I do this too Find it helpful if you yell out "ball" there to avoid confusion. Similarly, while I don't point to where the advantage is being applied from, I've seen refs who do it and say "waiting". Players/coaches that understand the game well enough get it. Others are oblivious... but its not because of that
First five school assignments for the fall season beginning later this month. All varsity to start. First match should be a throw away game. After that large school matchup of two teams who shouldn't threaten for a title, but this division is usually decent club players filling the roster. The three remaining matches are each pretty sizable rivalry matches in the AA, B & C divisions, each including last season's league winner. Gonna need to hit the ground running.
Sorry I should have said that yeah, this is usually taking place in the attacking third or on forward attacks through midfield. I did a U19B tournament final yesterday, both NPL teams, and my waiting and seeing went over well. I even didn't wait and see and blew the whistle too quickly with an attacker in his attacking 40% moving towards the sideline with a defender right there and he got pissed at me for not giving advantage. Told him man, you were going to the sideline, defender right there, there's no advantage, BUT REF I COULDA GOT AROUND HIM. Now that is a very good idea. I don't do any sort of finger point or verbal acknowledgement that I saw the foul, I just take note of it and after the up to 4 seconds go by, whistle it back to the spot if necessary. I think I'll try out that pointing thing. I do this as well, but usually the way I indicate the "ball" is by saying "ball" and having an open palm facing up while pointing towards the ground where the challenge took place, which I see a lot of people do as well.
I've been keeping the ball rolling on reasonable training methods coming back from surgery this year and am starting to round into form right in time for the increase in matches for the fall season. I'm nowhere near the level of cardiovascular fitness that I was at before my injury last season, but I'm fit enough for the matches I'm refereeing and have been building more fitness slowly over the summer. I've been steadily progressing despite my delayed start to the season and starting to feel like my refereeing is back within my own control (and not limited by my body). Really happy about where I'm at compared to where I was six months ago.
I did my first match yesterday since being diagnosed with Covid on July 29th. Ran a line on a U18 boys match. I got over the hump/through the wall after about 30 minutes and felt pretty good. Still not feeling like I was close to how I felt the week before Covid, but it could have been far worse.
I'm a failure as a parent. Just before the fitness test started, the test administrator shows me a text he had from my daughter earlier this month. (He was her mentor when she was an up and coming grade 6,) It seems that my daughter has gone over to the dark side. She's coaching. She hadn't told us or her siblings. She signed up the five year old for AYSO soccer this fall. "They were short of coaches, so, yeah." Her sister's comment was "Maybe nobody else was willing to coach him, because 'he's a lot.'" My wife's comment was "She'll run a tighter ship than I did." (She coached the younger daughter's team at that age group,) I'm not sure she meant that as a compliment.
I know you're not serious. My son is coaching his 6 year old and will probably end up coaching the 3 year old too. No clue if he will get back into refereeing. His 12-14 year old original yellow shirts would never fit him now. I started out playing, then coaching, then refereeing because that was where I was needed. At 78, I'm still needed and enjoy it, so I'll be out there this Fall and next year. Just got my first assignments for High School for next March and April.
I was doing my weekly watch of EPL matches YC/RC decisions and on the Man U-Brentford match, 82' yellow card to McTominay has the perfect example of my method of wait and see for 2-3 seconds to wait for advantage that I described earlier. Foul happens, fouled team keeps possession (possession DOESN'T EQUAL advantage), immediately loses it, ref goes back and gives original foul plus UB YC (I assume SPA vs. reckless) Except unfortunately the center put up his arm for advantage then pulled it back to whistle for the foul FIVE SECONDS after it happened. This is exactly why I wait, to avoid pulling back the advantage. https://clip.dubz.co/v/yzhr29
This can cut either way, and there has been extensive debate as to whether it is better to signal and then wait or to wait and then signal. Signaling promptly tells the victim "yes I saw it and am aware." In my mind, which option is best depends on the event (including whether the victim or the victim's team has the opportunity) and the temperature of the match. If a player has been cleaned out by a reckless tackle, but his team mate has a potential advantage opportunity, the immediate cll out (and going back if necessary) can reduce the likelihood of the victim retaliating. But if, say, the victim of a hold pulls away from the fouler, and is the player with the potential advantage, waiting to say anything works well. I can't get the video to work on the computer I'm on, but as described, I'm questioning whether there was cause to pull back, or if the team squandered the advantage that was there. Going back is not intended to make up for mistakes of players who waste an advantage.
I didn't have sound on to know exactly when the referee blew his whistle, but that appeared to be about 3 seconds. The time from when he was fouled to when the ball went to the other team was less than 2 seconds. The ref actually waited a half second to signal advantage, not sure what he was yelling before or after. I think it was a good application of advantage and then bringing it back, with good signaling...
