I do like Koeman for 1994. Not a particularly brilliant performance by him, but he did captain Holland to the QFs of the WC where they got beat by the eventual champions, the Dutch were looking quite good. Consistent as always in La Liga championing with Barcelona and the final plus top scorer of the Champions. I can see his merit. Rijkaard in 1995 though, not as much. He sure was at high level, so were many of the players of that remarkable Ajax, as I write in the summary of the season. But without stepping out of Ajax and even defenders, what would you say it is that puts him ahead of Blind or de Boer in their performances that season?
Great example? @frasermc was spot on! Spooky how he read my mind. You mean like spitting in Voller's face, and grabbing the ball from Romario and refuse to hand the ball over deliberately to delay, when time is running out? yeah right, not so great after all. Check this video, he should have never done this whilst wearing Dutch NT jersey, a disgrace to Holland: and then this, from minute 5:10 onwards see what Rijjkaard does after Romario scored and PSV was one goal down: He may have been a dominant force but he was a jerk nonetheless, who'd cause a stir unnecessarily. @Pipiolo @leadleader @celito @frasermc@Once
@Once, we both overlooked it: what about Savicevic and Boban, instrumental in leading AC Milan to the CL title, including the destruction of Cruyff's Barcelona in the final (which would spell the end to that memorable Dream Team). @Once
In regards to the spitting incident, while Rikjaard definitely overreacted, Voeller was provoking the Dutch players from the start and to a big extent he had it coming. The departure of Rikjaard hurt Netherlands a lot more than the absence of Voeller did to Germany. @greatstriker11
That doesn't overly concern me (regarding withholding the ball) as it is an unfortunate occurence that is part and parcel of the game nowadays. Of course it is unsportsmanlike conduct but I wouldn't hate on a player for it.
Very true. Rijkaard was certainly provoked by Voller's attitude throughout the game but we surely cannot condone spitting regardless of the provocation involved...?
I feel Weah should be on the list, maybe instead of Vialli. What about Redondo, instrumental in breaking up Barcelona's hegemony in La Liga those years. @Once
It is basically the only time in his career when he did a 'Vinnie Jones' like act. He wasn't a Luis Suarez IMO. Ofc, it had a history too. For example, at euro88 the Netherlands scored a late winner - which was another bad tempered match There was a small incident after the late winner when the Germans deliberately injured Erwin Koeman. Erwin Koeman was subbed out as a result. At 14:04. The referee only handed out a free kick, not even a yellow card, while it could have been a straight red. It was a clear message and revenge foul. Maybe the message was: whatever you do, we own the referee, this country and the UEFA! We can do what we want. We have perks! Either way, whatever the message was intended to be, his brother Ronald Koeman reacted with the following infamous act (probably partially ignited by the injury of his brother): And that did not help for lowering down the temper. Rijkaard said some months later that he felt ashamed. "I made a mistake that evening. I feel ashamed. Voller was provocative in the game. Not with racist remarks but with feigning fouls. He made me nervous and at the second duel with him I received unfairly a yellow card. When I saw it appearing, I realized that I'd miss the following game anyway. I was angry, because Voller screwed me. I forgot myself and spitted him in the face. A mistake, a very big mistake, because it was better to commit a revenge foul in a next duel. After we both became sent off, nothing happened. A lot of nonsense has been stated about us but this is the story. Apart from this I have nothing against Voller and he has nothing against me I suppose. It are things that can happen in the heat of the battle." http://kranten.delpher.nl/nl/view/index?query=rijkaard voller gele&coll=ddd&image=ddd:010567402:mpeg21:a0241&page=1&maxperpage=10 It is important to note that claims concerning racist remarks by Voller surfaced after the match. Many words were written about this. But Rijkaard denied this months later when he spoke about the incident in detail for the first time. It was also said that both (sort of) fought with each other in the player's tunnel, with a FIFA official intervening and saying it happened. But Rijkaard also denied this and has always said that the FIFA official was wrong with his statements. As for withholding the ball in the Romario incident, here you can see that many Milan players were protecting the ball. Starting with the Milan goalkeeper. 2:13 The Romario goal was scored in the 65th minute, so it wasn't a particularly late goal. Not sure whether the game was delayed that much by these antics.
In 1993-94 Boban was good in Serie A and there is the Champions League win, but I am not convinced thats enough to have him among the very best of the season... Not sure he was that breathtaking and he had no part in the WC. On the other hand, according to the DbsCalcio rates Savicevic was aweful for Milan in Serie A that season. I would definitely not include him among the best of the season in 1993-94 despite the memorable win against Barcelona in the final of the Champions League. Both players missed quite a bit of games of Serie A on top of things. Then in 1994-95 they both missed a good share of the league again. Boban was mediocre with Milan in Serie A, but Savicevic did show remarkable form and scored 9 times in 19 appearances. However, his missed most of the Champoins League including the final. Great player though, so damn unlucky.
Redondo only played 23 out of 38 games in La Liga that season. Not sure his performance was so mesmerizing that despite missing practically half the season he can have a case. Not sure about Weah either. Very prolific in the Champions League but very much the opposite domestically. My impression is he got all the awards to a large extent becuase he followed up the said notable performance in CL with an outstanding season in Serie A, very consistent and scoring that wonder goal of his. Could be wrong.
