Caught this article, which was referenced . . . umm . . . on the front page of Bigsoccer.com. Interesting stuff. It comes up with a way to evaluate the best markets able to support additional major sports teams. What I like about it is that it considers MLS along with the Big 4 leagues. Under "methodology", it says: Woo-hoo! We're neither secondary professional nor minor! Anyhoo, it says 73 of the 179 markets can support an MLS team. If you play with the spreadsheet they let you download, it says the best market for a new MLS team is . . . Hartford, CT. That's from a purely economic standpoint--the market with the most personal income among its inhabitants, minus particular amounts for each team that market has in different sports. (The MLS amount is $16.1 billion; basically, a market needs $16.1 billion in personal income to support an MLS team. Other leagues' threshholds are higher.) You'll have to read the article to fully understand where it's coming from. The article also says Philadelphia is also prime for a new team, along with Portland, Oklahoma City, and Rochester (!!). In fact, it opines that Philly and Rochester should be at the top of the list, but not so much Portland. Furthermore, among the most overextended sports markets, you have Tampa Bay (gee, we could've told them that), Denver, Kansas City, Milwaukee, and Minneapolis-St Paul. And Salt Lake City barely makes the cut as a metro area that can support MLS. Their personal income was $57 billion, minus $38.4 billion for the NBA and $16.1 billion for MLS . . . total of $2.5 billion left over. Understand that this is an economic study that ignores subjective factors such as soccer culture or history. It's still food for thought.
Yeah, these things have been done to death over the past few years. MSNBC seem to recycle the same story every year. This discounts institutional support as Hartford, in particular, doesn't seem to have its act together for anything. A lot of rich people and a lot of corporate dollars would make you think that somebody would be trying to get a team there but, as the Hartford expansion thread shows, it's not cut-and-dried. CT Hammers are still ploughing on to get some form of USL soccer to the area but it's an uphill struggle.
I saw one of these threads maybe 1 or 2 years ago and according to this group it was Phoenix that was the most overextended market. This go-around it appears to be Tampa Bay (with Phoenix coming in second) so at least there is a consistency to it. I don't think too many people could argue with expansion into Philly or Rochester, but as is always mentioned it depends on a "committed owner, viable stadium solution and a soccer supporting fan base".
Hartford is the biggest market without any of those leagues, and the sports that would work best in this city are soccer and hockey. The NHL doesn't want us because they don't want to admit their own mistake, so MLS would be welcomed with open arms here. It would be the biggest thing in town, in a state where soccer is bigger than American football. The MLS business plan just doesn't work in our favour. We have the stadium, we have the fans, we just don't have the guy who wants to buy a team. If a team in Hartford could start small and work its way up, we'd be in MLS in no time, but I don't see anyone willing to pay the expansion fee.
Portland is a lot better option than it is given credit for. Remember how nuts they got when the usmnt played there? Also, University of Portland has educated the public on the game and the Portland fans, I believe, are informed fans. Especially with local players getting such great exposure (keller, milbrett)..... I personally would be very optimistic about Portland.
Correct me if i'm wrong but my understanding was the NHL left Hartford because the arena the whalers were playing in was utter rubbish and when the city/state pulled the plug on a new stadium the team moved. Again correct me if i'm wrong but didn't they play in a mall and had problems with a leaky roof or something. I have heard on the sports radio here in hockeyland that hartford is pushing for a new or relocated team. Since the Penguins are almost for sure moving, id say good luck to you, if not Winnipeg.
There was never a leak problem with the Hartford Civic Center, besides the roof collapse in 1978 anyway. The owner just got incredibly greedy and wanted the team to play in whichever city gave him the best arena deal. We offered a pretty good deal with a new arena, but it didn't serve his ego enough, and he moved to Raleigh. Too bad he didn't figure that they wouldn't like hockey!
That must be a lot of pressure though, I mean they're already first in the league and still near last in the NHL attendance. How much more do they have to win? Then again, there may be fans who won't support the carpetbagger Karmanos and didn't support that state's ploy to lure the team from the hockey fans in Hartford. I salute them and hope there are many. I'd never support a team that moved for no reason other than an owner's greed.
They are 22nd in the league in attendance, averaging over 15,000 - let it go. Connecticut didn't make it worth Karmonos' money to stay,so he picked up toys and left. It happened. However, maybe the Islanders will consider moving to Hartford. They are the worst in attendance. Hartford Islanders.... Nope, has to be Whale.
