Romário - superb technique and physicality, speed and accuracy of execution in the PK area, great link-up play also. One of the most deadliest stikers of all time. If you had some good ball progressors already in Pelé, Neymar and Garrincha, then Romário would be a very deadly option too for the first XI, more positional. ------------------------ Romário ------------------------- Ronaldinho --------- Zico ---------------- Jairzinho Second XI. Romário 1993-1994 Ronaldinho 2005-2006 Jairzinho 1970 Zico 1979-1982
Fact vs fiction Separating nostalgia from the facts Match Winning goals Top 5 European leagues Ferenc puskas La liga 50 match winning goals in 180 league appearances Scored the match winner in 28% of games participated in Cristiano ronaldo Premier league,La liga and Serie A 146 match winning goals in 567 league appearences Scored match winner in 26% of league games participated in Lionel Messi La liga 120 match winning goals in 455 league appearences Scored match winner in 26% of league matches participated in Marco van basten Serie A 36 match winning goals in 147 league appearances Scored the match winner in 24% of matches participated in Hugo Sanchez La liga 81 match winning goals in 347 league appearences Scored the match winner in 23% of matches participated in Kylian Mbappe Ligue 1 31 match winning goals in 134 league appearances Scored the match winner in 23% of matches participated in Zlatan Ibrahimovic Serie A,La liga,ligue 1 and the English premier league 96 match winning goals in 430 league appearances Scored the match winner in 22% of matches participated in Gerd Muller Bundesliga 91 winning goals in 427 league appearances Scored the match winning goal in 21% of games participated in Robert lewandowski Bundesliga 68 match winning goals in 338 league appearances Scored the match winner in 20% of games participated in Ronaldo nazario La liga and Serie A 46 match winning goals in 232 league appearances Scored the match winner in 20% of games participated in Ruud Van nistelrooy Premier league,La liga,bundesliga 56 match winning goals in 282 league appearances Scored the match winner in 20% of games participated in Some honourable mentions Luis Suarez La liga and premier league 61 match winning goals in 316 league appearances Scored the match winner in 19% of league games participated in Alfredo di Stefano La liga 56 match winning goals in 329 league appearances Scored the game winner in 17% of league matches participated in Gonzalo Higuain La liga,Serie A and the premier league 80 match winning goals in 448 league appearances Scored the game winner in 18% of league matches participated in Gunnar Nordhal Serie A 51 game winning goals in 291 league appearances Scored the game winner in 17% of matches participated in ATG clutch league players Puskas Cristiano Messi Elite/legendary/'supreme world class' clutch league scorers Marco Van basten Zlatan ibrahimovic Gerd Muller Robert lewandowski Kylian Mbappe(will see if he continues along this trajectory) Hugo Sanchez Ronaldo nazario Ruud van nistelrooy World class Luis Alberto Suarez Gunnar nordhal Alfredo di Stefano Gonzalo higuain Jose altafini There is some gaping holes in the data for jimmy greaves so I will not include him although I have no doubt he would be in the 2nd or 3rd tier of top 5 european league elite scorers
Fact vs. Fiction : "Match Winning Goals" is, when applied to games that are not exactly 1-0 victories, an irrational premise with no basis in reality. Match winning goals is an irrational premise, and for self-evidently obvious reasons as well, because the premise only logically applies to 1-0 victories, when the vast majority of games (especially the league games) are actually not 1-0 victories. Very simple: if Ronaldo scores the 2-1 goal, and Benzema scores the 1-1 goal, why is Ronaldo's goal more important?? Real Madrid needed both Ronaldo's goal and Benzema's goal in order to win the game, so in what universe does it make logical sense to define the so-called "match winning goal" as the more important goal?? At any rate, Football is fundamentally a team sport, which is why the 1-1 goal and the 2-1 goal are of equal value to the club that won the game. It is arbitrary and a farce to define the 2-1 goal as more important or more valuable than the 1-1 goal; but then again, this is nothing more than typical of Cristiano Ronaldo fans, to invent these arguments that make no sense but somehow help advance Ronaldo's inflated legacy as an equal to the Peles, Cruyffs, Maradonas, Messis, of history. With all of the above sentiments in mind, Cristiano Ronaldo fans (like, for example, my dear old friend Carlito in the above post) are by far the most aggressive fans of all time, in terms of the irrational arguments that they will invent and re-invent as time goes