And tell me this only (i won't reply to the other remarks mentioned above) based on what is overall goodness calculated ? How many full games of Pele have you watched , or do u make your narratives based on just compilation videos , stats , trophies or myths ? If you come to your narrative on Pele x Maradona's ability based on watching full games of them , then i won't say anything. But based on what is the difference between Pele and maradona so significant as you seem to suggest? Because as per my own analysis , watching the games etc . all i get is Pele is a better shooter, insided box finisher, two footed, better heading , slightly better athlete than Maradona . Whereas maradona is a more finessed passer and passing range, better crossing & corner taking, better dribbler (better close control, agility ) . Both players have their advantages and it looks a lot closer. But based on what is the difference so much according to you, only Lord knows ...
33 goals+12 assists in 35 matches 6 solo goals 1 solo goal every 5~matches 6 direct freekicks 1 direct fk every 5~matches 133 dribbles completed in la liga at a rate of 4.87 per 90 Source opta 119 - Real Madrid-target Pedro León completed the third-most dribbles in La Liga 09/10, behing Messi (217) & C. Ronaldo (133). Quick-feet— OptaJose (@OptaJose) June 10, 2010 Best ball carrier in la liga Source:micheal caley https://grantland.com/the-triangle/the-evolution-of-cristiano-ronaldo-real-madrid-manchester-united/ Most fouls won in la liga 2009/10 94 fouls won in 2490 minutes 3.40 fouls won per 90 https://www.whoscored.com/Players/5583/History/Cristiano-Ronaldo It puts tweets like this into perspective Eden Hazard: Only Wilfried Zaha (121) was fouled more times than Hazard (101) in the Premier League last season pic.twitter.com/t6s0uixIyy— WhoScored.com (@WhoScored) August 4, 2017 Hazard 16/17 101 fouls won in 3007 minutes 3.02 fouls won per 90 Adama traore 17/18 90 fouls won in 2427 minutes 3.34 fouls won per 90 Wilfred zaha 16/17 121 fouls won in 3025 minutes 3.60 fouls won per 90 These are probably 3 of the 4 best ball progessors/magnets in the premier league since 2010 The other being Jack grealish Out of all the top 5 leagues la liga is arguably the most challenging for top level dribblers Eden Hazard has been fouled 4.1 times per 90 in La Liga since his move to Real Madrid. More times than in any Premier League season at Chelsea. pic.twitter.com/28wVdZS0sF— Madrid Xtra (@MadridXtra) November 30, 2020 The outcome of this is known Barring a miraculous change of form these fouls have rendered him the most obsolete signing in real madrids history Bundesliga followed by ligue 1 being the easiest for dribblers IMO Top 3 chance creator in la liga Source opta 60 - David Silva created 60 goalscoring chances from open play in La Liga in 09/10, only 3 players (Ronaldo,Xavi,Kaká) created more. Threat— OptaJoe (@OptaJoe) June 30, 2010 Second highest rated player in the world according to Whoscored and castrol The video is really a classic(made in 2010) Probably the best made for this campaign
"He is 22 years old and he has the same skill factor as Pele and Maradona" https://www.theguardian.com/football/2007/apr/14/newsstory.sport Sir Alex Ferguson He has scored 700 goals since then
Today my list is (post-1960, only attackers): 1. Pele 2. Messi/Cruyff 3. Maradona 4. Fenomeno 5. Ronaldinho 6. Cristiano 7. Zico/Platini 8. Best/Garrincha 10. Zidane HM: Puskas, DiStefano, Neymar, Eusebio
