I find Marco Van Basten more impressive despite the fact that Ronaldo was more complete and skillful as a player.
Yesterday 'San Marco' made arguably the biggest mistake of his public life. https://www.francefootball.fr/news/...res-avoir-lance-sieg-heil-a-l-antenne/1083197 https://www.lequipe.fr/Football/Act...res-avoir-lance-sieg-heil-a-l-antenne/1083195 Van Basten remarks condemned: 'In the past everyone understood that this is not possible' Various interest groups and media condemn the verdict of Marco van Basten last night in the television program 'Honor Tribune'. The former footballer made a misguided joke by calling out "Sieg Heil" after an interview in German. "We have been seeing these kinds of statements among young people for some time. We hear from schools that students try to be tough in this way, to tease them a bit. Maybe that is true. But when adults, role models, do it too, the subject loses the attention it needs ", responds Hanna Luden, director of the Center for Information and Documentation Israel (CIDI). Van Basten was at the table last night as an analyst at the broadcast. He called the Nazi salute after Hans Kraay Jr. interviewed the German Heracles coach Frank Wormuth. Van Basten was not in the picture at the time, but it could be heard. Later in the broadcast, he returned to his statement. He apologized after an online fuss about it. "I said something that was picked up by many people later. It was not the intention to shock people, so apologize for this. It was more to explain Hans his style of speaking German." n addition to the former football player, Fox Sports also apologized for the verdict. "The comment was inappropriate. Marco himself thinks that and as a channel we think so," said a spokesperson. Luden from the CIDI says at the same time that we "should not make an elephant of this". "We must not now accuse him of sympathy for the Nazis. This is a symbol of a period in which we are all sitting. We must still clearly explain why this is wrong." The timing of Van Basten's words makes the situation extra painful. This weekend in Dutch professional football a minute's silence is held against racism. No football is played in the first minute of the matches. They do so in response to racist statements during last Sunday's FC Den Bosch-Excelsior match. Van Basten's statement was also picked up in German media last night. Bild calls it a "scandal" and writes that the efforts being made against racism are "being trampled". "He was a great man for the field," writes Der Spiegel. "But the TV analyst now took a wrong turn with a Nazi salute." Various reactions came under the news item on the NOS Facebook page. A large group of people condemned the remarks. Others put the noise in the category 'you can't make jokes about anything anymore'. Luden calls that bad. "We are talking about a period that is the low point of our civilization. That is a trauma that we are all still bearing - not just the Jewish community. It is not true you cannot say anything anymore nowadays. Twenty years ago everyone just understood that this was impossible to say. " https://nos.nl/artikel/2311794-uits...roeger-begreep-iedereen-dat-dit-niet-kan.html Wormuth does not feel addressed by Van Bastens' Sieg Heil The misplaced joke of Marco van Basten did not touch Frank Wormuth at all. "I did not feel addressed," says the German trainer of Heracles. In the meantime, the media in Germany has taken notes: "I believe that immediately, those words are sensitive." A day later, Wormuth still does not get excited about Van Basten's remark. "He called me in the middle of the night and said it was a bad joke. He said it because Hans Kraay's German is so staccato and bad, it wasn't about me. Great, I have answered in Dutch that I do not feel addressed. It's okay for me, I don't see any connection between his words and myself. " Van Basten made the comment Saturday night for the match between Ajax and Heracles. Kraay had interviewed Wormuth live at FOX Sports in German, Van Basten was in the studio and mocked the interviewer's bad German by responding with "Sieg Heil." That immediately caused a lot of indignation on social media. The analyst immediately apologized, but the damage had already been done. Live "The stupid thing is that I said to Hans before the interview: let's do it in Dutch or English," says Wormuth. "We are in Amsterdam, not everyone can speak German here and it is live on television. Hans thought that was fine, but to my surprise he started in German, so I stopped for a moment after his first question. Anyway, after that I continued in German. I only heard after the game that something had happened. " What