there is light at the end of the tunnel. while a total solution is not possible because football fans behavior IS A REFLECTS what is happening in societies (don´t expect brazilian fans to not be violent when there is so much violence in the country!), sometimes good things can be done setting examples. in Brazil, we never reached the SINGLE CROWD solution that Argentina went for. But while in the past it was 50/50, the % of the visiting fans was decreasing and decreasing as time went by... it was 10% or 5% in the whole country already, and several state confederations were discussing single crowd. then the light in the end of the tunnel I was talking about: Gremio and Internacional, considered by many as the biggest rivalry in Brazil, reached a deal where you would still have the 5-10% (depends of the match) of visiting fans, but they also created a NEW sector for about 1500-2000 fans (at Beira Rio and Gremio Arena)... MIXED FANS! Fans of Inter and Gremio attending matches TOGETHER. Whole families, husband and wife, father and son, siblings, etc, who were never able to see a Gre-Nal together because of the violence that resulted in crowds being split, were able for the first time to attend matches together! Plenty in the brazilian media predicted doom, etc. Guess what? 3 matches already with mixed crowds, not a SINGLE incident in the mixed crowd. Yes, there were still incidents with visiting fans in the single crowd sectors. But in the mixed crowd sector? PEACE. Because those were exactly the CIVILIZED people that were kept away from stadiums because of the violence. Please, this is not off-topic despite not being related to Boca or River. This was a light at the end of a dark tunnel in Brazil and it shows it IS possible, and I hope even Boca and River can follow the example. I doubt no Boca supporter ever married a River supporter. I doubt there are not siblings where each one roots for a different team, among the 40 million Argentine inhabitants. Why should these people not be allowed to go together to a stadium, in peace, while the hooligans dominate the WHOLE stadium???? In fact, the EXAMPLE of peaceful coexistence of such fans may even, hopefully, affect the twisted violent minds of the barras-bravas/hooligans. ps: I posted some photos at the Conmebol forum Libertadores thread, but anyone can find photos on google or youtube searching for "grenal torcida mista"
you guys may or may not have just seen this, but Orion just put a group of players together to applaud the crowd. zero sarcasm. Sorry to you guys about what happened, but if they play the second half its an international disrgrace.
I do think getting to a point where crowds can mix would help in the long term, but specifically to this incident it still doesn't stop some barra brava idiots from attacking the players of their own accord. :/ Man I hate Orion. I can't see them not playing the second half though. Just put it in a neutral site with no fans. Boca should be banned from hosting or having any fans for Libertadores games for a while or something until they can prove they can protect the players.
Hay cosas que no se entienden. A veces cuando suceden estas cosas me da vergüenza ser hincha de Boca, me da vegüenza ser hincha de futbol, me da vergüenza ser Argentino, me da vergüenza ser hombre. Pero es importante recordar que eso que sucedió en la Bombonera anoche no es Boca, no es futbol, no es Argentina, no es ser hombre.
A disaster. Hope the River players are ok. Just a disaster I don't think the match should be finished we deserve to be thrown out and probably get a ban into the bargain. The idiots who did this must be very proud of themselves.
I disagree that Boca would "deserve" that outcome. However, I do side with your sentiments. If it is determined that's what would happen, as much as it sucks, I would not object. In the end, drastic measures need to be taken sometimes to deal with the worsts of us. A few idiots do not define what a much larger group is, although people who want to paint it that way will always make it seem so. Boca Juniors and fans are victims in this too.
I can see what you are saying. The players certainly don't deserve the punishment and the majority of legitimate fans don't either but we all suffer because of these idiots. Will it make the barras think twice about pulling some crazy stuff in the next big game,who knows but the authorities have to try to send some sort of message. Just a shame all round.
Of course the club deserves it for letting these animals into the stadium, and I say so as a Boca fan (as far as first division teams are concerned). Unfortunately clubs in Argentina enable the barras, give them tickets, allow them to profit from stadium-related business (venta de trapitos, parking). In return they get support from the barras in the club elections. Last night it was Boca but the same crap exists in all of the argentine clubs. I think the only way it goes away is if they privatize the clubs and then the profit motive (actually selling tickets rather than giving them away to thugs) will motivate them to get rid of the hooligan problem, as they did in Europe. If there was a will to end this, it could end. But between the government and the clubs, there is no will. They are all involved with the barras despite their hollow words to the contrary.
As a European I am unaware of hiw the system works in Argentina, but do you guys not have any sort of banning orders available? I find it incredibly hard to wrap my head around how a system which produces so many problems can be allowed to continue.