Peak dribbling CR7 CL 2006/07> Any Ronaldinho CL season(fact) 82 - Lionel Messi has completed more dribbles in the CL this season than any other player since his debut. Magician. pic.twitter.com/hAtSfV872M— OptaJohan (@OptaJohan) June 6, 2015 Dribbles like this Benfica(home) Check others vs Roma 2006/07 (home and away) Benfica(away) with 14 succesful dribbles confirmed by opta Peak goalscoring Not even a discussion Ronaldinho La liga 2003-2008 48 non penalty goals in 145 la liga matches https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/ron...ewerb=ES1&pos=&minute=&pos=&torart=204&stand= Cristiano la liga 2014/15 48 la liga goals(35 matches) Ronaldinho (Whole career) 7 career hattricks https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/ronaldinho/meistetore/spieler/3373 Cristiano Ronaldo 2014/15 9 hattricks https://www.transfermarkt.pt/cristiano-ronaldo/leistungsdaten/spieler/8198/plus/1?saison=2014 Moving on... Peak freekick taking ability Ronaldinho 2004/05 to 2006/07 15 direct freekicks https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/ron...ttbewerb=&pos=&minute=&pos=&torart=207&stand= Cristiano Ronaldo 2007/08 to 2009/10 17 direct freekicks https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/cri...ttbewerb=&pos=&minute=&pos=&torart=207&stand= Peak Key passes Ronaldinho 2005 calender year La liga only 69 key passes 2997 minutes 2.01 key passes per 90 https://www.skysports.com/football/news/2358084/ronaldinho-better-than-lampard Cristiano Ronaldo 2010 calender year La liga only 87 key passes 3303 minutes played 2.37 key passes per 90 https://www.messivsronaldo.app/calendar-year-stats/2010/ Esm team of the month Ronaldinho 2005/06 7 ESM team of the month selections https://erubik.xyz/esm/player.php?id=Ronaldinho Cristiano Ronaldo 2011/12 8 ESM team of the month selections https://erubik.xyz/esm/player.php?id=Cristiano_Ronaldo Big matches Goals in major Semi finals/finals World cup European championship Copa America Champions league Copa libertadores Ronaldinho=0 goals Cristiano Ronaldo=19 goals 2 European championship SF goals 4 champions league final goals 13 CL SF goals Cristiano Ronaldo was greater then Ronaldinho before 2010 Afterwards its not even a legitimate comparison Ballon dors wins Ronaldinho 2005 Cristiano Ronaldo 2008 Ballon dor podium positions Ronaldinho 2004 Cristiano Ronaldo 2007 and 2009 Uefa team of the year 2001-2009 Ronaldinho 3 times Cristiano Ronaldo 4 times https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/UEFA_Team_of_the_Year Champions league MVP Ronaldinho 2005/06 Cristiano Ronaldo 2007/08 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/UEFA_Club_Footballer_of_the_Year Domestic league MVP Ronaldinho 2004/05 and 2005/06 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don_Balón Cristiano Ronaldo 2006/07 and 2007/08 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/PFA_Players'_Player_of_the_Year
@Tropeiro @Gregoire1 @PDG1978 @leadleader @celito Only thing missing is sound otherwise this is probably the most comprehensive compilation ive personally ever seen of Pele Over 1 hour long
