Best technique

Discussion in 'Players & Legends' started by Alessandro10, Jan 30, 2019.

  1. Alessandro10

    Alessandro10 Member

    Dec 6, 2010
    Club:
    Juventus FC
    Who do you rate as the best technical players ever? Maradona is number 1 for me then(in no particular order): Zidane, Cassano,Bergkamp, Baggio, Ronaldinho. These IMO belong in a top 10 technical players ever.
     
  2. carlito86

    carlito86 Member+

    Jan 11, 2016
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Cassano was GOAT in ball control but there is MUCH more to being a great technical player than just being able to trap the ball

    Tier 1
    Maradona
    Zico
    Bergkamp
    Messi
    Enzo francescoli
    Stojkovic

    Tier 2
    Cruyff
    Ronaldinho
    Cristiano Ronaldo
    Ronaldo de Lima
    Savecivic
    Zinedine Zidane
    Cassano
    Rivelino
    George best
    Iniesta
    Pelé
    Baggio
    Neymar
    Hagi
     
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  3. carlito86

    carlito86 Member+

    Jan 11, 2016
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    I inexplicably forgot Romario here who no doubt warrants an inclusion for his elite trapping technique and GOAT finishing
     
  4. Alessandro10

    Alessandro10 Member

    Dec 6, 2010
    Club:
    Juventus FC
    Zidane in the first tier He could do everything with the ball. Ibrahimovic also should be in one of your tiers.
     
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  5. Alessandro10

    Alessandro10 Member

    Dec 6, 2010
    Club:
    Juventus FC
    Im curios why you place Stojkovic and Zico above Ronaldinho, Zidane and Baggio.
     
  6. Tropeiro

    Tropeiro Member

    Jun 1, 2018
    Ronaldinho is first tier easily.
     
  7. carlito86

    carlito86 Member+

    Jan 11, 2016
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    #7 carlito86, Feb 8, 2019
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2019

    This guy wasnt that much faster than a young riquelme but easily 3x the dribbler


    Re Zico he is one of the top 5 skilled players of all time along with Messi/Cruyff/Pele/maradona
    I’m talking about his skillset(playmaking/ball distribution/scoring/dribbling)and not about circus tricks a la R9,CR,Ronaldinho etc

    With pace he’d most likely be a direct challenger for Peles crown
    and potentially even better
    (His career achievement did not match his talent IMO hence he would receive a lower all time ranking)
     
  8. carlito86

    carlito86 Member+

    Jan 11, 2016
    Club:
    Real Madrid
  9. Tropeiro

    Tropeiro Member

    Jun 1, 2018
    Most of Zico's carrer was done in a considered subpar competition in the savage South American continent, even his Libertadores title and the Intercontinental is not enough to be considered a good achviement in the eyes of most Europeans now.

    His peak is just in foreign competition (even if the Brazilian League was much stronger than the actual, still ranked nowadays as the 6º league by SPI Index - and depth in terms of raw talent than most of other countries/national league), grouping this fact with other facts like of: he clearly underachived his original expectation with the Brazilian NT (pretty much the same of all other Brazilian stars), he didn't moved to Italy in 1980 (Flamengo held him for a long time with the biggest wages they could paid and Zico loved Flamengo) and that when he goes to Italy, most of because of 1982 WC failure, with already 30 years at end/slight past of the peak of most footballers at that time, he goes to Udinese (thanks Edinho!) a really small/uncompetitive club (different than Napoli before than Maradona that was still ranked as 4º according ELO), Udinese was the 12º of 16 before Zico.

    A series of bad choices, perceived clearly now, that make him stand out from a top20-30 of all time for most casual and even specialist Football fans of nowadays. But hey nobody is considered the best talent, best Brazilian player for 10 years (a country with a lot of people, that most of people likes/practices football, that is ranked in the 1-3º position since 1950 etc) without quality or being a fraud, he was bigger than Ronaldo, Romário, Neymar and much bigger than the ones like Rivaldo, Kaka and Ronaldinho etc.. a very good passer from all ranges, angles and specially the final ball, much more direct than most Ronaldinhos/Neymares and an a great goalscorer threat that could dribble just as fine, being more athletic in the middle of the 70 than in the early 80's.

