Bluedaddy19...... - c.topfer 01 -Brazil..... - France 02 -France..... - Brazil 03 -Spain...... - Argentina 04 -Germany.... - Italy 05 -Argentina.. - Czech 06 -Czech...... - England 07 -Holland.... - Turkey 08 -Italy...... - Germany 09 -Turkey..... - Holland 10 -Mexico..... - Spain 11 -England.... - Portugal 12 -Portugal... - Cameroon 13 -USA........ - Ireland 14 -Ireland.... - USA 15 -Senegal.... - Columbia 16 -Sweden..... - Sweden 17 -Cameroon... - Senegal 18 -Denmark.... - Mexico 19 -Romania.... - S. Korea 20 -Croatia.... - Nigeria Your right it is subjective, but I could definetely quibble more over your rankings compared to c.topfer. IMO you overate Spain. What exactly have they done to deserve third? They are currently second in their UEFA qualification group behind Greece. England have only lost to Brazil in their last 18 competative games. Are top of their qualification group undefeated, and comprehensively beat Turkey, last time they played Mexico they beat them 4-0, last time they played Spain they beat them 3-0, and we all know about Germany.. You place Germany as high as fourth, true they got to the final of the world cup, but they over-performed. The only real quibble over c.topfer rankings is that he ranked France above Brazil. But then again that's debatable, even though they won last years World Cup, are they really better than France?
you could be right but i factor in that england has narrowly beat or tied several awful sides and lets not forget that they got whooped by australia - i think sven would agree that england are not playing up to their capacity i do realize that i favor spain more than most but in their defense they have gone through most of qualifying without many of their top defenders (puyol, navarro, helguera, curro torres, etc.) - i am taking my ranking as sort of a combo of the past results and a ncaa type quality ranking - IMO when it all shakes out, spain will be among the semifinalists at euro2004 i dont see how him having argentina 3rd is any better - they crashed out of WC02 and recently tied chile at home... not so impressive either, but somehow that is ok - of course they did beat up on libya and nigeria, who should be no where near anybody's top 20 as far as germany, i think you said it best: overPERFORMED - should they be punished for doing well now? - they have also been absolutely ravaged by injuries since WC02, probably more than any other team
1. Brazil -20 2. France-19 3. Italy-18 4. Argentina-17 5. Spain-16 6. Turkey - 15 7. Czech's- 14 8. England-13 9. Germany- 12 10. USA-11 11. Netherlands-10 12. Denmark-9 13. Cameroon-8 14. Portugal-7 15. Uruguay-6 16. Senegal-5 17. Nigeria-4 18. Wales-3 19. Ireland-2 20. South Korea-1
Brazil Argentina France Italy Germany Spain Netherlands England Turkey Czech Republic Portugal USA Mexico South Korea Camaroon Denmark Republic of Ireland Senegal Australia Colombia
I am right , seriously though 11th is a bit low. Sure they got whooped by Australia, a friendly match in a game that Sven played two sides like he always does in friendlies. Can't exactly base that result on anything. The several awful sides that England narrowly beat is part of UEFA qualification, the smaller sides are always hard to beat, Turkey struggled, Spain, Germany, Holland, Italy have definetely struggled more and you rank them higher than England. The fact is *England have won all their last eight games *England have been beaten once (Brazil) in last 18 competative games. (i.e the games that matter). I'd like to know what type of side England would be if they DO play to their full capacity. Because let's face it, you rate all the others on the capacity you think they can play (Spain like you admit), even though they have played just as worse as England and have had poorer results.