Highest peaks in Europes Top 5 leagues since 2010 Calender year ratings January 1st to December 31st Lionel Messi 2012 calender year La liga Whoscored avg rating:8.99 https://www.messivsronaldo.app/calendar-year-stats/2012/ Lionel Messi 2010 calender year La liga Whoscored avg rating:8.96 https://www.messivsronaldo.app/calendar-year-stats/2010/ Lionel Messi 2015 calender year La liga Whoscored avg rating:8.82 https://www.messivsronaldo.app/calendar-year-stats/2015/ Cristiano Ronaldo 2014 calender year La liga Whoscored average rating:8.79 https://www.messivsronaldo.app/calendar-year-stats/2014/ Neymar jr 2017 calender year La liga/ligue 1 Whoscored avg rating: 8.79 Neymar is the star man in our European team of 2017, with the Brazil star excelling for both Barcelona and PSG over the calendar year pic.twitter.com/dNuu7YiZ4s— WhoScored.com (@WhoScored) January 2, 2018 Lionel Messi 2017 calender year La liga Whoscored avg rating: 8.73 https://www.messivsronaldo.app/calendar-year-stats/2017/ Lionel Messi 2018 calender year La liga Whoscored avg rating:8.64 https://www.messivsronaldo.app/calendar-year-stats/2018/ Lionel Messi 2011 calender year La liga Whoscored avg rating:8.62 https://www.messivsronaldo.app/calendar-year-stats/2011/ Lionel Messi 2020 calender year La liga Whoscored avg rating:8.54 https://www.messivsronaldo.app/calendar-year-stats/2020/ Lionel Messi 2014 calender year La liga Whoscored avg rating 8.52 Lionel Messi 2013 calender year La liga Whoscored avg rating:8.50 https://www.messivsronaldo.app/calendar-year-stats/2013/ Cristiano Ronaldo 2011 calender year La liga Whoscored avg rating:8.48 https://www.whoscored.com/Articles/...1-La-Liga-Player-and-Young-Player-of-the-Year Cristiano Ronaldo 2010 calender year La liga Whoscored avg rating:8.46 Lionel Messi 2019 calender year La liga Whoscored avg rating:8.44 https://www.messivsronaldo.app/calendar-year-stats/2019/ Cristiano Ronaldo 2013 calender year La liga Whoscored avg rating:8.32 Lionel Messi 2016 calender year La liga Whoscored avg rating 8.32 https://www.messivsronaldo.app/calendar-year-stats/2016/ Lionel Messi 2021 calender year La liga Whoscored avg rating 8.26 https://www.messivsronaldo.app/calendar-year-stats/2021/ Franck Ribery 2013 calender year Bundesliga Whoscored avg rating:8.25 Robert lewandowski 2020 calender year Bundesliga Whoscored avg rating: 8.17 https://www.whoscored.com/Articles/...nd-already-one-of-the-best-strikers-in-Europe Marco reus 2014 calender year Bundesliga Whoscored avg rating :8.08 Cristiano Ronaldo 2012 calender year La liga Whoscored avg rating:8.06 Cristiano Ronaldo 2016 calender year La liga Whoscored avg rating: 8.05 Cristiano Ronaldo 2018 calender year La liga/Serie A Whoscored avg rating:8.03 Kylian Mbappe 2020 calender year Ligue 1 Whoscored average rating:8.01 https://www.whoscored.com/Articles/...do-as-one-of-the-best-left-forwards-in-Europe Luis Suarez 2013 calender year I dont have a source for the whole year However Between january 1st and October 29th 2013 Luis Suarez averaged a Whoscored PL rating of 7.99 This doesnt include the 2 greatest months of his career though(November and December 2013) Id say he finishes the year around the 8.25 to 8.30 mark Slightly above the peak lewandowski territory https://1xbet.whoscored.com/Article.../Show/Player-Focus-The-Ballon-dWhoScored-2013 Xavi hernandez 2011 calender year La liga Whoscored avg rating 7.97 https://www.whoscored.com/Articles/...1-La-Liga-Player-and-Young-Player-of-the-Year Harry kane 2017 calender year Premier league Whoscored avg rating 7.97 Arjen robben 2014 calender year Bundesliga Whoscored avg league 7.93 Luis Suarez 2014 calender year Premier league/la liga Whoscored avg rating :7.92 GRAPHIC: Luis Suárez - ranks 5th in WhoScored’s top 100 http://t.co/rIe8eM9k8c pic.twitter.com/b5CNOQc1I3— WhoScored.com (@WhoScored) December 31, 2014 Robin van persie 2011 calendar year Premier league Whoscored avg rating:7.91 https://www.whoscored.com/Articles/...coreds-2011-Premier-League-Player-of-the-Year Eden hazard 2014 