    If Zico started his career today he would have made a career in Real Madrid, Barcelona, Bayern, Juventus somewhere like that and would certainly have played much more Champions League and his legacy would be much greater than it was. If he had gone to Juventus, or even to Rome, in the early 80's this would have already been.

    I think was very talented (more than the ones like Platini, Rummenigge etc), but the situation here might be more what he could have been in the place of what he really was, at least for non-Brazilians.
     
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  10. carlito86

    carlito86 Member+

    Jan 11, 2016
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    #10 carlito86, Feb 16, 2019
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2019
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  11. Alessandro10

    Alessandro10 Member

    Dec 6, 2010
    Club:
    Juventus FC
    How would you compare Zico's technique to Francescoli's or Stojkovic's?
     
  12. carlito86

    carlito86 Member+

    Jan 11, 2016
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    The difference between the most technical players ever is small IMHO
    I was thinking to put maradona in his own tier and than francescoli/bergkamp etc in the next.
    At the end of the day the tier system I have utilised is very subjective and non scientific

    I cannot prove for example bergkamps first touch was better than Zidane
    Zico for me was one of the best passers,FK takers,dribblers and finishers ever
    He would literally make top 20 in every single category I’ve mentioned
    A most technical players ranking without him close to the very top is lacking credibility

    Neymars sometimes questionable decision making and general immaturity is a reason not to have him in such a ranking
    only because I like his footballing style did I ignore this
    Stojkovic was in his era one of the top 3 playmakers alongside Hagi and Micheal laudrup
    Just a player who oozed technical ability in spades
    The close control dribbling,first touch,array of passes etc
    Irregardless of the fact that he spent substantial parts of his career in relative obscurity,he showed more than enough for the NT and red star Belgrade to warrant a mention here
     
  13. Alessandro10

    Alessandro10 Member

    Dec 6, 2010
    Club:
    Juventus FC
    Zico's pasing, vision, shooting is maybe better then Francescoli's, but in ball control it's really hard to separate them.
     
  14. Alessandro10

    Alessandro10 Member

    Dec 6, 2010
    Club:
    Juventus FC
    Baggio in the first tier no doubt.
     
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  15. Alessandro10

    Alessandro10 Member

    Dec 6, 2010
    Club:
    Juventus FC
    Where would you guys place Recoba in the all time technique?
     
  16. carlito86

    carlito86 Member+

    Jan 11, 2016
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    #16 carlito86, Mar 8, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2019
     
  17. carlito86

    carlito86 Member+

    Jan 11, 2016
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    #17 carlito86, Mar 23, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2019
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  18. Edhardy

    Edhardy Member+

    Sep 4, 2013
    Nairobi, Kenya
    Club:
    Juventus FC
    Underrated (relatively) technique. Probably to play to the narrative of him being a product of sheer hardwork, and Messi being naturally gifted.
     
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  19. Bavarian14

    Bavarian14 Member

    Bayern München
    Jun 1, 2017
    Probably because he does those things less often in the later years
     
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  20. Bavarian14

    Bavarian14 Member

    Bayern München
    Jun 1, 2017

    How to spam elastico :)
     
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  21. Edhardy

    Edhardy Member+

    Sep 4, 2013
    Nairobi, Kenya
    Club:
    Juventus FC
    True. I think @PuckVanHeel has mentioned how at Man Utd they focused more on his technique compared to the years at Madrid. His touch is still excellent though, and his shot technique is also top notch.
     
  22. Alessandro10

    Alessandro10 Member

    Dec 6, 2010
    Club:
    Juventus FC
    Where would you place Isco in an all time technique list? He has a fantastic touch Would you put him over Messi?
     