^^ In fact, some of the more prominent and violent members of Boca's barra that were barred from entering the stadium "coincidentally" had their bans lifted by the club just days before the match. There was a lot of talk about this leading to the game, which led to heavy criticism for Boca and its dirigentes before these incidents even occurred. I also heard that the guy that was seen tampering with the tunnel/fence on TV was actually on the blacklist and shouldn't have been allowed into the stadium in the first place, but I can't fully confirm that.
Of course this is very unfair to Boca, to its players and to its fans. But so be it. As big as our passion is, this is even bigger. This shit has to be stopped, this destructive hatred can't be allowed to continued, because it threatens not just our futbol, but the very fabric of our society.
As football fans it sucks it the game had to end like that. For you Boca fans, Boca was poised to be favorites to win the Copa libertadores. Sure, they had a really easy group but they dominated that group like an Elite team should and with a perfect record. Not just in the Copa but in the league you guys were playing great and still undefeated. El Vasco, despite his lack of respect off the field, has done an amazing job revitalizing this team after Bianchi's forgetful return. Now it's all ruined, all of it, thanks to some jackasses. I don't think Vasco is going to stay as coach. He is too good at his job to not be in Copas next season. Maybe a chance at Europe or International football? As a River fan, It would've been nice as a River fan to eliminate Boca given the circumstances that we were struggling to qualify to the round of 16 and facing our rivals who were having a better season than us. If we would've lost it would've been justified given the lack of a transfer market we had to reinforce our squad. The real Boca fans deserved better.
This entire incident saddens me. Do I believe the proper decision was made with regards to Boca being tossed out of the Copa? Absolutely. Do I think this is entirely the clubs fault? Absolutely not. This event was a complete systemic breakdown that has been teetering on the edge for a long long time. It was just a matter of time and it literally could've been any club in any division that took it over the top. On the upside, it really could have been much worse and hopefully because of this perhaps a worse incident will be avoided. The thing that pissed me off the most was how easily accessible the tunnel was to access. For this Boca as well as the police deserve so much blame. How exactly is that area not cordoned off or at least protected by a large shatter proof acrylic of sorts. I am not much of a Ponzio fan but it was ********ed up to see a grown man reduced to tears for an unexpected attack of that nature. I've been gassed on a few occasions for training and it wasn't that awful as I was expecting it but to be on the receiving end without any thought of it happening can be traumatic. I will always love my club and all its accomplishments but this is one incident I will always remember for the wrong reasons. For all the shit we sling back and forth between our forums, I would still throw a huge hug around any of you and buy you a drink if we were to meet. As only one fan I offer my apology.
I am really turned off to futbol by this whole thing. I was ready to accept the thrill of victory or the agony of defeat. I wasn't ready for this shit. I don't even want to think about futbol right now. But I think at some point as futbol fans and Boca fans we need to reconcile our love for the game with our repudiation of the violence. We need to be able to separate the sporting aspect from the criminal acts that ocurred. We can't blame futbol for this and we can't lose our passion for the game, because (to paraphrase a cliche) then the barras win. Yes, there's a lot of garbage in futbol, in Boca, in Argentina. But we shouldn't lose our love for futbol or for Boca anymore than we should lose our love for Argentina. I don't think anybody, from Boca or from River, wanted to see the game decided outside of the pitch. Unfortunately, given that due to the cowardly attack some of the River players were not in a condition to keep playing, the game had to be cancelled. It would have been unfair to ask River to continue playing at a disadvantage at the time or even a week later, due to the fact that some criminals who unfortunately identify themselves as fans of Boca and presumably as barras of Boca (as it appears to be based on the investigation) were responsible for the attack and for hurting River players. Now, this doesn't mean that River beat Boca on the field. Obviously they didn't beat Boca on the field, the game was up for grabs and it could have gone either way, just like the previous two games both were 0 - 0 at halftime and both were decided in the last few minutes, one in favor of Boca and one in favor of River. However, we can only speculate about what might have happened on the field, and it's really not that important to me at this point. The game had to be suspended, River had to be the one to advance, and I strongly think it was the right decision due to the irregularities. I think as fans of Boca we have to accept it as the right decision, forget about this year's Libertadores, and move on. And we need to unite as fans and as rivals to repudiate the violence.
Well technically we did, since it was 1-0 after 135 minutes... it's not like you guys were eliminated with the score in your favor, or even tied. But I get what you mean...
Yeah, lets just say it wasn't over. But I give you that the odds were in your favor. My thinking at the time was that the game was being played so tight that it was going to take a defensive mistake by either side to win it, just as we saw in the previous two games. And of course, one goal for Boca and we'd still have to go to penalties, but one goal for River and it would have been over. Oh well, we'll never know, but I have to say it's a bit therapeutic to talk about what might have happened on the field for a change, to think back a bit to what I was thinking the moments before the criminal act happened and changed everything.