calender year Premier league Whoscored avg rating: 7.91 Will add to this when they release the ratings for the 2021 calender year If we use Messi 2012 as a reference point for the greatest a player has arguably ever been at domestic league level(8.99)for the duration of an entire year Where would classical players like diego Maradona,Cruyff,Muller,van basten,Zico,R9, etc fit in during their best ever years at domestic level Is it conceivable that anyone of those players averages 9/10 match ratings in every league match they play in a single year (because that's what Messi literally did in 2012) It tends to be forgotten how great marco reus was before his injury woes That Dortmund team with Błaszczykowski(underrated as f**k)Reus and lewandowski is even better then this current day Liverpool under Klopp IMO
I move down Maradona since he has been inconsistent after 1981 (his high of 1986 was a outlier in his carrer). I've a impression of Ronaldo fully fit pre-injuries (1996-7 to 1998-9), Cruyff (late 60s to mid-70s) and Messi (between 2009-10 and 2018-9) as second tier peaks. At least in terms of talent and dominance. Cristiano Ronaldo peaks goes only until 2011-2 or maybe 2012-3, I feel like he wasn't the same in 2013-4, at least in terms of athleticism and ball ability. 2012-3 you can see more flash of brillance in the second part of the season. Overall I would include his 2006-7 until 2012-3 then. Still third rate peak. I add Rivaldo between 1996 until the World Cup in 2002 I feel like he was a extremely gifted player, also very underrated. I think Rivaldo was at least on par with Ronaldinho and Neymar.
Neymar got some Calendar Year over 8.00 rating (acc Whoscored) in 2015 and 2016 too. In La Liga. Neymar between 2015-2018/19 was a excellent player. Still is, but lost a bit of pace and much of his goalscoring ability nowadays, so he is less of a threat. Also injuries. Nowadays he isn't better than Ronaldinho 2003-2006. Btw in many ways if you watch the comps (even from pre-season) you can perceive how much close in terms of level Ronaldinho 03/04 was compared to Neymar's 17/18. Neymar maybe had mental advantages with Ronaldinho reaching even higher peaks in terms of technical resources and execution. Physical about the same I would say, with Neymar a bit more agile and Ronaldinho stronger. Both very fast and elastic.
@leadleader Are you a fluent Spanish speaker? If so could you translate the beneficial parts of this documentary in your free time
This is my list 1- Pele 1963 2- Pele 1962 3-Messi 2012 4-Messi 2011 5- Pele 1961 6- Maradona 1986 7-Cruyff 1974 8- Di Stefano 1960 9-Maradona 1980 10- Ronaldo 1997 I think Pele and Messi are the best because they combine a lot of goals and assists. But Pele was an athletic animal and had more attitude. Maradona 86 was the best individual performance in the World Cup. Cruyff made Barcelona reborn in the year of the great campaign in world cup 74. Di Stefano's games in the 60's UCL (against nice and frankfurt) available on footbalia are impressive. I really like Maradona in Argentina pre-drugs and Ronaldo Nazario before injuries.
Messi 2012 doesn't even deserve to be in the top 15 1-Pele 1963 2-Messi 2011 3-Maradona 1986 4-Cruyff 1972 5-Cruyff 1974 6-Messi 2015 7-Pele 1962 8-Maradona 1980 9-Pele 1965 10- Di Stefano 1957
In a short international tournament Maradona wc 86 (5g/5a from 14): 71% Platini euro 84 (9g/1a from 14): 71% Messi copa america 21 (4g/5a from 13): 69% Pelé wc 70 (4g/6a from 19): 52% Suarez copa america 2011 (4g/2a from 9): 66% ....
