I guess I chose variation over consistency with Gerson/Albert and Law/Greaves too! Maybe, if assuming a more attacking line-up (feasible in Pollo's 1-3-1-2-3 shape) than a typical Italian side of the era (in which Trapattoni and Rivera would normally be accompanied by a 3rd midfielder, leaving Rivera the more advanced of the 3), then bringing in Albert when there is Trapattoni as an outright DM behind seems ok, and it'd seem a big omission to not recognise Albert at all even in a reserve team I think (obviously Pele has the place in the main line-up, once it's been decided to go with 60-70 rather than 55-65). Law and Greaves is kind of a toss-up for me anyway, but given the players selected alongside them I think splitting the choice makes some kind of sense. No prizes for spotting a genuine mistake though in post 224 (Eusebio isn't there!). And also Lorenzo Buffon doesn't really fit there lol (see new entry Mazurkiewicz, who is a bit on the young side but seems a more likely choice overall, also compared to other Milan 'keeper Fabio Cudicini who is the same age and might have been who I meant to type originally anyway). I'll re-do 60-70 now then, and settle on Greaves making that reserve team now with Bene joining him in it and Corso also in the reserves with Moulijn promoted, while Albert and Rivera have a little switch of sides in the inside forward/AM positions too: Banks (Mazurkiewicz); Shesternyov (Vasovic); Burgnich (Kaposzta), Moore (McNeill), Marzolini (Gemmell); Voronin (Trapattoni); Charlton (Albert), Pele (Rivera); Chislenko (Bene), Eusebio (Greaves), Moulijn (Corso). I think I'm satisfied with that as my effort now, and hope I haven't missed any other obvious players off this time!
Yes Braine appeared at centre-forward, inside-right and inside-left in internationals. Most often at centre-forward.
Settling on this for 85-95 (I'd suggest Stojkovic, Hagi, Gullit and Laudrup could be considered interchangeable positionally to change the dynamic of the line-up, and at left-back Maldini is really borderline with 90-2000 and Brehme probably also with 80-90 I think!): Preud'homme (Zubizarreta); Jorginho (Bergomi), McGrath (Kohler), R.Koeman (Belodedici), Maldini (Brehme); Rijkaard (Sammer); Stojkovic (Hassler), Hagi (Scifo), M.Laudrup (Donadoni); Gullit (Francescoli), Van Basten (Klinsmann) And this for 90-2000: Schmeichel (Seaman); Petrescu (Angloma), Blanc (Costacurta), Desailly (Aldair), Lizarazu (Jarni); Redondo (Davids); B.Laudrup (Caniggia), Gascoigne (Litmanen), Giggs (Ginola); Romario (Weah), R.Baggio (Savicevic)
There are only two differences between this team and that of Tom Stevens: Janes for Sesta and Kostalek for Szepan. There does not seem much to argue about here. I would favour Janes at right-back, partly for what he offers going forward. I do not know much about Kostalek and would go for Sastre at right-half. He played there throughout the successful 1937 Copa America campaign although normally being listed as an inside-forward. With Sastre and Sarosi arguably out of their most natural positions, the temptation to shoe-horn Szepan into left-half will be resisted. He just misses out to Nejedly at inside-left. This is the first period where PDG and Pollo listed teams, and they deliberately included some players from the previous time frame.
Trying 45-55 with reserves now (trying for a complimentary 'half-back pairing' that means a different type of Austrian is put at left-half in each team - I feel like Ocwirk was probably the best of the 3 overall but alongside Bozsik it should be Hanappi or Happel and I wasn't quite sure which to put at left-half and which at left-back but leaning to the full-backs playing wide like in WM I put Happel as left-half again, in effect second central defender): Grosics (Maspoli); V.Andrade (Stankovic), Jonquet (Liebrich), Hanappi (Marche); Bozsik (Varela), Happel (Ocwirk); Matthews (Ghiggia), Hidegkuti (Vukas), Finney (Praest); Kubala (Wilkes), Nordahl (Bobek) And 50-60: Beara (Carizzo); D.Santos (Buzanszky), Charles (Bellini), N.Santos (Lantos); Wright (Edwards), Liedholm (Zebec); Julinho (Boniperti), Di Stefano (Schiaffino), Czibor (Skoglund); Kocsis (Kopa), Puskas (Fontaine) Edit: Just switched Liedholm (who wasn't in my 50s line-up before) with Edwards (who was). Thinking about the balance and also considering time playing during the whole decade I feel like Liedholm can take a place as the creative wing-half in the main team this time.