yes in hindsight #11 is probably too low for england and maybe i am hard on them because i expect a lot from them - frankly everytime they barely beat a macedonia or a lithuania, i am stunned and quite disappointed by them - still, when it comes right down to it... i would take most of those teams in my top 10 to beat england in a 1-off tomorrow - mexico is very VERY iffy on that, but i had to give them props for recent form (including a brazil win)
1. Brazil 2. France 3. Argentina 4. Mexico 5. Czech Republic 6. England 7. Turkey 8. Germany 9. Spain 10. Portugal 11. Italy 12. Netherlands 13. Denmark 14. South Korea 15. Ireland Republic 16. USA 17. Senegal 18. Cameroon 19. Japan 20. Sweden
LAST 18 COMPETATIVE GAMES ............PL| W| D| L|GF|GA| England.....18|13| 4| 1|35|13| Spain.......18|12| 4| 2|39|12| Italy.......18|11| 4| 3|30|12| Germany.....18|10| 6| 2|32|16| Holland, Czech won't be mentioned because they didn't even qualify for the World Cup. ENGLAND 2-0 (W) Liechtenstein... (ECQ) 2-1 (W) Macedonia....... (ECQ) 2-1 (W) Slovakia........ (ECQ) 2-0 (W) Turkey.......... (ECQ) 2-0 (W) Liechtenstein... (ECQ) 2-2 (D) Macedonia....... (ECQ) 2-1 (W) Slovakia........ (ECQ) 1-2 (L) Brazil.......... (WC) QF 3-0 (W) Denmark......... (WC) R2 0-0 (D) Nigeria......... (WC) R1 1-0 (W) Argentina....... (WC) R1 1-1 (D) Sweden.......... (WC) R1 2-2 (D) Greece.......... (WCQ) 2-0 (W) Albania......... (WCQ) 5-1 (W) Germany......... (WCQ) 2-0 (W) Greece.......... (WCQ) 3-1 (W) Albania......... (WCQ) 2-1 (W) Finland......... (WCQ) GERMANY 2-1 (W) Scotland........ (ECQ) 0-0 (D) Iceland......... (ECQ) 2-0 (W) Faroe Islands... (ECQ) 1-1 (D) Scotland........ (ECQ) 1-1 (D) Lithuania....... (ECQ) 2-1 (W) Faroe Islands... (ECQ) 2-0 (W) Lithuania....... (ECQ) 0-2 (L) Brazil.......... (WC) Final 1-0 (W) South Korea..... (WC) SF 1-0 (W) United States... (WC) QF 1-0 (W) Paraguay........ (WC) R2 8-0 (W) Saudi Arabia.... (WC) R1 2-0 (W) Cameroon........ (WC) R1 1-1 (D) Rep Of Ireland.. (WC) R1 4-1 (W) Ukraine......... (WCQ Play-off) 1-1 (D) Ukraine......... (WCQ Play-off) 2-2 (D) Finland......... (WCQ) 1-5 (L) England......... (WCQ) SPAIN 2-1 (W) Ukraine......... (ECQ) 0-0 (D) Northern Ireland (ECQ) 0-1 (L) Greece.......... (ECQ) 3-0 (W) Armenia......... (ECQ) 2-2 (D) Ukraine......... (ECQ) 3-0 (W) Northern Ireland (ECQ) 2-0 (W) Greece.......... (ECQ) 0-0 (L) South Korea..... (WC) QF 1-1 (W) Rep of Ireland.. (WC) R2 3-1 (W) Paraguay........ (WC) R1 3-2 (W) South Africa.... (WC) R1 3-1 (W) Slovenia........ (WC) R1 2-0 (W) Liechstenstein.. (WCQ) 4-0 (W) Austria......... (WCQ) 1-1 (D) Israel.......... (WCQ) 4-1 (W) Bosnia.......... (WCQ) 5-0 (W) Liechstenstein.. (WCQ) 1-1 (D) Austria......... (WCQ) ITALY 1-1 (D) Serbia.......... (ECQ) 4-0 (W) Wales........... (ECQ) 2-0 (W) Finland......... (ECQ) 2-0 (W) Finland......... (ECQ) 1-2 (L) Wales........... (ECQ) 1-1 (D) Serbia.......... (ECQ) 2-0 (W) Azerbaijan...... (ECQ) 1-2 (L) South Korea..... (WC) R2 1-1 (D) Mexico.......... (WC) R1 1-2 (L) Croatia......... (WC) R1 0-2 (W) Ecaudor......... (WC) R1 1-0 (W) Hungary......... (WCQ) 0-0 (D) Lithuania....... (WCQ) 2-1 (W) Georgia......... (WCQ) 4-0 (W) Lithuania....... (WCQ) 2-0 (W) Romania......... (WCQ) 2-0 (W) Georgia......... (WCQ) 3-0 (W) Romania......... (WCQ) No, not probably, it IS too low. Macedonia, yes, but big teams struggle to beat that team too, even Turkey. They don’t play 10 men behind the ball, they play 11. As for Lithuania, you are getting confused with Germany, and Lithuania are worse than Macedonia. Why aren't you stunned when Germany draw with Lithuania? Italy struggled to beat Lithuania, Spain struggled to beat Liechstenstein, got beat by Greece and drew with Northern Ireland, Italy got beat by Wales. Why aren't you stunned when this happens? There is a certain anti-english bias on Bigsoccer, that’s expected anyway (It is an American website afterall), and in your post too. There is no other explanation. But your not the only one, infact someone here ranked England lower than you. Last 18 competative games, not only have England got a better record than those teams, but have only lost to Brazil. Italy lost to South Korea, Croatia, and Wales Spain lost to Greece, and South Korea Germany lost to Brazil.....oh and er......England. People look at Germany and think....they got to the Final they're great. Look who they played in the world cup compared to England, Brazil beat both of them.