Of course I uploaded it without sound, what an idiot. Here is the corrected clip. https://clip.dubz.co/v/0pq3s7 Foul happens at 81:28, signals advantage at 81:29 because he sees Brentford keeps possession and there's an attacker on the wing, Man U defender immediately intercepts it, whistle is blown at 81:32 to bring back the foul, so 3-4 seconds later. You guys are describing the exact opposite of what our area are taught as "higher level" refs. We are taught that you are not supposed to signal advantage and then pull it back. If you signal advantage, you've made your decision and whatever happens afterwards is what happens. They really hammer on us the "wait and see" strategy, so in this situation, it would be seeing the foul and waiting the 2-3 seconds until that next Brentford players gets possession and THEN COMPLETES the pass to the open winger to signal advantage. Here is a somewhat infamous Mike Dean clip where he literally shakes his head in frustration when his (poor IMO, the attacker is running into three defenders) advantage gets "wasted" barely a second after calling it, which I view as frustration on his part for calling advantage at all because he knows he can't take it back. https://www.youtube.com/shorts/RMw_u_WkpxY
Nothing I the LOTG says you can’t go back after signaling advantage. It used to be the case that once the R recognized advantage it couldn’t change. The Laws were explicitly revised to say the R can go back if advantage doesn’t ensue. It may well be preferred to wait to signal until it ensues, especially at higher levels of play. But until I see official instructions to the contrary I’ll stand by my view that there is nothing improper about signaling immediately when the situation warrants it (particularly outside those higher levels where players are less sophisticated) and going back if necessary.
I thought the whole time the referee had his arms up saying advantage 9or whatever term they prefer) was the time in which advantage may not fully materialize, and is when he can stop play and bring it back. Like MassachusettsRef said in the other post about this, it is in the opinion of the referee on whether the advantage is or is not fully realized. In his opinion, it was. I've seen some refs bring it back after a shot was taken by an attacker. How in the world? I think some may think that advantage is exactly X seconds (likely counting it off in their heads while signaling), and if the attacking team doesn't keep the ball or score during that time, they must bring it back. Hmmm
In theory, I kind of like the idea of doing a one-armed advantage signal as a “we may have an advantage materialize” with the two-armed signal and calling it out saying “yes, advantage”. I know that would initially be hard to remember doing in the heat of the moment, but that could help with communicating “go on, go on” and still be able to whistle for a foul by (and I’m being stupid simple here) “I didn’t put the second arm up yet, so the advantage didn’t yet materialize.”
This isn’t inherently wrong. If the fouled player is able to get off a feeble shot while falling down, there was never advantage—there was never an opportunity better than the FK and going back is completely proper. If the player gets off a rocket that just goes slightly wide, then the advantage ensued—he got an opportunity better than the FK and the R should not go back to the foul. Obviously, the challenge is drawing the line somewhere in between the two extremes.
The one thing I'll say that while it can't be a really long time, it also can't be cut off at X seconds. Here's an example from a game I did a few weeks ago. U19 boys, pretty high level. Blue's outside back sends a long ball over the top. As he is following through, White's left winger carelessly runs into him. Simple foul, but I can tell that Blue's right winger is tracking the ball out of the air. If he controls the ball, he's in on goal with only the keeper and a defender to beat. The ball is up in the air several seconds - probably 4 or 5. As I'm running down the field, I know that if Blue controls cleanly I have an advantage. The ball bounced and White's keeper kicked the ball out for a throw-in, so I brought the play back 60 yards for the free kick. This was a lot longer than the 3-4 seconds most people think of for advantage, but I had to let the ball get to the ground and see if Blue could control it. After I whistled for the foul and brought it back for the free kick, Blue's captain just looked at me and said, "Class call, sir. Completely class call."
LOL, of course the recipient of the ball thought it was good. This is a great example, thanks! It's a grey area for sure...
Calling advantage lets the attacking players and coach know yep, I see it! but let's see if you can keep going! Gives credibility. Especially when you bring it back if they can't materialize anything. I think, waiting too long w/ no advantage call, while fundamentally a better way to do things, is problematic in that often players/coaches don't "get" what you are doing and the delay causes frustration (not saying it's right, just what I have observed in my own matches). Related-- I do realize it is often better to just call the foul up front (especially w/ youth games) and avoid even trying to implement advantage. However, in higher skilled games, I love calling advantage and seeing it materialize-- love it. Best thing ever.
First game of the season. NPL U16B AR. 89 degrees with 63% humidity. Heat index of 99. On plastic that was probably radiating 130. I didn’t pull a muscle and I managed to make it to the end without passing out. I’ll take that as a win.
First AYSO training class I’d the year for me today. So fun to be back to regular classes and get a chance to teach the newbies.
Women's O-65 game. Goalkeeper for one team is no more than 5'3", a fireplug sized player. She was incredible. In the first half, she made a perfectly timed diving shoulder height save that looked like something out of a goalkeeper training video. In the second half, she makes a double save that had the subs for a men's open game on an adjacent field cheering and applauding her. A player on the other team, wearing a colorful do rag, comes to me before the game. "Ref, I just wanted you to know that I'm a brain cancer girl. If I see the ball coming at my head, I'll do this [as she holds both wrists in front of her forehead, palms away from the ball's direction]. I've only had to do it twice in the last year, but just so you know." Soccer, your game for life.