Oh!, I totally forgot Didi and Garrincha in my list. Including them would change my XI (especially in the case of Didi) because I think that force me to align at his side a more defensive partner and I would also opt for Zito. Lev YASHIN (USSR) DJALMA SANTOS (BRA) - José SANTAMARÍA (URU) - NÍLTON SANTOS (BRA) - ZITO (BRA) ------..------------- DIDI (BRA) --- - Luis SUÁREZ (SPA) ------------- PELÉ (BRA) -- --- -- GARRINCHA (BRA) --------- Uwe SEELER (GER) ----- Francisco GENTO (SPA) [*] The conflict I could write down is that in the 3-2-5 system Didi was inside-forward and not a central midfielder (which was only in the 4-2-4 system), but I think it might still make tactical sense. Perhaps the better option could be to place Masopust and replace Luis Suárez with Didi as right insider to this: Mid 1950's to Mid 1960's (1955-1964) Lev YASHIN (USSR) DJALMA SANTOS (BRA) - José SANTAMARÍA (URU) - NÍLTON SANTOS (BRA) -------------ZITO (BRA) ------------ Josef MASOPUST (CZE) --- ---- DIDI (BRA) ---------------------- PELÉ (BRA) -- --- -- GARRINCHA (BRA) --------- Uwe SEELER (GER) ----- Francisco GENTO (SPA)
I'll come back to 2000-2010, but this is my 95-05 one: Kahn (Toldo); Cafu (Zanetti), Thuram (Hierro), Cannavaro (Campbell), Roberto Carlos (Candela); Keane (Makelele), Vieira (Hamann); Figo (Beckham), Zidane (Rui Costa), Raul (Nedved); Ronaldo (Shevchenko) Edit: Swapped Thuram in for Nesta (to hold back for the next period), and Hamann in for Petit, after originally submitting the post.
Ok, 2000-2010 now: Buffon (Van der Sar); Maicon (Salgado), Nesta (Ferdinand), Carvalho (Lucio), Zambrotta (Cole); Gerrard (Baraja), Cambiasso (Lampard); Pires (Ljungberg), Totti (Kaka), Ronaldinho (Seedorf); Henry (Van Nistelrooy)
Another quick alteration, as I think I'd gone too 'varied' from my original 90s choices (re: Bergkamp/Weah/Romario/Savicevic/Baggio etc), and don't really want to leave Bergkamp out from the 90-00 choices completely (I feel it's this period for him because of accounting for him at Ajax even though he continued to excel quite often for Arsenal after 2000), so Caniggia will come out (being more of a supporting or wing forward anyway really and even showing some of his best wing play before 1990 perhaps - I guess in theory he might be in team 3 for 90-2000 along with Batistuta also from Argentina though, and probably in the same right wing position I guess). So 90-2000 again to correct part of post 228: Schmeichel (Seaman); Petrescu (Angloma), Blanc (Costacurta), Desailly (Aldair), Lizarazu (Jarni); Redondo (Davids); B.Laudrup (Savicevic), Gascoigne (Litmanen), Giggs (Ginola); Romario (Weah), R.Baggio (Bergkamp) It's a close call between the Romario/Baggio and Weah/Bergkamp partnerships I think, but was originally for the 90s selection. Ditto Savicevic getting a first choice winger place (being close to a first choice forward/AM place too), but I'll leave that as it is again (keeping Rivaldo out also but he'd be close again if in this period similarly - I doubted him for 95-05 due a drop-off after the turn of the century generally).
Here is my try for 35-45 Swift (Darui); Janes (Foni), Domingos Da Guia (Cullis), Biro (Rava); Sastre (Andreolo), Locatelli (Mercer); Moreno (Carter), Zsengeller (Doherty); Tesourinha (Sas), Bican (Leonidas), Garcia (Brustad) And 40-50 Ramallets (Livingstone); Solomon (Carey), Parola (Franklin), Nilsson (Gambetta); Rossi (Alvim), Ben Barek (Loik); Zizinho (Walter), V. Mazzola (Pedernera); Milburn (Menti), Ademir (Lawton), Loustau (Gainza)
Great teams!! Maybe Tesourinha (assuming this is the Right-winger from Internacional and Vasco) would be a smoother fit in the 40-50s team. His first selection to the national team happened in 44 and in the beggining of the 50s (50-51) he still was a valuable player at Vasco da Gama.