by, in their relentless effort to further inflate Ronaldo's standing as an all timer; at the current pace Cristiano Ronaldo will almost certainly go down in history as the best European player of all time, which by all means would be an insult to the history of this sport, and an insult to actual genius players like Johan Cruyff and Michel Platini, both massively underrated players, and both significantly better players than Cristiano Ronaldo. Johan Cruyff and Michel Platini both have that immediate aesthetic characteristic that the great geniuses tend to have; when you watch Cruyff at World Cup 1974, or Platini at Euro 1984, the legendary composer Mozart comes to mind, because these players are not just exceptional athletes and extraordinary players; they transcend the sport in a way that only true genius can. Of course, in the modern game, the premise of "aesthetic" is automatically and thoughtlessly disregarded as pointless and arbitrary, as opposed to what it really is, which is a traditional side-effect of true genius; that is, evidence of what is immediately self-evident to the eye, when that elusive or vague talent that is being intuitively perceived can actually be demonstrated on the basis of numbers, valid statistics, and actual team results. Cristiano Ronaldo has always lacked that elusive "born with it" mystique of genius, as was always immediately palpable, purely by looking at the sheer quantity of exaggerated, clunky, flamboyant, repertoire of tricks that Ronaldo instinctively felt he needed to use as show-boating gimmicks, because he always knew he lacked the ability to be spectacular without literally visually screaming it at every eye watching him as he did his 5 step-overs in record time to do nothing practical at all most of the time. Match Winning Goals By Ronaldo Champions League KO Stage : NA / Barcelona 2008 Semi Final First Leg (1) NA / Barcelona 2008 Semi Final Second Leg (2) NA / Chelsea 2008 Final (3) NA / Inter Milan 2009 Round of 16 First Leg (4) NA / Inter Milan 2009 Round of 16 Second Leg (5) NA / Barcelona 2009 Final (6) NA / Olympique Lyon 2010 Round of 16 First Leg (7) NA / Olympique Lyon 2010 Round of 16 Second Leg (8) NA / Barcelona 2011 Semi Final First Leg (9) NA / Barcelona 2011 Semi Final Second Leg (10) NA / Bayern Munich 2012 Semi Final First Leg (11) NA / Bayern Munich 2012 Semi Final Second Leg (12) NA / Manchester United 2013 Round of 16 First Leg (13) 1 / Manchester United 2013 Round of 16 Second Leg (14) NA / Borussia Dortmund 2013 Semi Final First Leg (15) NA / Borussia Dortmund 2013 Semi Final Second Leg (16) 2 / Borussia Dortmund 2014 Quarter Final First Leg (17) NA / Bayern Munich 2014 Semi Final First Leg (18) NA / Bayern Munich 2014 Semi Final Second Leg (19) NA / Atletico Madrid 2014 Final (20) NA / Atletico Madrid 2015 Quarter Final First Leg (21) NA / Atletico Madrid 2015 Quarter Final Second Leg (22) NA / Juventus 2015 Semi Final First Leg (23) NA / Juventus 2015 Semi Final Second Leg (24) NA / Wolfsburg 2016 Quarter Finals First Leg (25) 3 / Wolfsburg 2016 Quarter Finals Second Leg (26) NA / Manchester City 2016 Semi Finals Second Leg (27) NA / Atletico Madrid 2016 Final (28) 4 / Bayern Munich 2017 Quarter Finals First Leg (29) NA / Bayern Munich 2017 Quarter Finals Second Leg (30) NA / Atletico Madrid 2017 Semi Finals First Leg (31) NA / Atletico Madrid 2017 Semi Finals Second Leg (32) NA / Juventus 2017 Final (33) NA / Juventus 2018 Quarter Final First Leg (34) NA / Juventus 2018 Quarter Final Second Leg (35) NA / Bayern Munich 2018 Semi Final First Leg (36) NA / Bayern Munich 2018 Semi Final Second Leg (37) NA / Liverpool 2018 Final (38) NA / Atletico Madrid 2019 Round of 16 (39) 5 / Atletico Madrid 2019 Round of 16 (40) NA / Ajax 2019 Quarter Finals First Leg (41) NA / Ajax 2019 Quarter Finals Second Leg (42) NA / Olympique Lyon 2020 Round of 16 (43) NA / Olympique Lyon 2020 Round of 16 (44) The record of 5 match winning goals after 44 games, is absolutely nothing out of the ordinary; and this is the Champions League KO Stage, which is the bread and butter of Ronaldo's mythical status. Of course, Cristiano Ronaldo was also the (chosen) designated "leader" of a Real Madrid club that had Sergio Ramos scoring crucial goals in two different Champions League Finals... Ramos played two Euro Finals and one World Cup Final; Kroos played one World Cup Final; Modric played one World Cup Final; but somehow fans are correctly expected to fall in line as they routinely entertain the nonsensical idea that it was Ronaldo's "winning mentality" that propelled Real Madrid to become the all-time titans of the Champions League. Indeed, there's no point anymore in being shocked and awed by the insipid dishonesty of modern propaganda; it is a literal parody working in real time at this point.