the trainer thinks of Van Basten uttering these words, he leaves aside. "It's done for me now, I don't want to talk about that," says Wormuth, who accepted the apology of the former top player. "It's Marco's challenge, not mine. I am outside this. " German media The trainer also saw that the German media were picking it up en masse on Sunday morning. Bild and Welt mention a "scandal", Der Spiegel writes that Van Basten was a big man on the football field, but took the wrong turn with "a Nazi salute to the German coach Frank Wormuth". The trainer is not surprised by the fuss in his home country: "In Germany, because of history, you really can't say" Sieg Heil ". That is why they are big. " Presenter Milan van Dongen apologized on Sunday for the analyst's remark. Kraay was also in the studio and called it "oil stupid." He then read a text message he received from Van Basten: "Life is just like football. Sometimes you hit the mark, sometimes you miss, but if you miss, that does not mean that you are a bad person. ” https://www.ad.nl/nederlands-voetba...il~ab5b27da/?referrer=https://www.google.com/ Van wie is die 'Sieg Heil'? Van Basten? #ajaher pic.twitter.com/kUOMyOJchh— Rutger Bakker (@Rutger0528) November 23, 2019 @FOXSportsnl als die Duitsers moeilijk doen over de uitspraak van Marco van Basten? Laat ze dit filmpje maar zien. Ook al is het lang geleden, het zit er gewoon nog in...Zicke-Zacke Zicke-Zacke ... Sieg Heil! - Jonny Buchardt 1973 https://t.co/QCUpTb5WJd via @YouTube— scozeuven (@scozeuven) November 24, 2019 As a national team coach he made some controversial decisions (axing Van Nistelrooij, Van Bommel, Seedorf etc.) but in this day and age of social media it became immediately 'trending topic'. I believe him when he says the words were directed to the interviewer (who spoke in staccato style) but it's clear it is still sensitive. It is not just social media but also the television station immediately receiving phone calls of annoyed people.
So the joke is supposed to be that since they are speaking German in Netherlands that the Germans have taken over as in WWII ?
No, that is not lingering in the background here, although the coach (who speaks Dutch) hints at the higher sensitivity in Amsterdam as opposed to close to the border in the home stadium of the club (10-15 kilometers away from the border). The 'joke' was directed to the style of interviewing (which is here still widely called 'Pfaff language' although it wasn't as bad as what Pfaff di). The interviewer also chose to summarize the conversation in German, with the coach nodding, which intentionally appeared as an 'Allo Allo' scene. The 'joke' was directed to the interviewer - others on the table (e.g. Ronald de Boer) were laughing and joking about it too but had the luck their microphones were switched off and didn't make a battle cry in a foreign language. He is now at risk to be fired from his duties, though it seems the majority of the public would find that over the top: https://www.telegraaf.nl/sport/827689776/uur-der-waarheid-nadert-voor-van-basten It is a mistake, his most controversial remark/act so far, and what it shows is how sensitive it all still is. His generation in particular has grown up with certain sentiments, and usually he is a fairly progressive man in his thoughts, also about football (the VAR, offside law, merging with the Belgian football pyramid, redistributing Champions League money to infrastructure etc.). It's not unthinkable this incident will appear in history books about the sentiments 75 years later, even if (or: especially when) one of your public figures does this. Perhaps it also says something about our social media age.
I don't get it. What's the association with the term sieg heil (which I understand what it means) and the interviewing style ?
The interview reminded the studio of the comedy series Allo Allo, and that tone of summarizing and speaking. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/'Allo_'Allo! The mics of the others were closed, his was open. Of course, it isn't the only 'spontaneous' gaffe from this year: https://hooliganstv.eu/the-story-be...graphy-during-germany-netherlands-06-09-2019/ https://theathletic.com/1184130/201...-without-the-ball-leaves-germany-in-a-muddle/ https://www.welt.de/sport/fussball/article199852204/Nationalmannschaft-Volley-Wie-es-zur-missglueckten-Fan-Choreo-kam.html Either way, he is symbolically suspended for a week and will also do work for "Netherlands Institute for War Documentation (NIOD), to promote awareness and knowledge about the history of the Second World War." That concludes the storm and angry telephone calls to the television studio.
