Bill Clinton...voice of reason

Discussion in 'Politics & Current Events' started by Ian McCracken, Jul 9, 2005.

  1. Nanbawan

    Nanbawan Member

    Jun 11, 2004
    Haute Bretagne
    Club:
    Stade Rennais FC
    Nat'l Team:
    France
    I don't totally agree with everything he said there -not that everybody cares about my opinion but still- yet he gives me the impression of a guy who had more ideas within one speach than another guy in 5 years whose name I won't reveal in a last minute Christian gesture... ;)
     
  2. Barbara

    Barbara BigSoccer Supporter

    Apr 29, 2000
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yeah, that last point is enough to make me sit down and cry.
     
  3. dreamer

    dreamer Member

    Aug 4, 2004
    Clinton got elected in 1992 on anti-Bush votes. Maybe another Clinton will get elected this time in 2008, again on anti-Bush votes.
     
  4. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    1. Your numbers are ****************.
    2. It wasn't the Clinton's embargo, it was the world's embargo.
    3. It wasn't the world's fault, Iraq could have fed its children and given them medicine. But Saddam had to divert the money to his Swiss bank accounts and palace construction project.
     
  5. Scarecrow

    Scarecrow Red Card

    Feb 13, 2004
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    Where do these people come up with those **************** numbers?

    Guess some people missed the whole Oil for Food scandals that have been going on. Or that the UN Resolutions that started in 91 during HW Bush Administration. I was never a Clinton fan, so I am not coming to his defense here, but the issues with Iraq started in 90 with Iraq's invasion of Kuwait, a country the US has long protected. Hell during the Iraq-Iran war the US had to defend Kuwati tankers from both Iran and Iraq in the Gulf. Incidents regarding US protection of these tankers actually led to the Vincennes incident. Will have to find the link to this from another thread.

    Clinton did not waver on anything concerning Iraq that HW Bush put in place. I agree with those who feel there is some logic to W taking those policies to the next step with his invasion of Iraq. The problem is that he took the WMD line and was unable to back it up with real evidence. I really think if he had stuck to the policy that Saddam was a threat to the region and the World's oil, that he was still committing genocide, ala Serbia's regime, that support for this war would have remained higher then what it is now. Just my thoughts though.

    I said it before and will say it again, the US should have gone into Iraq in the mid 90's when the consenus was that Saddam was rebuilding his WMD's and when he was not complying with inspections. The war in Iraq should have happened earlier then it did. But hindsight is 20/20.
     
  6. verybdog

    verybdog New Member

    Jun 29, 2001
    Houyhnhnms
    1) maybe not "millions", but the number "million" wouldn't be too far off
    2) & 3) You are still in a denial state. Without US' strong demanding, UN wouldn't be doing this terrible thing.

    But that's really a shame - see below:



    Items Banned by the Sanctions

    agricultural pesticides
    all electrical equipment
    all other building materials ambulances
    baby food
    badminton rackets
    bandages
    blankets
    boots
    cannulas for intravenous drips catheters for babies
    children's bicycles
    children's clothes
    chlorine and other water
    purification chemicals
    cleaning agents
    cobalt sources for X-ray
    machines
    deodorants
    dialysis equipment
    disposable surgical gloves
    drugs for angina
    ECG monitors


    erasers
    glue for textbooks
    incubators
    leather material for shoes lipsticks
    medical gauze
    medical journals
    medical swabs
    medical syringes
    medication for epilepsy
    nail polish
    nasogastric tubes
    notebooks
    nylon cloth for filtering flour
    other adult clothes
    oxygen tents
    paper
    pencil sharpeners
    pencils
    ping-pong balls
    polyester & acrylic yarn rice rubber tubes
    school books
    school handicraft equipment
    shampoo
    shirts
    shoe laces
    shroud material
    soap
    sanitary towels
    specific granite shipments
    specific umbilical catheters
    steel plate stethoscopes
    suction catheters for blockages surgical instruments
    textile plant equipment
    thread for children's clothes
    tissues
    toilet paper
    tooth brushes
    toothpaste
    various other foodstuffs
    wool felt for thermal insulation
    X-ray equipment
    X-ray film

    source: The Scourging of Iraq : Sanctions, Law and Natural Justice by Geoff Simons, St. Martins Press

    http://www.geocities.com/iraqinfo/sanctions/sanctions.html
     
  7. Chris M.

    Chris M. Member+

    Jan 18, 2002
    Chicago

    And the poor suffered for years in South Africa due to sanctions. Was that wrong? And, the use of the word "millions" makes you something of a drama queen.
     
  8. argentine soccer fan

    Staff Member

    Jan 18, 2001
    San Francisco Bay Area
    Club:
    CA Boca Juniors
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    President Clinton is responsible for the death of millions of Iraqi children?

    Thanks for the revelation! I think it is imperative that you go right now to Iraq and tell the people over there that they have an innocent man going to trial! Tell them that it is a case of mistaken identity and they are trying the wrong man for crimes against humanity! Tell them that they should release Saddam Hussein immediately, and instead they should try the true villian, the true killer of millions of Iraqis, none other than our former president Bill Clinton!

    But go quick, before it is too late! Book your ticket to Iraq this very moment!Save the inocent Hussein, who was obviously framed. Iraq and the world will owe you a debt of gratitude. I see a Nobel Price in your future.
     