1. Brazil 2. France 3. Italy 4. Agentina 5. Germany 6. England 7. Cameroon 8. Spain 9. Czech Republic 10. Holland 11. USA 12. Portugal 13. Ireland 14. Turkey 15. Nigeria 16. Mexico 17. Denmark 18. Sweden 19. Costa Rica 20. Belgium
01. Brazil 02. Italy 03. England 04. France 05. Argentina 06. Spain 07. Turkey 08. Holland 09. Czech Republic 10. Germany 11. Cameroon 12. Portugal 13. Mexico 14. Chile 15. Nigeria 16. Peru 17. Denmark 18. Uruguai 19. Sweden 20. USA
1-yes i meant liechtenstein, pardon me 2-as i said germany has been ravaged by injuries to their top players - sue me, i factor that in some 3-now you are incorrect - i like england and root for them - fact remains that they have had a lot of 10 minutes performances this year in ECQ - without some late heroics here and there... they draw or lose to some of those minimites - i don't think any england fan i know has been happy with their play... happy with results, sure - IMO the 3 lions have looked quite ragged against crap teams and were bailed out by some moments of individual brilliance (rooney, owen, beckham) - in this case, the ranking suffers, perhaps unfairly which i admitted, from my high expectations of them
I wouldn't call having endless amount of shots on goal, hitting the bar several times and scoring two goals, strolling to victory......"struggling" You obviously haven't seen other teams in action, like I say, the other teams have performed the same as England. Name a game that England played that they won or drew due to late heroics?
RANKINGS UPDATED (last poster neovox) -------------------------|PTS| 01 - Brazil..............|745| 02 - France..............|700| 03 - Argentina...........|637| 04 - Italy...............|605| 05 - Spain...............|537| 06 - Czech Republic......|526| 07 - England.............|522| 08 - Netherlands.........|519| 09 - Germany.............|497| 10 - Turkey..............|442| ----------------------------- 11 - Portugal............|359| 12 - Mexico..............|248| 13 - Cameroon............|239| 14 - United States.......|233| 15 - Sweden..............|174| 16 - Denmark.............|168| 17 - Rep. of Ireland.....|152| 18 - Senegal.............|126| 19 - South Korea.........| 96| 20 - Nigeria.............| 74| ------------------------------ 21 - Columbia............| 71| 22 - Japan...............| 43| 23 - Uruguay.............| 41| 24 - Romania.............| 30| 25 - Belgium.............| 29| 26 - Croatia.............| 23| 27 - Greece..............| 17| 27 - Wales...............| 17| 29 - Paraguay............| 16| 30 - Russia..............| 14| 31 - Serbia..............| 13| 32 - Costa Rica..........| 10| 33 - Bulgaria............| .9| 34 - Australia...........| .7| 34 - Chile...............| .7| 36 - Peru................| .5| 37 - Iran................| .4| 38 - Norway..............| .3| 38 - Switzerland.........| .3| ------------------------------
i mean late like the final half hour, not stoppage time - by those standards... ummm just about all of them
01 - Brazil..........20 02 - France..........19 03 - Italy............18 04 - Argentina...........17 05 - Czech Republic..16 06 - Spain.........15 07 - Netherlands.....14 08 - Germany...........13 09 - Turkey..........12 10 - England........11 11 - Sweden.........10 12 - Portugal......... 9 13 - Cameroon........ 8 14 - Mexico......... 7 15 - Uruguay.......... 6 16 - Wales........... 5 17 - Rep of Ireland.. 4 18 - Belgium.......... 3 19 - Paraguay........ 2 20 - Greece........... 1
This "top 10" list is so far pretty decent. Anyway, few things are a bit strange: - Brazil over France (or even Argentina): Ppl should look better at it and get a clue. Still the same "Brazil overrated" *#*#*#*#. - Spain as top 5th: Way overrated.