40 - Fastest players to reach 40 goals in the Champions League:Van Nistelrooy - 45 gamesLionel Messi & Robert Lewandowski - 61🇧🇷 Neymar - 65Karim Benzema - 67Garden.#PSGIBKF pic.twitter.com/v4Nra3DDn2— OptaJean (@OptaJean) December 9, 2020 https://thesefootballtimes.co/2015/10/05/ruud-van-nistelrooy-and-the-art-of-scoring-goals/
Hi Carlito, I know this post is old and asking you to clarify what you meant with the following comment might be difficult to put in the context of what you meant back then (5 months ago), I quote: There are some clear cut cases of players Or should i say certain versions of players with this in mind, can you give any example as to why you think R9 (1996/97 was considerably better in big games ? I know from memory that in La Liga he was not that good vs Real Madrid in season 96/97, did not score nor assist, or did anything important vs Real Madrid in 96/97. He did not score nor assist or do anything important either vs any top table opponents in La Liga that season. And this is exclusively 96/97 . Real Madrid was the team to beat. They won La Liga 96/97. R9 did nothing special in clasico In the national team with Brazil, R9 had a nerve break down in final vs France, remember? So there goes another big game he was not that considerably better. That leaves a few big games in WC98 e.g. second half matches to QF, SF. And perhaps some important La Liga matches. He did score vs all opponents 96/97 in La Liga, yes. But he did not score in all important matches like Real Madrid and the other top contenders in the race for the title. Copa America 97, he was great! long time havent been on bigsoccer so greetings to all ! hello to @leadleader
In some regards he has become seriously overlooked/underrated, literally no one over here seems to know about the 44 goals (he has some fine assists at CL level for example, and against Arsenal too; and tended to score against top class opposition when ManUnited bowed out) but generally speaking Henry and Shevchenko were better players than him, as also remarked by RvN himself. Not sure though whether a Batistuta was on another level based on the scarce factual evidence I've seen, the more so in peak level (over one or multiple years), but as always tough to compare this stuff. What I noticed as well in the famous 2003 encounters against Real Madrid is him being a more effective dribbler than I remembered (both home and away), skipping past a defender and then creating danger. At times it looked surprisingly slick and smooth too. When it comes to the better Champions League players (in their own time) without winning the thing he's somewhere in the discussion (not because of the volume, but as said also because of scoring at advanced stages when losing with the team).
Hello old friend. How is life treating you these days? Do you have a Romario channel on youtube? Anyways, my opinion of Ronaldo Nazario has improved over the years, but somehow I still prefer Romario. At any rate, I think this is an argument between the player with the best statistical individuality (Ronaldo Nazario), versus the player who fits better into a traditional tactical system (Romario). In the end, it comes down to your personal preference; I prefer team cohesion, which is why I prefer Romario. On a related note, I just watched yesterday the game Real Madrid vs. PSV Trofeo Carranza 1992, and Romario had a great first half, but then he did not played the second half as he was allegedly fatigued, as he had just played for Brazil, and not rested at all, as he was allegedly flown directly into the specific game vs. Real Madrid... The narrator said: "This is the version of Romario that we should have seen two or three years ago; he suffered a leg break injury which paused his development as a player, but now we are beginning to see what a great player he is; in my view, the best striker in the world at the moment." Romario at PSV is my preferred version of him. At Barcelona, Romario was too lazy at times; he could afford to be lazy, but I think he was a better player with PSV 1992/93, when he felt he needed to prove himself to the world. On the other hand, at Barcelona, Romario looks at times like a player who thinks he has nothing left to prove; the lazy side takes over, and Johan Cruyff unfortunately didn't know how to motivate him to work harder for the team? At any rate, Romario at PSV was my preferred version.
