced the new ACC divisional alignment. From the AP, via ESPN: "Each team will play its division opponents, a primary rival in the opposite division and two cross-divisional games against rotating opponents. The split: Division A: Boston College, Clemson, Florida State, Maryland, N.C. State, Wake Forest. Division B: Duke, Georgia Tech, Miami, North Carolina, Virginia, Virginia Tech. The primary cross-divisional rivalries are Maryland-Virginia, Clemson-Georgia Tech, N.C. State-North Carolina, Wake Forest-Duke, Florida State-Miami, Boston College-Virginia Tech." So for example, that means that Miami -- clearly the most attractive foottball opponent -- will go to BC, Clemson, Maryland, NC State, and Wake only once every five years. Meanwhile, Red Harvest is right -- the WAC is cooked as Tulsa, SMU, and Rice defect.
I've heard from a few media outlets in the past that Fresno would have already been invited years ago if not for Jerry Tarkanian being on the payroll, FWIW.
So BC has to pay a $5 million exit fee and can't start ACC play until 2006. Maybe. Well, they're trying to find out if the new exit rules have taken effect. But in any case, scheduling is a mess for everyone concerned. Would BC and Big East negotiate the terms just so they can get on with it sooner?
Now I'm trying to figure out who the WAC can get to replace those three schools. They're down to 7 schools. If all remains the same, they can survive for a bit with 7 schools ala the Big East. But if they lose either Hawai'i, Fresno State or Boise State to the Mountain West Conference, they're in serious trouble.
Either way, the only option for them appears to be a raid of the western schools in the Sun Belt Conference (Idaho, Utah St., and New Mexico State). I can't see the other schools in the Sun Belt (North Texas, Arkansas St., Louisiana-Lafayette, Louisiana-Monroe, Middle Tennessee St., Troy St.) going to the WAC, mostly because of travel considerations. And for that matter, I think that Louisiana Tech's days in the WAC are numbered. With the departure of SMU, Rice, and Tulsa, they're now the only WAC school in the Central time zone and their closest conference rivals is now UTEP -- who's still around 900 miles away. Their best option is to hope that the CUSA needs them to make up the numbers. Barring that, they're headed for the Sun Belt. As for the rest of the WAC, they're screwed. With the departures of SMU, Rice, and Tulsa, and the likely departure of Louisiana Tech, that pretty much leaves them with six members. For yet another alternative scenario, how about an amicable trade between the WAC and the Sun Belt? Essentially, Utah St., New Mexico St., and Idaho would go to the WAC, while Louisiana Tech would go to the Sun Belt. The Mountain West is saying right now that they don't really NEED to find any new members because none of their current members are being targeted, but if the WAC is starting to get picked apart, I could see the MWC taking up to four of the more desirable WAC members. Right now, I figure that to be Fresno St., San Jose St., Nevada, and either Hawaii or Boise St. The first three of those schools are no-brainers because of geography or market size or attendance or rivalry. But I can't figure out whether the MWC would rather have Hawaii or Boise St. On the one hand, a trip to Hawaii every couple of years is a pretty easy sell to recruits, moreso that a trip to Boise every couple of years. On the other hand, traveling to Boise is a lot cheaper and easier than travelling to Honolulu. In any case, all of this is a sad sign of the decline of the WAC from its heyday in the '80s to the current state of affairs, where they're forced to sign up "I had no idea that they were Division I-A" directional schools.
Is it me or would the BCS ,NCAA and conferences be better off if they just completely divorced the football conference setup from everything else and went to ,say 8 12 team conferences ? Why does Vandy or UTEP or Temple have to pretend to be a competitive major college football program?Why can't a Marshall get their shot at playing a big-time schedule? Because really,the tradition arguments just all went right down the toilet this fall didn't they? 96 teams,if you suck for too long you get booted and another team gets their chance. I know it's a pipe dream,but couldn't college sports do something honest and rational for a change?