Thanks - yeah I think him and also Milburn got first choice right wing spots respectively due to perceived idea of the best form they showed in the periods concerned, rather than it definitely being the best period for them overall. Matthews is an opposite case where he could have taken a 40-50 place himself probably, or even a 35-45 one. Once he went in 45-55 there were places up for grabs on the right wing! I know Tesourinha was said to be somewhat of an 'earlier Garrincha' (and "some said he was better"). Milburn became most renowned as a central attacker but had started as a winger and then also did play there occasionally for England, so I felt he could go in on the right side of a front 3.
Doing the last decade now, if anything leaning towards those who seem likely to continue to excel into the 2020s for 10-20 as it stands (which will balance off somewhat with leaning towards those who did well before 1925 in my 25-35 selection which is as far as I'll try to go back) and some cases might be borderline for qualifying but with the emphasis more on peak and also trying to spread the best players between the eras (they might or might not get in for 15-25) I think it is ok. 1925-1935 will be a bit different, but as suggested by Peru, Tom etc I think a few players would qualify for that according to reputation as well as for the previous/overlapping period (Nasazzi, Zamora etc) - I'll be trying not to miss those kinds of players off anyway of course. 2005-2015 Cech (Casillas); Zabaleta (Ferreira), Ramos (K.Toure), Pique (T.Silva), Lahm (Abidal); Xavi (Pirlo), Alonso (Schweinsteiger); Messi (Robben), Iniesta (Y.Toure), C.Ronaldo (Ribery); Ibrahimovic (Eto'o) 2010-2020 Neuer (De Gea); Alves (Trippier), Varane (Hummels), Van Dijk (Godin), Marcelo (Alba); Busquets (Kante), Modric (Pogba); Salah (Ozil), Neymar (De Bruyne), Hazard (Mane); Lewandowski (Suarez) They are basically more like 4-3-3s I think but I've written them as 4-2-3-1s according to the original template for this period anyway (arguably the second one for 2005-2015, with Yaya Toure in, does seem more 4-2-3-1 though actually potentially, though this time I was thinking of Sneijder maybe getting a place in that XI rather than Yaya himself, or Schweinsteiger, but then it might have meant picking Yaya more on Barcelona and/or pre Barcelona form as his role and capabilities at Man City weren't so much defensive or all-round even I think....even though I've gone without true outright holding players anyway alongside Xavi and Pirlo, albeit players who did play from deep in midfield in 4-2-3-1 systems).
Well, the first team for 10-20 was definitely 4-2-3-1 of course. I could change that by putting Neymar (or Hazard) right wing, or even making it more a Christmas Tree. De Bruyne could then join that team, and the reserves would become 4-2-3-1 moreso itself if Ozil switched into a CAM position, with Salah on the right. That's not an official change though! I'm probably borderline on it, but Neymar and Hazard both seem best left of centre, or central probably, as opposed to on the right side, if trying to make a representative line-up and one that would function optimally in theory.
I would make just some small personal changes. 2005-2015 I would place Phillip Lahm as a RB (Zabaleta out and P. Ferreira still as a sub) and Patrice Evra as a LB. 2010-2020 D. Alaba would be my reserve LB (Alba out). And Hummels would be my starter. I'm really liking this Idea of broken decades (30-40, 35-45, 40-50s...)
Yeah, it does make things fit nicely I think. Credit to others like Tom, Puck, Peru FC etc who had previously put the idea forward. I suppose with Lahm it is a case of his earlier years making a more compelling case for left back and his later years making a more compelling case for right back isn't it? Originally I'd put Alves in that decade too, and so him at right back and Lahm at left back seemed the obvious way to go. Then I started to think of moving Alves into 2010-2020, but left Lahm at left back anyway. I could have Zabaleta and Lahm as alternating full-backs in that team lol! Alaba had crossed my mind, and Evra too to be honest (it seems like his case is enhanced more by his Man United form than his French NT form overall).