I honestly do not see much difference between Ruud van Nistelrooy versus Marco van Basten. Van Basten had a distinctive Francescoli element (for South Americans) or Prosinecki element (for Europeans); in that Van Basten was immediately impressive to the eye, even when he did something normal, it looked more impressive simply because Van Basten moved like a ballet dancer and a great athlete rolled into one... But other than that easily noticeable aesthetical superiority versus Van Nistelrooy, I think that Van Nistelrooy is more or less Van Basten's equal. I have to ask, how would you compare Ruud van Nistelrooy vs. Marco van Basten?
OMG... Now I want to listen to the whole football history, as narrated by Ruud van Nistelrooy; this man is a very funny and insightful speaker. I was laughing my ass off, from the point where Ruud says, "they are known for their defending, you know." The look of disgust on Ruud's face, as he says that, is absolute comedy gold. Somebody needs to make this happen asap: Ruud van Nistelrooy & Jose Mourinho Netflix Special: "A History of Football." That would be easy money in the bank right there.
My favorite striker of all time, hands down. I find Romario to be a lot more entertaining to watch, than Ronaldo Nazario; no disrespect to Ronaldo Nazario who was himself obviously very entertaining, and one of the greats as well.
@4:08 .. crazy to me the body control to pull that off. Looks easy but it isn't. and @11:20 ... i think he is juggling already knowing he is gonna meg him. Just suckering him in.
Marco van basten 1983-1987 Top 20 all time prime level player (particularly the last 2 seasons which were monstrous) Over the proceeding four seasons, between 1983 and 1987, Van Basten spearheaded the Ajax attack with unrivalled prolificacy. Plundering 118 goals in 112 league games – 138 in 145 across all competitions – during the stated period, Van Basten proved nigh on unstoppable. Never was he more potent than in the latter half of those years when, in 1986/87, he scored 43 in 43, more goals in total than in any other season of his career. But it was his ratio from the previous year that would endure above all and stand out as his most noteworthy, with his record 37 goals in just 26 league appearances enough to secure him the season’s European Golden Boot award. ......This serves to say that more than one image of Van Basten exists. There is, preserved pristinely in the minds of the blessed, an evocation of Van Basten unburdened by his injury curse, and it belongs only to the fans of Ajax. Sure, AC Milan fans saw him at his terrifying best in transient spells too, with Serie A and European Cup trophies held aloft in his hands, three Ballon d’Or to his name and more Golden Boots than he had feet to wear them. But for a select crop of onlookers, the relatively few Amsterdammers fortunate enough to have so fleetingly occupied the same time and space as a talent as bold and brilliant as he, they saw the most elegant, enrapturing, entrancing form of Van Basten." In all honesty the highs were stratospheric like scoring 12 league goals in a single month(September 1985) hasnt been matched by any other player in modern times The ones who got close were predictably Cristiano Ronaldo in May 2011 11 goals+4 assists in 4 la liga matches Luis Suarez December 2013 10 league goals+4 assists in 7 matches Lewandowski October 2020 9 goals+1 assist in 3 bundesliga matches I like 1986/87 for the quality of his goals and all round performances but 1985/86 deserves a mention for the super human goal rate Van basten scored at a rate of 1.50 per 90 in the eredivisie 85/86 For reference lewandowski 2020/21 arguably the greatest goalscorer in bundesliga history is currently on 1.54 goals per 90 in the league So van basten 83-87 can hold his own against not just players of his era but this aswell And if the stats were amazing please refer to the footage Van basten circa 1987 was able to score every single type of goal Bicycles vs das bosch Solo goals vs volendam and feyenoord Diving and leaping headers Left foot,right and tapin Just an astonishing repertoire He was in those years a machine I could see the argument that this version of him was one of the top 5 greatest European players of all time The top 4 are sealed(peak+longevity) Puskas,Cristiano,cruyff,Platini between peak Zidane and van basten 83-88 it is splitting hairs Van basten could take his spot for being more constant
Well, here is the full video in case you're interested (with comments below) There are some nice bits but also two things that struck me as odd/incomplete. He says somewhere he played with Ronaldo Luis and that the Fulham goal RvN scored came naturally to him. But I think even Ronaldo Luis has not too many of these. He also answers to the question why he scored many more outside the box goals for Real Madrid with "because I had improved my technique", but it is also well documented the service he received wasn't so great in these years.