1.Brazil 2.France 3.Turkey 4.Holland 5.Czech Republic 6.Argentina 7.Italy 8.Spain 9.Germany 10.England 11.Portugal 12.Romania 13.Denmark 14.Ireland 15.Iran 16.Sweden 17.Norway 18.Cameroon 19.Greece 20.South Korea
1-Brasil 2-France 3-Italy 4-England 5-Argentina 6-Spain 7-Germany 8-Turkey 9-Portugal 10-Holland 11-Czech Rep 12-Nigeria 13-Ireland 14-Croatia 15-Sweden 16-Greece 17-Russia 18-Mexico 19-USA 20-Belgium
Some of these rankings are so dumb that they shouldn't count, like the ones where Mexico is in the top 5 or where Peru and Chile are ranked.
RANKINGS UPDATED H = Highest Rank L = Lowest Rank (- = Not been ranked) PTS = Points -------------------------| H| L|PTS| 01 - Brazil..............| 1| 5|805| 02 - France..............| 1| 7|757| 03 - Argentina...........| 1|10|685| 04 - Italy...............| 2| -|655| 05 - Spain...............| 3|13|580| 06 - Czech Republic......| 1| -|568| 07 - England.............| 3|12|561| 07 - Netherlands.........| 2|13|561| 09 - Germany.............| 2|13|536| 10 - Turkey..............| 3| -|485| ----------------------------- 11 - Portugal............| 3| -|390| 12 - Mexico..............| 4| -|258| 13 - Cameroon............| 6| -|250| 14 - United States.......|10| -|235| 15 - Sweden..............|10| -|195| 16 - Denmark.............|12| -|176| 17 - Rep. of Ireland.....|10| -|171| 18 - Senegal.............|10| -|126| 19 - South Korea.........|12| -| 97| 20 - Nigeria.............|10| -| 83| ------------------------------ 21 - Columbia............|13| -| 71| 22 - Uruguay.............|14| -| 47| 23 - Japan...............|11| -| 43| 24 - Romania.............|12| -| 39| 25 - Belgium.............|12| -| 33| 26 - Croatia.............|16| -| 30| 27 - Greece..............|11| -| 25| 28 - Wales...............|16| -| 22| 29 - Russia..............|14| -| 18| 29 - Paraguay............|17| -| 18| 31 - Serbia..............|13| -| 13| 32 - Iran................|15| -| 10| 32 - Costa Rica..........|17| -| 10| 34 - Bulgaria............|17| -| .9| 35 - Chile...............|14| -| .7| 35 - Norway..............|17| -| .7| 35 - Australia...........|19| -| .7| 38 - Peru................|16| -| .5| 39 - Switzerland.........|17| -| .3| ------------------------------
1. Brazil 2. France 3 (tie). Czech Republic 3 (tie). Italy 5. England 6. Argentina 7. Spain 8. Turkey 9. Cameroon 10. Netherlands 11. Germany 12. USA 13. Mexico 14. Sweden 15. Portugal 16. Romania 17. Nigeria 18. Ireland 19. Denmark 20. Japan
Have you heard of a small tournament called the "World Cup". Most of the top teams take part in this tournament (those that don't had a chance to). For what it's worth, all the teams usually send their best players and put out full effort. The last three times this tournament has been played Brazil has finished 1st, 2nd and 1st. In that time no other team has even gotten to the finals twice. That to me says that the're the best team, and until someone proves otherwise it looks like most people argree.
Somebody should dig up the thread I started several months ago that was exactly the same as this one and compare the rankings now to what was voted then.
Ah, never mind, I found it: Comparison between now and July 2003 Now Prev 1 - Brazil.............. 1 2 - France.............. 2 3 - Argentina........... 3 4 - Italy............... 7 5 - Spain............... 4 6 - Czech Republic...... 10 7 - England............. 8 7 - Netherlands......... 5 9 - Germany............. 6 10 - Turkey............. 9 11 - Portugal............11 12 - Mexico..............13 13 - Cameroon............12 14 - United States.......14 15 - Sweden..............16 16 - Denmark.............17 17 - Rep. of Ireland.....15 18 - Senegal.............18 19 - South Korea.........20 20 - Nigeria.............19