It shows especially the force of social media (see this review of the decade) and of live television. Today (with the storm and consequences over) people recalled a comparable remark from March 2006, with a loaded answer by him. "My players never play football against a South American opponent. Only for that reason is it good that we have played against Ecuador. I have also seen how these players hold against an opponent of this caliber. You must not forget that we also missed many players, "said Van Basten, who at the end of the press conference had to tell a German reporter for the umpteenth time why Makaay was missing in the Dutch selection. Germany "May I also ask you something," said Van Basten after he had told him that he can call up many good center forwards. "What has Germany played against Italy?" The national coach looked surprised when many attendees started to laugh loudly. Van Basten wasn't aware of the final result. "Italy won 4-1", the German journalist said. Van Basten: "Sorry, Ich habe es nicht gewusst". https://www.nu.nl/sport/685764/van-basten-ziet-lichtpuntjes.html https://10us.waarbenjij.nu/reisverslag/1240112/duitse-grappen-of-nederlandse-humor This is a loaded phrase. https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wir_haben_es_nicht_gewußt But although it became broadcasted, it wasn't live and it was before instant social media. When a Cardinal used the same words in 2010 to contextualize the abuses in the catholic church on live television (see wikipedia link), the reaction was rather different (for effectively admitting he looked the other way, within an overwhelmingly protestant nation). See also Richard Keys his recent comments on 'off camera but on air' stuff https://www.football365.com/news/richard-keys-defends-sky-sports-sexism-axe-slams-hero-carragher
Slight tangent ( if is striker related ) but I was just reminded that Man United once finished a game with Ronaldo , Tevez , Berbatov and Rooney on the pitch at the same time !!
Arguably the most impressive stat of cristiano ronaldos career thus far He is the 2nd fastest player in history to reach the 50 goal mark in italy Of the top 10 fastest players to reah this milestone he is the only one to join in his 30s Here are the top 10 fastest 10.)higuain(CF in his prime) 50 in 96 matches 9.)adriano(CF in his prime) 50 in 95 matches 8.)edin dzeko(CF in his prime ) 50 in 92 matches 7.)trezeguet(CF in his prime) 50 in 86 matches 6.)batistuta(CF in his prime) 50 in 85 matches 5.)Platini(AMF in his prime) 50 in 84 matches 4.)van basten(CF in his prime) 50 in 84 matches 3.)R9(CF in his prime) 50 in 77 matches 2.)Cristiano Ronaldo (LWF joined at 33 years old) 50 in 70 matches 1.)andriy shevchenco(CF in his prime) 50 in 69 matches https://www.givemesport.com/1544893...-player-to-reach-50-goals-in-italian-football I think there is a name here that immediately stands out Michel platini Maybe he actually was the best goalscoring mid of all time It took him one less match then marco van basten who was the greatest striker of his era. And we know outside of goals platini did (alot) more
Amazing really Ronaldo is a next level athlete, the way he keeps himself and the league he’s playing in, who is to say he won’t reach 200 goals I. Italy? I can see his body holding up till he’s near enough 40? There has never been a guy in an absolute elite level of fitness at that age who I can remember? Lebron is the same, I know messi is a freak too but the other two have some kind of once in a sport lifetime physique/athletic ability combined with high level sports brain and technique
Different times. You can't compare the balance and the level of Serie A in 80 and 90 and now. It used to be best league, way more defensive and balanced. Now it is the 4th best league, unbalanced and more offensive oriented. Btw, you are comparing Platini and Cristiano, the thing is that both played for the most dominant teams when arrived, Juventus. Platini was an Atta-Mid, not a center midfield. Still, Cristiano's level in general is impressive. G+A-PK per 90 minutes. https://fbref.com/en/comps/11/stats/Serie-A-Stats
This possibly a mitigating factor in favour of platini/van basten and at a stretch even baggio/signori/prime batistuta but definitely not for R9(or shevchenco,ADP, or later ibrahimovic,higuain etc) In 1997/98 serie A averaged 2.75 goals per match In 2018/19 serie A averaged 2.68 goals per match Where is the evidence for this so called increased focus on offensive output
It is not the point. Point is the league is more off-balanced, R9, Shev, ADP, Ibra arrived in less dominant teams than Cristiano... even Platini's Juventus is not as dominant as the actual Juventus (or any other superteam of today) you can check Elo Ratings vs Opposition if you want, also important.... whenthey arrived (specially in 80s and 90s) the Serie A was the premier league of that time, the actual EPL in comparison. The Serie A nowadays is just the 4º league in Europe and not the best like before. Last but not least, the Italian league of before was way tougher, man-oriented, nowadays is still more offensive with probable less tackles and man-marked tactics. CRonaldo's numbers in the actual serie A is just impressive if you take into account he is 35, not as impressive if you take into account he is the main shooter and the main focus of the multiple Italian champions Juventus. 4º + 4º = Average 4º For comparison post-peak and post-injury, unfit R9 in the very arguably best league of his time (00s La Liga) 1º+1º+3º+2º = 1.75º In terms of G-PK + A per 90 min, R9 was three times the top goal contributor in the arguably best league of his period. Post-peak. PD: R9 was a bit of showman, SS in the Internazionale Milan too, not your typical CF.