Almost 30 years since the inception of the premiership/premier league era Where does rank in the PLs pantheon of greats? His tenure was marred by controversy but his peak was arguably only challenged by less than 5 players since 1991/92 Its a fact that luis Suarez has the highest recorded whoscored rating of the premier league era (since they started recording data in 2009/10)and the highest Dbs calcio rating by any premier league player in history We're talking about a player who reached a rating of 8.73 at the midway point of a league campaign which is completely absurd https://www.whoscored.com/Articles/dwAX5WSMd0yu0L3JheM9Mw/Show/Player-Focus-Unstoppable-Luis-Suarez A handful of players in history can claim they could sit at the same table as Lionel Messi with the full package of goals,assists,dribbling and teamplay Literally a handful Luis Suarez was one of those I wouldn't be surprised in the slightest if objective analysis showed he reached the legendary level of Ronaldo nazario in the first half of 1996/97(the hattrick against Valencia and wonder goal against compostela) For reference this is what he was capable of (in 2010/11) against the backline of eventual premier league winners and champions league finalists Manchester United Genius level stuff
https://ifkdb.se/spelare/Torbjörn-Nilsson_525 http://www.pesmitidelcalcio.com/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=3162
I've added you a rep for that Carlito (and will probably go and add Matigol a like now too for his efforts), as it's surely the best collection of footage available of Torbjorn and it does indicate pretty well why the likes of Sven regarded him so highly, and backs up some comments of @Krokko who might like to see the video himself if he hasn't already. I see some commenters liken him to Van Basten (Ajax years perhaps) and Rummenigge and while maybe it's a stretch overall (hard to really gauge just from the highlights in terms of general ability and effectiveness, and I suppose he is less famous because of not having so much of a high level impact anyway, in the same era) some of the clips can give that kind of impression about him being that kind of high level player in his own right. From the same era too maybe it could be suggested he had something (not everything) of a young Michael Laudrup in the way he controlled the ball and moved with it, and something (not everything) of a young Vialli in terms of the dynamism and finishing, or to compare him to a later player perhaps not so different to a young Shevchenko in some respects (again hard to say still, and I don't mean I now assume he was just as good and could/would have been with different circumstances after moving abroad to a top league like Sheva was). Maybe it's indeed not out of the question to include him as a potential (ability wise) best ever Swedish striker, in the mix with Henrik Larsson (who himself was the most effective in a non-top tier league and also secondary UEFA competitions, although with those assists in the 2006 CL Final and some notable goals in Euros too) and Gunnar Nordahl who to be fair I suspect still does not have his best footage available, since it seems to me his peak level individually was probably in the 40s, going into the very start of the 50s. This footage from a game in 1948 where he scored 5 vs Norway I had noticed recently though, so maybe it's interesting enough to be posted here: Guldbröderna (om fotbollsbröderna Nordahl, 1948) | KB Audiovisuella medier - YouTube (Only the final couple of minutes on the video - he's wearing number 9 of course)
I linked the pes stats overview His dribbling accuracy for his peak 1980-1986 according to the Mods/contributors was 93 His dribbling speed is 82 For KHR his dribbling accuracy was 87 His dribbling Speed was 90 http://www.pesmitidelcalcio.com/viewtopic.php?t=166 For peak Marco van basten his dribbling accuracy was rated as 93 His dribbling speed rated as 86 http://www.pesmitidelcalcio.com/viewtopic.php?t=171 So i guess the idea was in his best games he was somewhere in between the 2 players according to them(as a dribbling/ball carrying threat) As you allude to its a bit difficult to gauge how proflic he could've been in top leagues although he did top score in the European cup in consecutive seasons during the mid 80s(sharing one time with peak Michel platini 84/85) He did this without penalties however https://www.transfermarkt.co.in/torbjorn-nilsson/elfmetertore/spieler/108301
Yeah, I'd think Van Basten's dribbling speed might be assumed to be higher in the Ajax era set but it seems they didn't add one on that page (probably the top speed would be a little higher, and acceleration, albeit maybe it seems too much on the low side in the AC Milan stats anyway, unless they were going for an 'average Milan fitness level' kind of thing rather than when as fully fit and mobile as he still could be with no immediate injury problems). It does come down to guesswork a bit I suppose to an extent, and personal opinion of whoever makes the stats but the reasons for a good dribbling accuracy rating seem well evident for Nilsson anyway from the footage on Matigol's video for example, as well as reasons for a pretty high technique rating (as I understand it technique considered to be mainly about ball control, with shooting technique for example having a separate rating) and I see it is indeed at 89: Pes Miti del Calcio - View topic - Torbjörn NILSSON 1980-1986