  9. verybdog

    verybdog New Member

    Jun 29, 2001
    Houyhnhnms
    Yes. Why not? At least indirectly. It's his policy of supporting of embargo led to the death of millions of Iraqi children. Of course he's responsible for that. There's no escape here.

    Just like current war in Iraq has killed 100,000+ Iraqis since the invasion, we can also say it's G. W. Bush who killed them, at least indectly, because it is his policy of invading Iraq led to such unfortunate event to happen. There's no escape here either.

    History doesn't forget.
     
  10. Chris M.

    Chris M. Member+

    Jan 18, 2002
    Chicago
    Fortunately, history is not as stupid as the author.
     
  11. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    We all know the UN is just a puppet for America.
     
  12. IntheNet

    IntheNet New Member

    Nov 5, 2002
    Northern Virginia
    Club:
    Blackburn Rovers FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yes...he failed to act! In Afghanistan, in Iraq, and elsewhere!

    And make a do-it-yourself blamer: President Clinton is responsible for ____________. Just fill-in and submit...works everytime! :)
     
  13. bigredfutbol

    bigredfutbol Moderator
    Staff Member

    Sep 5, 2000
    Woodbridge, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I hope that's a rhetorical question. ;)
     
  14. Revolt

    Revolt Member+

    Jun 16, 1999
    Davis, CA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    An interesting point. What if BushCo were more forthcoming about Iraq to the American public? Would public support remain higher today? Possibly. However, I think that BushCo had to play to 'war fervor' card to the hilt. I mean, who really gave a rat's ass if Saddam was the world's biggest a-hole? I just don't think there would have been enough public support to warrant launching a major war initiative given a.) Saddam would love to gas us w/ WMD given the chance, b.) Saddam was gassing and killing and dismembering his own, c.) Saddam would team up with AQ, probably, eventually, and d.) (BushCo saying with a straight face) Give democracy a chance.

    Still, being a lot more honest and sober about the need to take Saddam out (for what amounts to a bunch of sort-of, might-be pretty good reasons), we probably wouldn't be wondering if the bottom is dropping out on BushCo as it is today. BushCo cried, "Wolf"; I just don't see the public rising to 'war fervor' again - at least not with flimsy evidence.
     
  15. GRUNT

    GRUNT Member

    Feb 27, 2001
    Lake Oswego, OR
    Club:
    Portland Timbers
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Millions at the hands of Clinton, eh? LMAO! Why let facts get in the way of trying to score points?

    Aside from the fact that the UN imposed sanctions multi-laterally -- not the US alone -- feel free to post a source to back up your claim of "millions", and please be sure it doesn't use child mortality numbers provided by Hussein's government (take a guess where both UNESCO and UNICEF got their numbers). While you're at it, please explain why mortality rates increased in Shia-dominated areas, but not Sunni.
     
  16. verybdog

    verybdog New Member

    Jun 29, 2001
    Houyhnhnms
    Why not use numbers provided by his government? If someone said "don't use the number of US soldier casualties provided by DoD", what would you say?

    http://www.redcross.org/news/archives/2000/2-7-00.html

    Let's say they lied, it had only 50% of that number. Hey that's still more than half million deaths caused by Clinton's Iraq policy.

    As to the last question, isn't it obvious?
     
  17. Scarecrow

    Scarecrow Red Card

    Feb 13, 2004
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    Bush not being forthcoming with the reasons for the war is going to hurt the Reeps in the future. The longer we stay in Iraq will also factor into how the public perceives the war there as well.

    The war fever against Iraq was strongest in the early 90's and it was then that we should have fought this war. I think deep down Clinton knew, hell Bush I knew that we should have taken the issue with Saddam to its only conclusion then.

    Hopefully the US Public will learn from this and not let war fever get the better of us in the near future where I am sure we will hear the drums beating again.
     
  18. GRUNT

    GRUNT Member

    Feb 27, 2001
    Lake Oswego, OR
    Club:
    Portland Timbers
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    One of my few regrets on an otherwise fantastic Sunday is that I can't neg rep you again. Yes, I know it's relatively meaningless, but, since I can't hock a big slimy one in your lying face, it's the only satisfaction I can take.

    Actually, no, that's not quite accurate; I also enjoy exposing your lies and exageration publicly.

    So, nevermind. No complaints whatsoever.
     
  19. Attacking Minded

    Attacking Minded New Member

    Jun 22, 2002
    I'd rather respond to ITN.
     
  20. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I would say that the US DOD's death numbers have more integrity than Saddam's government.

    And I'm having a hard time believing anyone would really disagree with that.
     
  21. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    covered
     
  22. verybdog

    verybdog New Member

    Jun 29, 2001
    Houyhnhnms
    Lying? Is that what you gave me neg rep for? What did I lie? I didn't know you are so chidish. :rolleyes:

    Can someone help me give superdave a red nibble?
     
  23. verybdog

    verybdog New Member

    Jun 29, 2001
    Houyhnhnms
    No, I don't disagree with you. That's why I discounted their number 50%.

    Still, There were half of million Iraqi kids killed by the Clinton policy.
     
  24. Barbara

    Barbara BigSoccer Supporter

    Apr 29, 2000
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    How many times do you need to be told that it wasn't Clinton's policy?
     
  25. argentine soccer fan

    Staff Member

    Jan 18, 2001
    San Francisco Bay Area
    Club:
    CA Boca Juniors
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina

    What are you still doing here? Go to Iraq already!
     

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