Black Lives Matters and MLS

Discussion in 'MLS: General' started by BalanceUT, Jul 27, 2020.

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Where do you stand with respect to the Black Lives Matters movement and MLS's promotion of it?

Poll closed Aug 3, 2020.
  1. BLM is largely good for the USA and MLS's promotion and implementation is good

    23 vote(s)
    74.2%
  2. BLM is largely good for the USA and MLS's promotion is OK, but has problems of coercion of employees

    3 vote(s)
    9.7%
  3. BLM is largely good for the USA but MLS shouldn't be involved with promoting it

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  4. BLM is generally bad for the USA, therefore MLS's promotion is bad, too

    5 vote(s)
    16.1%
  5. Other, please write if meaningfully different from the above.

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  1. BalanceUT

    BalanceUT RSL and THFC!

    Oct 8, 2006
    Appalachia
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Only thing black folks want is to be included in "all."
     
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  2. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Note the lower case in the question.

    They were not asking about the "Black Lives Matter" movement.

    In many cases pols and right-wing groups that are using "All Lives Matter" are using it either because they don't understand the mission of BLM or because they are trying to actively undermine it.
     
  3. Quinn 33

    Quinn 33 Member+

    Apr 25, 2003
    Denver, CO
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I really don't want to wade into this conversation any further than I already have, but it gets tiresome hearing people blame whitey for all of the world's ills and that they're the only group of people that are required to inherit the sins of their ancestors (and as if all white skinned people in American history past and present were/are upper class slave owners). Race isn't a hivemind.

    Thats not to say there aren't problems in society that need to be addressed. There clearly are. I honestly think the real tragedy of all thats going on right now is I don't think any it is going to help fix any of the real problems that exist. Instead we're getting a lot of noise and saber rattling, and some people are even getting hurt, but nobody seems to be willing to have a reasonable conversation on diagnosing the root of the problems and how to go about fixing it.

    I'll just leave it at that, not that anybody these days really gives a shit about anyone's opinion but theirs.
     
  4. crookeddy

    crookeddy Member+

    Apr 27, 2004
    I mean government oppression communist style in modern times. America isn't perfect yet but we're very very far for oppression. The fact that I can go online and say ******** Trump is proof.
     
  5. JasonMa

    JasonMa Member+

    Mar 20, 2000
    Arvada, CO
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Get back to me when you can point out where I did that
     
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  6. JasonMa

    JasonMa Member+

    Mar 20, 2000
    Arvada, CO
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Though if you look at his tweet from last night, he'd apparently like to make that illegal (good luck with that).
     
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  7. crookeddy

    crookeddy Member+

    Apr 27, 2004
    Well, that's the point. He can say whatever the hell he wants, but as long as he fails to enact those kinds of laws freedom survives.
     
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  8. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    To put it at its simplest, what I want is for a cop to look at a black man and think "his life matters", and for that cop to consider reasonable non-life threatening means as a first resort.
     
  9. Quinn 33

    Quinn 33 Member+

    Apr 25, 2003
    Denver, CO
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Based on your response to the original quote, it sure seemed like you were insinuating that white male Americans are the one and only group of people have never seen oppression, and also suggesting everyone else not part of that group has.

    If thats not what you meant, than its an example of why I hate having these conversations online, because stuff that may be innocuous in intent can be misinterpreted.
     
  10. JasonMa

    JasonMa Member+

    Mar 20, 2000
    Arvada, CO
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It wasn't, but even if it was at no point did I "blame whitey" for that scenario.
     
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  11. Papin

    Papin BigSoccer Supporter

    Nov 19, 1998
    le côté obscur
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    OK fine, here is the actual wording in the survey:
    "Which statement is closest to your own: black lives matter or all lives matter? Or does neither statement reflect your point of view?"

    Where is the option to state that both statements are reflected in one's views? Is that the neither option? Why is Rasmussen presenting the statements as opposing views? They're implying that someone who states that Black lives matter believes that Black lives matter more than others. That is an inaccurate and misleading assumption and helps explain why so many Whites are having conniption fits at the mere mention that the lives of black people actually matter.
     
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  12. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think a problem we have in the US is that there's a hierarchy of life. We value some lives more than others and that's the basic problem.

    I read an article a few years ago, unfortunately I can't find it, where a journalist interviewed police in 4 or 5 European countries about the use of firearms.