Taking a deeper look, Paulo Ferreira seems like a stronger contender (considering his body of work for Porto and Chelsea) for the 00-10s team. So, Pablo Zabaleta is back as a sub for P. Lahm. lol
1925-1929 Zamora (Combi); Nasazzi (Rosetta), Quincoces (Meiklejohn); J.Andrade (Samitier), Smistik (Van Heel), Nausch (Gestido); Puc (Jackson), Scarone (James), Braine (Dean), Sindelar (Schall), Orsi (Morton) 1930-1940 Planicka (Hiden); Minelli (Burgr), Hapgood (Sesta); Kostalek (Polgar), Sarosi (Szepan), Copping (Cilaurren); Guaita (Porta), Meazza (Binder), Piola (Wilimowski), Nejedly (Ferrari), Bastin (Titkos)
@PDG1978, why select Ramallets over Livingstone for that period? Ramallets only arrived to be a permanent member of the squad of Barcelona in 1947 and he was a substitute who hardly played until practically 1950 (he began to appear only since the mid of the 1949-50 season because the starting goalkeeper was injured). Before that he was practically off the radar (even played in Third Division).
Could be a mistake yes, although I think I was viewing his peak towards the end of the decade and especially his reputation during the World Cup as worthy of a selection. Maybe I was also being a bit lax with the cut-off point and feeling some early 1950s form could be considered relevant, given in theory he'd go in 1945-1955 but others had been selected ahead of him for that period.
I think on reflection it would be more satisfactory to switch Maspoli (from 1945-55 reserve into 1940-1950 first choice) with Ramallets. I was kind of aware of the issue with Ramallets, but maybe overlooked just how he wasn't fully established as Barcelona goalkeeper until as late as Peru stated. It can be that it was just a matter of hierarchy and that he'd done well on loan and was being lined up as the future goalkeeper but yeah he just wasn't playing enough games to even qualify based on peak form trumping number of years. Maspoli's generation would seem to be 1940-1950 anyway age wise, even though he didn't start to play for Uruguay until halfway through that time, and even though I think I've seen some nice saves he made in 1954 and it seems his standing in the game as a top goalkeeper did carry through the early 50s. Maybe over the 40s as a whole Livingstone could be more worthy than him too, but I feel like I'd be satisfied with putting Maspoli in the first team. There have been some cases where I've put players in arguably the second best period, or a period where their age was young at the start or old at the end, to try and get as many of the best and most heralded players in my selections as I could. I even wondered if I'd be putting David Jack into 1925-1935 similarly! I think I didn't really have room to consider him as an inside forward anyway though in the end, given other candidates I was feeling sure about putting in. I think the one other change might be that I put Eto'o ahead of Ibrahimovic as the striker for the 05-15 first team, but I'll not do that for Suarez/Lewandowski in 2010-2010, even though I'd be a bit uncertain in both cases. I might re-post all my selections in order, copying and pasting, sometime, with the Ramallets/Maspoli swap shown and also the Ibrahimovic/Eto'o swap.
If I show my original decade selections again then it might be I remove Lawton from the 1930s one, and put in Bakhuys (or switch him with Willimowski in the 1930-1940 team). Even moreso probably I was considering peak (as long as not too brief) to qualify players for those 'by decade' choices, but Lawton was certainly very young in the late 30s even if he made a big and immediate impact. I've put him in for 1940-1950 (reserves) in the overlapping selections of course, even though I'd have been thinking 1935-1945, but there were multiple competing centre-forwards for that period seemingly - Bican and Leonidas went in my teams and that's where Erico would have most likely fitted I guess too for example.
Accidental typo obviously for the top selection - 1925-1935 is what it should say! It was interesting/fun to try to do those teams, looking into things and picking out noted players, but obviously the periods I had the least insight into overall!
I think maybe I won't write out my original 'by decade' teams again - they are all on page 8 anyway. Whether I kept Lawton, or switched him with Bican even (who could be inside forward too), or put in Peucelle (possibly putting Puc as inside forward) or Guaita (surely putting Puc as inside forward) doesn't really matter. Leonidas would potentially move to centre forward obviously. With Lawton in, and Meazza as right winger/forward, it's more towards a 'select XI' for an all-star match perhaps even if not based on the players best form being at the same time for such a theoretical match. Given Binder could move to centre forward, and might be best suited to do so rather than being at inside forward even, it might be I do consider Peucelle for a 1930-1940 place too (either for that reason, or thinking he'd get a right wing place anyway).