Before Cristiano arrived in Italy Cristiano until now still didn't reached 0.73 non-PK Goals per 90 of Dybala or Higuain for Juventus. He could reach since he in a such dominant team like Juventus, but still is not there.
What's the need for these laughable descriptions R9 was unequivocally not "unfit" during 2002/03 and barely 26 years old(9 years younger than CR currently is( He was unfit in the 2005 portion of 2004/05 and thereafter Non penalty goals C.Ronaldo 18/19 at 34 years old scored 5 CL KO goals in 4 matches :1.25 gpg Zlatan Ibrahimovic (10+ years) 7 CL ko goals in 37 matches: 0.19 Gpg Ibrahimovic was capponieri and MVP in Italy multiple times but prime CR wouldn't have at least 1.5 gpg average in serie A???? Edit: R9 barely scored 5 CL ko goals in his entire career Playing for several heavyweights in Europe across 10 years Lets not forget prime CR was the fastest player to reach 100 la liga goals The fastest to 200 The fastest to 300 Etc....... Puskas,R9,sanchez,suarez,zarra,etoo etc all played there(most of them in their prime) So this is hardly a surprise
It is a tricky to compare different times and circumstances. Point is R9 only qualify for 6 seasons in the TOP5 European League (96/97, 97/98, 02/03, 03/04, 04/05, 05/06) To qualify is you have to play at least half of the total minutes. Of these six seasons R9 qualify, he was the top Goal Contributor (G+A-PK per 90 minutes) in at least 4 seasons, 96/97, 02/03, 03/04 and 04/05. In 97/98 he likeky was not but probably a TOP5, 0.75 NPKGoals + Assists in this season plus he was likely the top dribbler of that competition too (he was in the route to do that according one Italian magazine). Of course Inter wasn't that dominant tho (they scored 51 Goals in the 96-97 season, up to 62 in 97-98). In 2005-2006 likely a TOP5 too, if not a TOP3 behind Eto'o and Ronaldinho. So R9 resume in terms of G+A-PK per 90 in Liga format is: TOP1: 96-97, 02-03, 03-04, 04-05 TOP5: 97-98, 05-06 About your comparisons.. R9 arrived in a Real Madrid Galacticos on decline and he himself is not at his 1996, 1997, pre injury form as well, he didn't played in the CL in his peak seasons. R9 was out of peak and a bit shadow of what he used to be at Real Madrid, CR7 also is not at his peak as well that is 2007-2014 going by calendar year, still world class tho. How was more out of their peak if Juventus Cristiano or Madrid R9 would be a good question. I think Cristiano Ronaldo didn't declined that much after 2014-2015 and I don't think R9 02-03 was better than 96-97 either.
Impressive. But dude is at 24% PK goals / total goals in Serie A games. 7 already this season. Insane number of PKs.
Yeah its nothing unprecedented R9(prime) Serie A 1998/99 14 goals in 19 matches 7 penalties out of 14 league goals=50% https://www.transfermarkt.com/ronal...98&verein=&liga=&wettbewerb=&pos=&trainer_id=
Someone has to score them Usually although not exclusively it is the best player on the team who steps up Yeah 50% pens for R9 is an outlier tbh But even 24% is for CR In his penaldo prime he rarely exceeded this mark 2011/12 14 pens out of 60 total goals=23%