.. Bebeto Copa america 89 (6g/1a from 11): 63% Batistuta Copa America 91 (6g/0a from 11): 54% Aristizábal Copa América 01 (6g/0a from 11): 54% Adriano Copa América 04 (7g/0a from 13): 54%
short international tournament 1-maradona 86 2-cruyff 74 3-platini euro 84 4-pele 58 5-eusebio 66 6-pele 70 7-garrincha 1962 8-jairzinho 1970 9-didi 1958 10-van basten euro 88 short club tournament 1-messi 11 2-messi 15 3-cruyff 72 4-pele 62 5-zico 81 6-pele 63 7-platini 85 8-di stefano 59 9-ronaldo 17 10-pele 65
Post-ww2 1-Pele 1963 2-Cruyff 1974 3-Cruyff 1972 4-Messi 2015 5-Pele 1961 6-Messi 2011 7-Pele 1962 8-Pele 1965 9-Maradona 1980 10-Di Stefano 1957 11-Platini 1984 12-Maradona 1986 13-Messi 2012 14-Beckenbauer 1974 15-Di Stefano 59 16-Cruyff 1971 17-Puskas 1953 18-Zico 1981 19-Pele 1958 20-Platini 1985 21-Eusebio 1965 22-Eusebio 1966 23-G Best 1968 24-C Ronaldo 2012 25-Nazario 1997 26-Yashin 1963 27-G Muller 1972 28-Beckenbauer 1972 29-Maradona 1985 30-Pele 1970 31-Garrincha 1962 32-kopa 1958 33-Didi 1958 34-Maradona 1981 35-Maradona 1979 36-Zico 1979 37-Cruyff 1973 38-Pele 1959 39-Van Basten 1989 40-Platini 1983
Today my list is (post-1960, only attackers): 1a. Pele 1b. Messi 3. Maradona/Cruyff 4. Fenomeno 5. Ronaldinho 6. Cristiano 7. Zico/Platini 8. Best/Garrincha 10. Zidane HM: Puskas, DiStefano, Neymar, Eusebio, Mbappe
there is no way that Pele without WC had better peak than Messi. If You take 58-65 then he had Overall Messi is better than Pele, he is the greatest based on combination of peak & longevity & skills & titles
Your calculations are way off the mark I just wasted my time watching this again to answer your question accurately He dribbled off the sideline one time ALL match at the 2:48 mark Most of his dribbles were in the midfield and few around the box He completed 8 OPTA dribbles(9 Total dribbles inc attempts) 2 non penalty goals 1 assist 2 pre assists out of 7 team goals https://www.mykhel.com/amphtml/foot...-break-man-utd-7-1-win-remembered-165745.html Or maybe I misunderstood you as in why does he always dribble off the pitch when he’s hugging the touch line (which would be even more inaccurate and astonishingly false) Cristiano 2007 is the GOAT wing player and if he failed on the wing nobody ever succeeded A season worthy of being deemed a historical peak Context Out of 124 seasons played in the English top flight 2006/07 was the 3rd most defensive season of all time The top two were in the 1970s The 4th was in 1923/24 And the 5th was in 2008/09 https://www.worldfootball.net/stats/eng-premier-league/1/ Notice how this tweet was posted by OPTA in October 2012. 727 - Kevin Davies is the most fouled player in the last 10 Premier League seasons, ahead of @Cristiano 500. Bruised. #AskOpta @dclark0— OptaJoe (@OptaJoe) October 5, 2012 Cristiano had left the league in May 2009 and he was still the 2nd most fouled player between 2002 and 2012 He wasn’t even a professional footballer for most of 2002 and joined Manchester United at the end of 2003!!! So that’s literally 4 seasons where he wasn’t even in the league but still occupies 2nd position When he was there He was the most fouled player in the league by a distance and in the most defensive era of English football where fouls were not penalised the way they are today especially with VAR https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/22253531.amp That is to say those 500 fouls won are not even a true representation of the punishment he was receiving Through this prism alone can you fully appreciate the end product and dribbling runs he was producing and displayed below What qualifies as historical peak for a Complete attacker Producing the most important goals than any other player Being available for all the important matches as durability is required and key for a defined peak Producing the most assists than any other player Producing the most dribbles than any other player Being unanimously perceived as the clear and undisputed best player in your position https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/premier-league/gamewinners/wettbewerb/GB1/plus/?saison_id=2006 This is the same Drogba who had a legendary 5 ESM monthly positions in 2006/07 Zidane,Figo,nedved, Henry and rivaldo never had more than 5 monthly ESM selections in single season (and Zidane is the only one from those names who did it twice) And when the premier league became more