There is a serious proposal to move the NJ Nets basketball team to Brooklyn. At the centerpiece of this proposal is a new arena on Flatbush Ave in downtown Brooklyn, with new transit and residential development. To sweeten this deal, I think it would make sense to move the Islanders to Brooklyn and put them in that arena. That would intensify the Islanders/Rangers rivalry, would get the Isles out of a crappy lease in a crappy building, and would further justify this development. Anyone see a downside to this? I don't, but if there is one I'd like to know about it.
The problem with Hartford is that they just shelled out $100million to build Rentschler Field, UConn's new football stadium. I doubt they would be willing to pay for any kind of major new stadium after spending that kind of money.
I just don't want to see us begging somebody for a team. We're not some southern city trying to lure an NHL team just to get on the map. New Englanders don't have that mentality. If the NHL comes to Hartford, fine, if not there is plenty of hockey still here. To get back on topic, MLS has done nothing in Hartford, ever. Lots of soccer fans are here, but there is little interest in the league. Maybe if MLS came here and said you guys have a shot, somebody could step up. Or perhaps they don't want us, maybe they're going down the same path of destruction as the NHL and just going after big name cities without caring if people like the sport there. I'm not sure.
Hockey attendance in Raleigh will never compare to hockey attendance in Hartford. Your basketball, NASCAR, football, whatever attendance can be higher, but despite what Karmanos calls it, it's not true. Not to mention he didn't count 2,000 seats in Hartford because he didn't get full revenues from club seating, and wanted an excuse to leave. If Carolina was actually drawing better, how come nearly every hockey broadcaster, coach and players say the team should've stayed in Hartford. Eyes are more accurate than numbers on a sheet my friend.
I'll tell you. Zero. Granted the published capacity of the Hartford Civic Center was 14,660 - though the team managed to average 15,560 for 3 playoff games in 1989-90. But this will be the 3rd out of the last four seasons in which the Hurricanes have averaged over 15,000/game. And in one of those seasons the team finished 30th out of 30 teams. The Whalers topped 14k twice and 13k only three other times. This is the sixth season in Raleigh. It'll be the fourth over 13k. The two lowest seasons in Raleigh (12,400 and 12,330) are still higher than anything the Whalers put up from 91 through 96. Quit denegrating Raleigh-Durham. The team is doing just fine. I'm sorry you lost your team. It sucks. Blame Karamanos all you want, but leave North Carolina out of it. Hockey isn't rocket science, and after 9 years, people "get" it.
And yet my eyes don't count? I've averaged 25-30 games every season of the Hurricanes - including Greensboro. My eyes telling me there was a sellout on a Friday night opposite the Opening Ceremony of the Winter Olympics were wrong? My eyes telling me there was a sellout on Sunday afternoon - normally a sporting attendance graveyard - were wrong? Trying to create some paranoid nonsense that "hockey doesn't sell in the south" won't make the Whalers come back. Grow a pair and take responsibility for your home town. The Carolina Hurricanes are doing just fine. Eric Staal's gamewinner!
MLS doesn't work that way "Hey we might be interested in you" - but Garber did have nice things to say about Rentchler last July. Is there a money man? What about the group North... that wants to build the new arena? That's who should be looking at MLS.
You take it personally that a team in your city is failing. I could care less about anything in Hartford except that I did like the Whalers. It's strange to the civilized, but whatever. Did you even like hockey before Karmanos' team was lured by your state? And again, I'll take the hockey media and hockey world's opinions on support before I'll listen to you or Karmanos' numbers. Hockey is a religion here, and it's third-rate or worse in Raleigh, and that will never change.
This is my last response to AndyMead, don't want to destroy a thread because a man twice my age is acting too immature again.
Nice picture! You took that? Why was he so late in the shootout anyway? Stop by the Panic Hockey thread Andy. === Gioca - you have to let it go. Really, as a friend - let it go.
I have Eddie. But, I'll let MSNBC from yesterday speak for me. I mean really, despite the arguing, the truth comes out all the time: "Pardon the NHL for its sense of deja vu. Hockey called Hartford home until 1997, when the Whalers set sail for Raleigh, N.C., in one of the strangest franchise shifts ever. The Carolina Hurricanes, as they're now known, typically languish near the bottom of the attendance rankings. Hartford, meanwhile, offers a wide-open market with twice the needed income to maintain a team. Existing teams: None" http://www.bizjournals.com/specials/2006/0213/sports_expansion/3.html
"typically" - its a big league, they are 22nd. Sell out 83% of their seats. Washington is 29th and around 13,000 Islanders 30th - less than 12,000. Don't pick on the teams from the south, heck I love hockey, born and raised in New Orleans. As for MSNBC- that's an opinion, not a fact. The Whalers could never compete with Raleigh because the arenas don't compare. Plus Raleigh is a booming market, and a business friendly state, whereas Connecticut isn't. Okay now to rest.