Agree so ... Boban's best season was previous year 1992-94 , but not particularly as great as Savicevic, Signori, Baggio, Gullit Maldini Baresi Zenga ...
I agree, Weah was pretty average in the domestic season but awesome in the Champions League, especially the big games against Bayern Munich and Barcelona. I know the reason he won all the awards was the start of the following season with Milan but the form he was in with PSG he would not have been far off at all and given there was no other clear stand out player could have won anyway.
Don't get me wrong, the Ballon d'or has its floors but more often than not was a better choice than the old FIFA award. Looking back, 91- Matthaus only won as there was no award in 90, Papin was clearly the best in 91. 2000 was a far choice for Zidane over Figo as virtually nothing between them but I favoured Figo who won the Ballon d'or. 2001 FIFA award was only given to Figo as he should have probably got it in 2000, he was no where near as good in 2001 as the previous year. I agree that Owen in 2001 was a very debatable decision for Ballon d'or. I am certain had he not scored a hat trick against Germany he would have not won the award, Raul in second place was more deserving, but I still don't agree with FIFA and Figo that year. Zidane winning in 2003 was a pure popularity vote, Nedved was without doubt better that season and deserved the ballon d'or. 2004 Sheva versus Ronaldinho, both have strong arguements so not much to choose. The key thing is looking at the top tens over time some really bizarre choices over the the years for players who have missed much of the year or not done very much.
Well I understood your point, and my point was exactly that no PRIZE was kinda SAINT- in the making. - I might say often WPOY and ballon dor was like a compensation for each other (in old days last 12years) Mathauss was "compensated" in 91 for 90 absent. Figo got ballon Dor 2000, and Zidane won WPOY ( I think it's FAIR and BEST that way since no one clearly outshone another ) However Figo also won 2001 WPOY (for his lost to Zidane in 2000 ?) and OWEN from nowhere winning the balllon Dor there (for waht???) no clear explanation right? Now, If you complain about Zidane vs Nedved 2003 WPOY, then you should also complain Ballon Dor of 2010 (Messi vs Sneijder) or Ribery vs CR7/Messi last year 2013? - similar case ... So no justice for Sneijder, Ribery ... (and potentially for otehr new star coming) that is even WORSE then before (with two different prizes) =========================================== My point: I prefer two different prizes (for two different criteria) in case of no clear choices: 1- WPOY; for true best talented player of that year (like Zidane 03, Messi10, CR13) 2- Ballon Dor : for best player with best achievement that year (like Nedved03, Sneijder10 and Ribery 13)
Sorry for another reply but market size of course matters too. This can be applied to any sport. http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/05/magazine/NBA-in-China.html?pagewanted=all There you can read how eager the 'basketball community' is in increasing the strength of Chinese basketball, because of the full market potential it has. As you can read it involves coaches and referee training (to get them on par with state-of-the-art standards), advises in facility building and setting up competitions and/or connect them with the existing competitors (because only competition makes players better...) and some other forms of knowledge sharing. They keep on trying (already under Mao Zedong it was China's most popular team sport). Basically the same idea also applies to football; that's also a major reason why a country like Brazil/England whatever will never fall off the map (cf. at the period the English league wasn't that good they made sure the access & road to the Champions League was not too far away). The access to competition (= the chance to actually compete on a frequent rate against peers - e.g. UCL or youth tournaments) is influenced by market demands as well.
Why was Figo better in 2000 as in 2001? Can someone explain? Funnily, in 2000 he won no team accolades.
There's logic to the market size theory. However, a country like the USA with over 300 million habitants and having been in "soccer" for as long as we can remember never managed to exploit and seize the market size factor. And that comes from a country with a substantial Latin American minority and unmatchable spending power to invest in top class football infrastructure (stadiums, media coverage etc). And even more so after having hosted the most watched WC ever. And still the US hasn't exploited "market size"? It is a very odd event in history of football, in case "market size" is a legit and true factor affecting production of quality of players. Sorry to say this Puck, but the idea of market size has some uncertainties in it. I believe market size is a factor to take into account but we seem to forget another factor which has an even stronger consequence then "market size", that is "culture"! Without "Football culture" a market size will have little to no effect on production of a country's players quality. And do not take the effect of "culture" for granted Puck. We both (Dutchmen) know well how much we Dutch breath football since childhood. We're small nation of 16 million only. But we have reached WC finals 3 times already. And market size has got nothing to do with Dutch football quality of players, but "culture" has it.
rightly so Look here in this thread we are talking of player performance (pure) not by popularity nor by accolades (part of media and popularity) Figo 2000 was a bit more flashy and especially well Euro2000. In 2001, he was still great but notthing much, without big games ... He got a team functioning great with excellent form in Raul besides. The only good thing is he proven great with another team. I felt rivaldo should be the best player 2001 - arguably (no one stood out clear in that year though)
The USA is a bit similar: everyone is 'helping' them to become stronger and bigger. But indeed, they don't have the 'culture' historically speaking.
His club form for Barcelona was at its peak that season, I watched all of those three season at Figo was his best and 99-00 was definitely his best season which is why he won the Ballon d'or as opposed to 2001 where he finished 6th.
Okay, clearly may have been a little strong, but he was definitely above Matthaus, had Papin not won next should have been Prosinecki or Savicevc. Also don't say I am being anti Matthaus as I said he deserved top place in 1990 but you seemed to disagree with that too.