friendly towards attacking players he scored 29 non premier league goals recording one the highest whoscored league ratings of all time(excluding Messi,Ronaldo and Neymar Jr) That is who cristiano was competing with An elite striker who played like him in one of the most defensive leagues of all time. And of course we can talk about his legendary ability to impact big matches(namely finals) Assists https://www.transfermarkt.com/most-assists-per-season-since-2000-01/index/galerie/1024?page=7 An assist is the action directly preceding a goal and I agree with this definition even if transfermarket has someone like Thomas Müller or Luis Suarez with more career assists than Cristiano Ronaldo because I am consistent After stating the number(which is a fact) we can discuss things like the quality/nature of the assists and which players were being assisted For a large portion of his career Luis Suarez was assisting/being assisted by who many here believe to be the best finisher of all time in Messi that is Messi who is also supposedly the playmaker equivalent of Diego maradona Messi of course recorded his highest scoring seasons before the arrival of Luis Suarez and his remarkable/inflated assisting ability anyways(2011/12 & 2012/13) This can be discussed elsewhere Elite dribbling ability within the context of his time 82 - Lionel Messi has completed more dribbles in the CL this season than any other player since his debut. Magician. pic.twitter.com/hAtSfV872M— OptaJohan (@OptaJohan) June 6, 2015 This was achieved in the prime era of Ronaldinho Gaúcho and Ricardo kaka 2004-2007 Ronaldinho being the supposed most technical player ever and of course kaka factually being one of the most devasting ball carriers who ever lived No point comparing his dribbling numbers to players in a different era of football You are compared to the players of your time facing the exact same conditions Cristiano Ronaldo 2006/07 is Historically and factually one of the most dominant seasons of all time I genuinely Can’t think of a single season Diego maradona had being this dominant. Even Including his penalties,including his wide assists and including his handballs maradona was never at any point of his career deciding the most games with his goals,providing the most assists in Europe(opta or wide) and completing the most dribbles in the UEFA Cup/European cup in the same season For me that is dominance and worthy of being called a historical peak He did it over 7 games granted But for Barcelona/Napoli/Seville this never happened There’s been a lot talk regarding the recently passed Pelé(his peak where it ranks vs Messi,Maradona etc) When you are scoring more than twice the amount of the next best player and still people are doubtful at how dominant he was I find this mind state very tragic indeed You can shit on this or say “well maradona wasn’t a striker so this is meaningless” Pele was? Let’s assume he was Did maradona ever produce twice as many assists as the next best assister in Serie A? I looked at the numbers so I know the answer is probably not Maradona had 10 assists in Serie A 89/90 Lothar matthaues had 8 in the same league campaign In Serie A 1984/85 maradona had 9 assists or so(I could be wrong) Michel platini 84/85 had 20 assists in all competitions I’ve seen for juventus I’d be very surprised if less then 5 of those was in Serie A Did the supposed greatest dribbler ever produce more solo goals in Serie A than Roberto baggio did playing for Fiorentina(on the fringes of relegation more often than not) Did maradona ever display a level across a 40-50 game season where he was the undisputed best of his league I also have major objections about regarding the dominant peak of R9 1996/97 Does anyone even mention the striker Mijatović finished 2nd place in the 1997 ballon dor(with 14 la liga goals) His best season was probably if not definitely the season prior(everything I’ve looked at points to this) Even in his own country he wasn’t voted the best in 1997 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serbian_Footballer_of_the_Year The player who wasn’t even perceived as the best player in his own country during 1997 is the player Ronaldo Nazário pipped to the ballon dor How does Ronaldo Nazário fare competing in the same league and time as prime versions of Hugo Sanchez or Romário de Souza I very much doubt his dominance would be so overwhelming