The way the rules were written at the last set of meetings, it's either $5 million or 27 months' notice. Not both. BC President Leahy's question is whether or not those new rules ever got officially ratified, for if they didn't, BC can pay $1 million and get out for '04. After the debacle in Syracuse yesterday where 40K were chanting "ACC" throughout the entire 2nd half of a blowout loss, I'd think that some well-heeled alum might just step up and pay whatever fee it takes to get out of the Big East ASAP.
I understand Idaho, Utah State and New Mexico State to the WAC, but I just can't see La Tech in the Sun Belt. Sure it's closer geographically, but I consider the Sun Belt a step below the WAC, especially in football. If I were a recruit, I would rather play Hawai'i, Fresno State or Boise State than Louisiana-Monroe, Middle Tennessee State or North Texas. Unless C-USA comes calling, I believe La Tech is better off in the WAC. Just my worthless .02.
As the VT alum around here (as far as I know, I'm the only one who posts regularly), I'd like to agree with Superdave. I would like to say that I'd rate Tech's Engineering and Agriculture programs against most in the country. We're a fine research institution as well. We don't have a law school or a med school, and that ends up hurting us in the rankings, but it certainly does not keep us from being a good school.
Plus, you guys have the second most powerful supercomputer in the world. It's unfortunate US News & World Report doesn't consider processor speed.
Looks like the WAC wil try to raid the Sun Belt. http://espn.go.com/ncaa/news/2003/1020/1642537.html They've made a commitment to La Tech. Like I said, La Tech to the Sun Belt is a bad move. The WAC is better off pilfering the Sun Belt schools to appease La Tech.
But with Rice, Tulsa, and SMU gone, La Tech is stuck on an island with their closest competition being UTEP and New Mexico. Sykotyk
Well, then you can almost guarantee that the WAC is going to invite North Texas, especially since UNT gives them a foothold in the D/FW area that they'd be losing with SMU's departure. Also, UNT has been the Sun Belt's strongest football program the last few years. And of course, they're going to invite New Mexico St., Utah St., and Idaho. So that would give them 11 members: Hawaii Fresno St. San Jose St. Nevada Boise St. Idaho Utah St. New Mexico St. UTEP North Texas Louisiana Tech (New Mexico is in the Mountain West.)
They were, once upon a time. In fact, the current Mountain West Conference is pretty much the old WAC from 10-15 years ago. Just replace UNLV with UTEP and Hawaii, and you've got the WAC in 1990, before they did their ridiculous expansion to 16 teams in the mid '90s, which was followed a few years later by the departure of the biggest WAC teams to form the MWC.
Utah State, New Mexico State will join the WAC Both schools will be joining the WAC in all sports starting the 2005-06 season. That brings the WAC (after SMU, Rice, and Tulsa's departures) to nine teams. They have plans to add one more team, but which team they add depends greatly on what Louisiana Tech does and whether or not the Mountain West raids them. Andy Katz seems to think that the Mountain West will go after TCU, but I don't think that TCU will leave CUSA for the Mountain West. First, the Mountain West wouldn't really be a step up. Second, I'm not sure that they want to be the only Central time zone team in a mostly western conference. They already went through that once when they were in the WAC, and I'm sure that they'd much rather be with SMU, Rice, Tulsa, Houston, and Tulane in CUSA. Assuming that the WAC presidents are serious about keeping Louisiana Tech happy and taking them into consideration when it comes to expansion, I think that they're going to invite North Texas next. The only way they don't is if La Tech leaves.
You guys seem to know a lot about college athletics and stuff. What are some of the teams the Mountain West might try to lure? As an SDSU fan, I want to know who some future rivals might be. If I were to venture a guess from the WAC I could see Nevada, Hawaii or Fresno State as teams that would be a good fit for the MWC. Also, is it possible that the PAC-10 might try to snatch a team or two? I remember a long time ago SDSU was rumored to go to the PAC-10.
Wow, the WAC has become a reincarnation of the PCAA/Big West. Except for UNLV, all of the schools that were in that league 15 years ago who haven't dropped football are back together in the WAC. Also Nevada, Boise State, and Louisiana Tech all had stints in the Big West before it became a non-football league. If they add North Texas they will get another former Big West school. Fresno State has to be hating this and dreaming of the Mountain West. They thought they left these guys behind in 1992.