    In all the countries the police were trained to value the life of a criminal as much as their own and to exhaust non-lethal methods before resorting to firearms.

    I'll continue to try and dig it up.
     
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  13. Honore de Ballsac

    Oct 28, 2005
    France.
    Though that might be a "sentient life" thing, not a particularly "US" thing.

    Many species make great sacrifices to spare the lives of kin. I doubt many vegans lose sleep over stepping on microbes. The vatican might suggest a vicar is nearer to God than I, and I have dominion over the skeeters. Most of us English speakers understand the appeal of/to what is "near and dear to us." I know I get upset if grandma takes ill, but can glaze over horrific statistics from far off places. That's normal - though probably a very unfortunate perceptual/conceptual limitation we need to address, I grant you.
     
  14. TheRealBilbo

    TheRealBilbo Member+

    Apr 5, 2016
    Talking about innocuous things... a lot of the oppression faced by minorities may seem innocuous. Things like redlining, no access to credit, lower wages for the same job, lack of grocery stores, proliferation of liquor stores/advertising in their neighborhoods, etc. These subtle slights that are pernicious.
     
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  15. PassionOfTheFoot

    Feb 12, 2002
    Incheon, South Korea
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    How do you know most cops dont already have this mentality?
     
  16. KCbus

    KCbus Moderator
    Staff Member

    United States
    Nov 26, 2000
    Reynoldsburg, OH
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Most DO. That's not good enough.

    As Chris Rock once said, "some jobs can't have bad apples." An airline can't say "most of our pilots are good at landing."
     
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  17. JasonMa

    JasonMa Member+

    Mar 20, 2000
    Arvada, CO
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Well, other than that Indian airline.

    (Too soon?)
     
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  18. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    A lot do to their credit but not all.
     
  19. Daniel from Montréal

    Aug 4, 2000
    Montréal
    Club:
    Montreal Impact
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    Why is this thread in MLS N&A?
     
  20. MPNumber9

    MPNumber9 Member+

    Oct 10, 2010
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I've been told the unidentified, secret federal agents (some of whom are mercenaries) stuffing peaceful protesters into unmarked vehicles for protesting extra-judicial police violence aren't literally wearing jackboots either, so y'know...that's a relief.
     
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  21. MPNumber9

    MPNumber9 Member+

    Oct 10, 2010
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The US has (at least) two extremely well-funded and well-armed, internally-facing law enforcement agencies: the DOJ (which includes the FBI and DEA, whom are both notorious for various reasons) was complemented by a second one, the DHS, in 2002 (which includes ICE and CBP -- don't need to say much about them these). We also have two spy agencies, the CIA and NSA (don't think I need to explain the notoriety of those groups, either). That's before you get into state and municipal police forces.

    The outcomes are the law of the instrument in effect: what do you expect to happen when you consistently devote so many resources and institutional manpower to the surveillance, investigation, suppression, apprehension and conviction of citizens? Police in the US kill more citizens than any other 1st world nation. We imprison and execute more of our citizens than any other 1st world nation. "Defund the police" is really about starting to dismantle this deadly machine.
     
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  22. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I mentioned in another thread that there are over 3,000 PDs in the US which is a nightmare when it comes to changing behaviors.

    In the rest of the world PDs tend to report into a single government office, such as the Home Secretary in England and Wales.

    In Germany the PDs report into the states, but there are only 16 of those, so it's pretty straightforward to share common best practices.

    But as you've pointed out, we don't even have a single national police department.
     
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  23. KCbus

    KCbus Moderator
    Staff Member

    United States
    Nov 26, 2000
    Reynoldsburg, OH
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think this is an absurd take.

    I mean if there was anything to this, how do you explain why we have endless funding for the military, but we always stay away from war?

    Oh, hold on a second...
     
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  24. Daniel from Montréal

    Aug 4, 2000
    Montréal
    Club:
    Montreal Impact
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cube_(film)
     
  25. Guinho

    Guinho Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes, bless their hearts
    Estonia
    May 27, 2001
    San Francisco, CA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    Simple. So many cops egregiously attack and sometimes kill black people *and the rest do absolutely nothing about it*. If they did think black people had equal value, those bad cops would be kicked out faster than you can say Jack Robinson. They dont, and when they do theyre quickly rehired
     
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