  23. carlito86

    carlito86 Member+

    Jan 11, 2016
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    #23 carlito86, May 20, 2019
    Last edited: May 20, 2019
    Short answer is no

    First touch is part of technical ability but not the be all and end all
    This is why wild claims are made as cassano is as good as maradona technically(no in fact not close)

    Technique is an umbrella term and includes the following

    Dribbling
    Close control

    (garrincha,messi,maradona,george best,hazard,iniesta,littbarski)

    Skills
    (Rivelino,ronaldinho,R9,CR,maradona,magico gonzalez,neymar)


    Playmaking
    Short passes/Through balls

    (Micheal laudrup,xavi,zico,messi,stojkovic etc)

    Long balls

    (netzer,platini,maradona,hoddle)

    1 touch,flicks,outside of the foot
    (Cruyff,ronaldinho,totti,maradona)


    Ball control/trapping

    (Maradona,bergkamp,cassano,francescoli,zidane etc)


    Finishing
    Shot placement
    (Baggio,bergkamp,romario,van basten,pele)

    FKs
    (Juninho,zico)

    Isco wasnt leading in any categories (not even 1) to be mentioned as a technically specialist let alone be compared to messi
     
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  24. Edhardy

    Edhardy Member+

    Sep 4, 2013
    Nairobi, Kenya
    Club:
    Juventus FC
    While I wouldn't go as far as saying Cassano is Maradona tier in terms of technique, he really isn't far off. His touch is at that level, his close control when dribbling were top notch, his passing especially later on (Sampdoria, Milan, Inter) were again top tier. What he lacked was the physical side (which is underrated when we talk of the technicians) and clearly he didn't apply himself much, his finishing hardly ever improved down the years.

    Isco is another whose touch is just about as good as it gets, his close control when running with the ball (albeit relatively slowly) is top shelf, and his ball protection is great. His "skills" also appear to me more fluid & natural than some of the guys you mentioned.
    I think he's like that boxer who fell in love with his power and didn't develop much else. He hasn't developed much beyond that ridiculously good first touch and his ball protection plus skills. He even seems to annoy his teammates with how long he holds the ball.
     
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  25. carlito86

    carlito86 Member+

    Jan 11, 2016
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    #25 carlito86, May 20, 2019
    Last edited: May 20, 2019
    In grassroots football, the basic techniques can be divided into four categories:

    • Controlling the ball
    • Running with the ball
    • Passing the ball
    • Shooting
    https://grassroots.fifa.com/en/for-...he-basic-techniques/the-basic-techniques.html

    Even if we was to say isco was GOAT in ball control/ball retention(and he is not maybe one of the best of his era but thats it)
    There were maybe 500 players better than him at passing and maybe 10,000 better at shooting

    The same is applicable to cassano who did at least demonstrate GOAT level ball control
    Being "top tier" in some of the other categories you listed isnt the same as being the best ever(top 5)

    For example
    CR is the jack of all trades technically
    From a technical perspective he was able to do everything to a world class standard during his prime but he wasnt amongst the best ever in any single category(even if we say he was in "ball skills" that is a sub category,
    no-one was ever good enough at ball skills that they were able to dribble with the same frequency as a close control expert

    Not even R9(and like Cristiano was a combination of both physical and technical)

    To be a technical genius you have to be amongst the best ever in at least 2 categories
    Messi(close control dribbling and passing-
    in his physical prime 09-13 although being a more productive and dangerous player( at least from a individual standpoint)he wasnt yet a technical genius
    He was maybe the best through baller in the world but this is only 1 subcategory of playmaking as a whole
    Not until he improved his long passing could we say he was a legendary passing specialist)

    Bergkamp(shot technique,ball control)
    Etc

    Maradona is a master in 3 out of 4(excluding finishing)
    The only player ive seen who wouldve been a true rival to maradona technically is piksi

    (Popped up on my youtube feed-just when you think youve seen it all)

    possibly hagi too and leadleader makes a few good points regarding his technical skillset

    the notable difference here being maradona was a greater athlete than piksi( in particular) and this is where i can agree when you say the physical side of the game is underrated in discussions where we compare technicians who were similar(not cassano let alone isco who werent at that level)
     
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